Opinions on used V70 XC? (service history included)

[amonti]

Hello everyone,

Excellent board - if I purchase a Volvo, I'll be sure to pick up some stickers!

I'm thinking about purchasing a 01 V70 XC from a Volvo dealer (I put a refundable down payment on it). The car is just off-lease, the body and interior are in great shape, and I have the maintenance history, but I'm not sure how to interpret the work performed. Either the previous owner was very diligent (and possibly drove hard), or the car is suspect. Price-wise, it is similar to other used XCs of the same age and condition. As it is from a Volvo dealer, the warranty is extended another year, but I'm not sure if I should extend beyond that. Any guess as to what work could possibly be next?

Any advice from any experienced members would be appreciated. I'm not adverse to fixing the Volvo myself (even beyond replacing light bulbs, if required), but I'd rather not have to.

Thanks in advance!


Date: 7-Mar-05
KMs: 79,878
Miles: 49,634
Repairs:
- Bulb tail lamp

Date: 16-Feb-05
KMs: 78,993
Miles: 49,084
Repairs:
- None - Power Sear Memory Complaint
- Oil, lube, and filter
- Turbocharger oil return line gasket replacement
- Replace lower left ball joint
- Coolant fan replacement - Campaign 141

Date: 28-Oct-04
KMs: 74,423
Miles: 46,244
Repairs:
- 72,000 KM service

Date: 24-Jun-04
KMs: 64,991
Miles: 40,384
Repairs:
- Summerize
- Updated firmware - 36004-2 CEM1A52
- Engine mounting/torque arm replace
- Bulb license place replace
- Replace lower right ball joint

Date: 12-Feb-04
KMs: 57,172
Miles: 35,525
Repairs:
- 48K service
- Replace rear anti-roll bar links
- Long crank times (new plug corrected the problem)
- Adjusted all wiper arms with Volvo tool
- Replace front pads
- Replace front anti-roll bar links

Date: 12-Nov-03
KMs: 50,236
Miles: 31,215
Repairs:
- Oil, lube, and filter

Date: 19-Aug-03
KMs: 46,133
Miles: 28,666
Repairs:
- Replace headlight bulb

Date: 18-Jun-03
KMs: 41,898
Miles: 26,034
- Replace front control arm rear bushings

Date: 29-May-03
KMs: 40,253
Miles: 25,012
- Replace both rear dirt deflector links
- Oil, lube, and filter

Date: 21-Feb-03
KMs: 31,002
Miles: 19,264
Repair:
- Replace bulbs

Date: 3-Dec-02
KMs: 26,885
Miles: 16,706
Repairs:
- Automatic Transmission repair (?)
- Replace bulbs
- Replace left front stabilizer link
- Replace radio
- 24K Service

Date: 13-Jun-02
KMs: 17,074
Miles: 10,609
Repairs:
- 12K inspection
- Service operations
- Replace rear stabilizer bar link

Date: 25-Mar-02
KMs: 10,366
Miles: 6,441
Repairs:
- Repair speedometer (reads 10% high)
- Fix power door locks

Date: 28-Jan-02
KMs: 6,989
Miles: 4,343
Repairs:
- Oil, lube, and filter

[amonti]

Thanks to all who have read my post - I don't mean to be a leech! Maybe a more specific question would help...

If I am going to purchase the 01 V70XC, should I be concerned with the car given following suspension work that has been performed in the past:

Replace lower left ball joint
Engine mounting/torque arm replace
Replace lower right ball joint
Replace rear anti-roll bar links
Replace front anti-roll bar links
Replace front control arm rear bushings
Replace both rear dirt deflector links
Replace left front stabilizer link
Replace rear stabilizer bar link

Also note that I've been a BMW driver for many years, but would certainly love to own a good Volvo!

Thanks,
Andrew.

[DonWillson]

It does not show that the ETM has been replaced. Your mileage is getting up in the range when it is subject to failure.The replacement is about $1000 and a throttle body cleaning will not fix the problem though it may delay it. See the thread at http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6026

If you get a third party warranty read the fine print very carefully as to what and what is not coverec. See if you can get an extended warranty on this specific item.

Don Willson
[email protected]

[amonti]

Thanks for the heads-up Don. I didn't realize that the ETM problems could actually place your car into 'disabled' mode. I also saw Volvo's service bulletin, and the California class action lawsuit on Volvo's 'secret warranty'. I guess if I asked for the 'free' throttle body cleaning, I could possibly delay the onset of the ETM problem.

I'm curious though - is the car I'm looking at guaranteed to have this problem at some point, or have some owners with the 'faulty' ETM driven 100,000 miles+ without any problems?

I took a look at the car again today (Sunday) on the lot while the dealer was closed. For all the suspension work, the underbody of the car seems to be in remarkable shape, although I now know that the tires are original and will need replacing (all four), plus the right rear disc is badly scored. One thing I did notice was a thick greasy buildup on 1/2 the gas tank - it dried up as you moved closer to the front of the tank. It didn't smell like gas, so I looked under a 2005 model - and saw the same thing! It must be some sort of factory undercoating - any ideas?

- Andrew

[Edmonds17]

I'm afraid the throttle body problem is more serious than you think.

Some owners report not being able to restart the engine at all when the Fiat throttle body defect occurs.

If you are able to get into limp-in mode, then you still have a problem. How far will you have to drive to get to a Volvo dealer? I was lucky. I was able to drive 30 miles back to town in good weather on surface roads to get to a Volvo dealer. Happened when I was out travelling so I spent the weekend in Modesto, CA. You may not be so lucky.

What would happen if you had to limp-in in sub-zero weather on rural roads? Not a fun thought.

Volvo simply doesn't understand how difficult/dangerous it is to be stuck in "limp-in" mode in a rural area. When I complained, Volvo "Customer Care" said it was my "fault for chosing to live in a rural area." (?)

You might be better off looking at a '98 or earlier model that does not have the Fiat throttle body defect.

Edmonds17

[amonti]

Thanks for the heads-up on the seriousness of the problem. I certainly am concerned, seeing as my Wife will primarily be driving the car with our children (although almost exlusively within a few miles of the Volvo dealer). Not that there's any excuse for Volvo to blame you for, "living in a rural area"!

If it were just myself, I wouldn't be so worried, since I acutally owned serveral Fiats with Marelli parts over the years (128, X/19, Spider) and am used to being stuck!

So, is a proactive approach recommended (i.e. replacing the ETM without a failure), and can the Marelli version be replaced with the slightly better Bosch unit? Is there any easy way to measure the resistance of the ETM pots through the throttle plate's full travel and compare to known values to check for early wear (I doubt that the wear on the trace is perfectly even)? I would have thought that someone would have come up with a way to repace the 'wiper arm' design (which is crude, at best), with a wire-wound pot of the same rating, or even a small electronic interface to output the proper values based on a conversion value from better pots. I've built some custom modules before (mainly to avoid $1000 BMW parts), but I'd be hard pressed to find the time now with a young family!

[amonti]

Ok, I just read Don's PDF analysis of dead ETMs - what a fantastic and thorough job! I'll be sure to take that information down to the dealer when I negotiate and see if they will replace the ETM before it fails (at least factor the replacement cost into the price). Regardless, given Don's commitment to having Volvo address the problem, it may not be long before Volvo is forced replace the unit regardless!

[amonti]

Ok, so I purchased the car (and will buy stickers after this post), but I have to make a warranty decision. I've read all of the threads I could find on extended warranty, but I don't think there ever was a concensus on exactly what is and isn't covered. I had the dealer write in the that ETM (specifically) will be covered (at least) under the additional one-year CPO warranty, but there seems to be some confusion as to what is covered, and for how long.

My dealer has offered the Volvo extended warranty to take the car's warranty out an additional two years (three years, including the CPO warranty) for $1,312CDN (approx $1,000US) with a $50 deductible. Is this worthwhile/recommended? Based on what I've read, I think so, but I still have some questions:
- the brochure lists many, many covered parts; are less and less parts covered under years 2 and 3?
- Does the warranty cover labor?
- If multiple covered components fail on the same visit, do you have to pay the deductible for each?

I have CAA/AAA coverage, so I'm not too interested in the OnCall features.

On the back of the brochure, it says: "Components listed in summary for example only. See your retailer for specific details of coverage, as well as terms and conditions." Does anyone have these documents in electronic format that could be posted?

Thanks,
Andrew.

[4033]

I had just asked my service dealer the same question about what is covered under my Volvo Certified extended warranty. My warranty has a $50 deductible and extends the warranty to 100k for 6 years from the 1st day it’s titled.

Most MAJOR parts are covered but things like sensors and such vary. I just had a rev sensor replaced under the original factory warranty and the exhaust clamp to stop the exhaust from hitting the driveshaft. I asked if such repairs would be covered under the extended warranty. Here is his reply:

“Unfortunately I can not provide you 100% answer on each item in the car. What we have to do here with service contracts if first determine what is needed then call in to the Volvo claims center. They look at the customer’s individual contract then provide approval depending on coverage. I can tell you it does not cover the car 100% like the factory warranty from Volvo. Items such as trim, lights, exhaust, etc... are not covered in general.

Sensors depend a lot on what system of the car and also the exact sensor unit being addressed. Sorry for the clear as mud answer but we can only go by what the claims center tells us. The contracts do provide major competent coverage on the car but not all individual items are covered in every system. Hope that provides somewhat an answer…too many variables just to guess. The recent repairs you had the rpm sensor would have been covered but not the exhaust repairs.
Thanks,
Steve”

[amonti]

Thanks for the note Steve - at least I'm not the only one who can't seem to get a straight answer on what is and isn't covered. What I didn't list below from the maintenance history were the charges. Anything that had a $0.00 associated with it was covered under warranty. Anything with a cost beside it was non-warranty work.

Yes, the speedometer work was covered, and so was most of the other non-maintenance work. I was really surprised to find charges beside the transmission work (about $350). I asked the service manager what that was, and he mentioned some sort of modulator valve unit or control unit (I don't know - I've always driven standard). Strange that it wouldn't have been covered.

The warranty booklet does not mention emission control at all - which (apparently) is where the sensor is categorized. Is also doesn't mention the viscous coupling.

On a non-warranty related note, I found out that the tires are the original Scorpions, and they've lasted 80K (50,000 miles) only because the owner used a separate set of winter tires (he kept the winter tires for his new XC70). I've read all the posts on winter tire use, and (again) there is not real consensus. I need to buy new tires before winter, but now I'm not sure if I should pick up a set of winter tires and steel rims, or buy a set of Scorpion GTRs. Winter driving here is usually icy, so I'm not sure how well the Scorpions will hold up. I tried to drive my summer Pirellis in the winter with my BMW, and quickly purchased winter tires and rims - the "all-season' Pirelli tires didn't seem to do the trick in winter (for a rear-wheel drive car).

My Wife is also asking about remote car starters, and it seems like the group has decided that they are a bad idea on a V70 XC, since it very difficult to guarantee that the starter won't 'interfere' with the rest of the car's remote capabilities and electronics (which seem to be rather 'flakey' in the first place). Not to mention the 'massive' amount of wiring these cars seem to have.

Thanks again,
Andrew.