"Auto-stick" gear shift

**Gundo** · 09-11-2002, 07:46 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">   And I hate to tell you this, but I think a number of marques were running automatics at Le Mans 24hr. a few years back.  I know for sure that Porsche was... [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

well, not exactly...

the comparison you are trying to make is an interesting one, but flawed.  racecars are often equipped with paddle-shift type transmissions - but these are not the press-and-go automatics. the Porsche 962 did run a Tiptronic transmission at LeMans in 1994 - but the car cost over $850,000 and had an extremely advanced transmission that is comparable to nothing we could street.  

These transmissions are significantly more advanced and expensive than anything Volvo is willing to run in a $40,000 car.  In fact, there is hydraulic actuation that engages/disengages and actual clutch/friction disk arrangement.  The only consumer car you can buy with a similar setup is the BMW M3 with the SMG gearbox.

And yes, a 2002 Porsche 911 Turbo ($154,000 is offered for the the first time with a 5-speed Tiptronic S automatic transmission with manual shifting buttons on the steering wheel spokes. The Tiptronic S in the Turbo is the most advanced Tiptronic transmission yet developed. While the previous version had 10 mapping programs, this version has 150 mapping programs - in other words, it's designed to adapt to whatever conditions the vehicle is being driven in, and to the driver's driving style.

Finally, to say the Volvo Geartronic is anything more than an electronically shifted old-school slushbox automatic is to highlight capabilities it doesn't have.

**Craig** · 09-11-2002, 08:51 AM

I like the GearTronic.  I'm normally a manual transmission type, but this car doesn't have one.  Here in the mountains, we use it quite often.  Driving on remote "roads" getting to trailheads it is quite convenient.  Main use of course is to utilize engine braking for downhill grades, which we do daily here.

Volvo has done a very good job with the ergonomics of the geartronic.  It is located in an easily accessed place and is comfortable to use.  Only criticism is that it does indeed seem to be "backwards" in terms of forward or back for downshift and upshift.  But I got used to that fairly quickly.  It becomes very smooth to use once you have some experience with it and with rev matching.

Haven't used the "winter" mode yet.  As someone else pointed out, it just starts you in 2nd or 3rd gear to reduce torque if you're stuck.  I haven't been stuck yet.  You can't get to 2nd or 3rd when completely stopped with the geartronic because it automatically downshifts you to 1st after a couple seconds.

Overall, I give it high marks.

           Craig in Colorado

**d2gxc** · 09-11-2002, 11:03 AM

My take on the Geartronic is pretty much the same as Craig's. As he says, the main use is definitely to provide downhill engine breaking.

It's curious that most of us "manual transmission types" seem to feel it works backwards. I suppose it's because (as was pointed out in an earlier post), one is used to pulling back to go from 1st to 2nd. Yet one pushes forward to go from 2nd to 3rd, and 4th to 5th. Maybe it's because these actions also involve a lateral shift that the Geartronic doesn't have, so we instinctively associate it with the inline shifts 1st to 2nd, and 3rd to 4th.

None the less, I think Volvo does have it the right way round. Automatic users would not be subject to this "pre-programming", and it is probably more intuitive to them that you would push forward to go faster and pull back to go slower (as would be the case going downhill)!

In any case, if you look (and I only just noticed this recently), you'll find there's a legend on the thing that clearly shows which way is "+" and which way is "-".

**cbob** · 09-11-2002, 03:27 PM

I think Gundo has pegged it pretty well when he mentions the cost of "real" automatic shifters. Right on.

If you want an auto that shifts like a competition car, you're not going to get it in a vehicle in the Volvo price range.
And "competition station wagon" might be a bit of an oxymoron anyway, although I did once own a Torino wagon with a 351 Cleveland /four barrel.

If you want a close-ratio gearbox with electronic rev-matching synchros, buy a Ferrari or something.

I don't thing the comments about what the geartronic *doesn't do* are justified though. It works about as well as other automatics, and the ability to put it into the *current* gear from "drive", instead of (as mentioned) "just shifting to other gears" is pretty good - ex. many auto shifters just have a straight D-4-3-2-1 pattern. Try getting from D3 to 2nd without going through 4th.

Have only about 12y auto experience vs almost 30y with sticks, but I don't see much that Volvo is doing wrong here.
Beats the other autos I've owned (Ford, Chrysler, M-B, Bendix) anywho.

Michael

**Gundo** · 09-12-2002, 06:32 AM

Hey CBob - I had a '73 Torino (in 1988&#33

4 door in two-tone vomit brown.  What a great care for college - we had lots of fun, but could fit no more than 13 people in it at one time.  I loved that motor - so simple & powerful at the same time...

**wiz** · 09-12-2002, 10:24 AM

I had a cat once called Vomit Mulligan.

Nice cat, terrible name.  Called him Vom for short.

I think the reason the Geartronic works the way it does may be a carryover from earlier Volvo automatics like the 240 & 740. They had a gearbox that went something like:

P
R
N
D
2
1

So if you were in the lowest gear, you moved the gearstick away from you to go to a higher gear...

And Gundo, I wasn't suggesting that the Porsche racer was using a street gearbox. I'm aware that racing cars rarely use street components - just that they were using the concept...

**Far Side** · 09-12-2002, 01:21 PM

If your a serious car driver and are used to sticks the geartronic is the closest thing to getting maximum performace out of your XC. Its clearly better than not having one and not a gimmick. In a major "sacrifice" for the familly I just traded my 2 seater and took a deposit off of a brand new Boxster "S". My only miniscule piece of sanity of such a trade was the EXTREEMLY minor releive of having almost a stick to max the XC. In terms of engine braking and maxing acceleration up the gears.. this thing works.

Of course my salesperson almost blew the sale when he scoffed during the test ride.. "oh that thing (geartron).. its just a toy really". Idiot had me almost running to the Audi untill I worked the GTron with some sense of satisfaction. For engine braking alone in the mountains this is worth it. I'm so desperate I would have probably paid for this option.

Not a mircle stick.. but better than a vanilla automatic!!

--Bob

**Far Side** · 09-12-2002, 01:26 PM

D2-- oh yeah.. I can not get the real shift pattern out of my head and often mishift this thing.. since this XC is not my everday car but the wife's...  Throwing to 3rd gear in the mind screws you up badly.

**pico de luuks** · 09-12-2002, 01:50 PM

Interesting to see so many different reactions on the GT. Personally I have some mixed feelings. I like the automatic during city traffic crawling along and when driving along with wife and kids taking it easy....

However I do miss the action and involvement of manual shifting and I don't consider the GT a real alternative. But since you can't have both this is as good as it gets.
I do agree there with Gundo that upshifting takes too long and is sometimes unpleasant for the passenger.  

Despite that I still use quite often just for the action and Fun. I try to optimize the shifting points, but the delay makes that hard.
Hey, I could have opted for the 5 speed when I ordered, but chose the lazy way.  

Would I choose it again? probably not

**Gundo** · 09-13-2002, 06:45 AM

ok, I think we can all agree, the autostick is nice for hill descent engine braking....

but, I pose this challenge:

I'll bet that our 0 to 75 mph acceleration time is faster with automatic engaged than if you tried to do the same test by shifting the autostick. the autostick upshifts are very slow, especially when trying to upshift at high rpms..

I'm gonna try this weekend, and I'll post the results...