Cam seal went what to do next ???

[seth1065]

hey folks I have a 01 xc wagon w 183,000 miles on her, 2 owner , tranny replaced at 120,000 , fluid change at 150,000, car is in good shape, my daughter uses it now so not driven a lot, over the weekend she was driving lost power and oil all over the place, I had it flat bedded to my indie and today he told me the cam seal/gasket broke, oil all over TB, so new seals/ gasket, new TB, new water pump about $1300, my question is why did the gasket/seal fail, age, mileage? Oil changes down every 5,000 miles or once a year , the car sits a decent amount these days. I have very receipt from when car was new and it has been taken care of so I think I will put the money into it and hope it gets my daughter through undergrad. Any other suggestions to be done while indie is in there, thanks

[Xfingers]

Most blown cam seals are result of a clogged PCV system. Since air, oily gases cannot circulate freely thru PCV hoses, pressure builds up in engine crankcase and pushes out cam/crank seal(s). Replace PCV system or possibly run the risk that you will lose oil again in the near future. Here's my experience:
http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showth...lost+oil+today

At 183k miles, if PCV has never been replaced on your XC, it's LOOOOOOONG overdue. Have you been using synthetic oil? Widespread opinion is that dino oil is big contributor to PCV blockage!

[Astro14]

+1 on what Xfingers said.

Generally, clogged PCV is the root cause. So, unless you want to repeat the job in a few months, add $600 for replacing all the PCV parts and cleaning the block to oil pan passages as part of the job.

My XC spit out a cam seal two years ago. I did everything that your Indy is proposing...plus the PCV system with all new parts. Been good since. My V70 got a new PCV system at 170,000 and it looked decent inside, but the peace of mind (avoiding the breakdown, and the subsequent expense of new timing set, as well as the PITA factor of those cam seals) was absolutely worth it.

Make certain that the block to oil pan passages are cleared up as part of your PCV job. Some guys remove the oil pan to ensure that job is completely done. I did it from the top/block side, but that's a critical step.

It's not Dino oil that causes this - it's running an oil past the point where it becomes acidic. When the additives can no longer maintain the Ph of the oil, combustion byproducts cause acid formation, and those acids create sludge. More importantly than base stock source (Dino, blend, hydro cracked, PAO) is the specification - the standards that the oil meets. Oil is 25% additive and that chemistry determines how long an oil can run.

For more, see here: http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showth...19629-Oil-Rant

I've done used oil analysis on my XC. Even a long drain synthetic that meets European specs is done by 7,500 miles in my wife's car. That's a combination of use pattern and engine demands placed on the oil.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=2288158

So, unless you are doing UOAs to validate your oil's performance, you should up the oil specification and shorten your oil change interval.

[01_Nautic_V70]

I'm guessing the glove test would be meaningless as a way to check pcv health given the big leak at the camshaft seal?

[JeffHicks]

I know that a clogged PCV system is typically the root cause of blown cam seals, but that's not always the case.

I blew the front intake cam seal on my '02 XC. I decided to replace only the seal, in case there were deeper issues that would cost more to fix than the car was worth. I also did the crude "latex glove of the oil filler" test, and the engine seemed to have no pressure build-up.

That was 2 years and 20,000 miles ago that I replaced only seal. Everything else seems to be fine. Go figure.

[seth1065]

Thanks for the info I checked and the PCV system was done at the 120,000 service, a new tb was done at 147,000, I am using regular oil but get it changed when it is supposed, I have no issue with synthetic but was told not to switch this late in the life of the engine. So with that info do you still suggest having the PCV stuff done, I am having my daughter pay for this as it is her car but do not want to put 1300 into a car and have this happen again.

Most blown cam seals are result of a clogged PCV system. Since air, oily gases cannot circulate freely thru PCV hoses, pressure builds up in engine crankcase and pushes out cam/crank seal(s). Replace PCV system or possibly run the risk that you will lose oil again in the near future. Here's my experience:
http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showth...lost+oil+today

At 183k miles, if PCV has never been replaced on your XC, it's LOOOOOOONG overdue. Have you been using synthetic oil? Widespread opinion is that dino oil is big contributor to PCV blockage!

[Astro14]

If you've been using Dino oil...and "changing it when it is supposed"...what does that mean? Every year? Every 7,500 miles? More? Less?

Based on my used oil analysis, every 7,500 miles would be WAY past the useful life of a regular oil if your car is driven like my wife's. You could easily have a plugged up PCV system as a result of running the oil too long.

Does your Indy have a manometer and does he know how to check both the regular and boost circuit of the PCV? If he can verify that the PCV is OK, then, and only then, can you skip the PCV replacement.

Whoever told you that you can't switch to synthetic "this late in the car's life" is ignorant when it comes to oil.

So, going forward: change the WP and timing set when you do the seals.

Verify PCV operation. If you can't, then replace the whole thing.

Adjust your oil choice and your change interval to preclude future PCV system damage and another seal failure. Oil is cheap. Cam seals are cheap, too, but the labor and expense are substantial. Read through the links I provided. Educate yourself on oil. There is a lot more to the chemistry of additives than viscosity.

[seth1065]

I change the oil from 4000-5000 miles or a year ( sometimes the car is driven less than 3,000 miles a year. Thanks for the info I will read up on it.

[Astro14]

FWIW - my Mercedes can easily go 10,000 miles on the Mobil 1 0W40 that I use in it. That's based on an oil analysis that I do for that car on every change. So, I'm not advocating blindly changing oil early.

It's just my experience, and the experience of many who post here, that this Volvo engine depletes oil quickly. Volvo North America really hosed a lot of Volvo owners on the early 2000s by telling its dealers to use Castrol blend for 7,500 - 10,000 mile oil changes. While Castrol makes many fine products, that oil wasn't up to this challenge, leaving thousands of sludged up engines in our cars' vintage.

Many of them still suffer, from continued poor oil practices, or from lack of PCV system repair, or from poorly executed PCV system repair.

There are lots of good things about Volvos...this isn't one of them...

[Xfingers]

seth1065, regarding the PCV work done at 120,000, do you have details? Was it replacement of entire system with multiple hoses and catch canister or just the main PCV hose? If the latter, you could have blockages in other parts of the system. Couple thoughts off the top of my head: If money isn't big issue, get PCV done and know that the kid won't have this problem raise its ugly head in the future. If your daughter does a lot of long distance driving, you don't want her running out of oil somewhere not to mention potential damage to engine. If she just drives locally and pays attention to dashboard warning messages, you could try driving without PCV replacement and see what happens. Maybe ask the shop what the cost will be if you replace PCV along with other prescribed repairs as opposed to bringing in later and doing standalone (although if you bring it in again because of blown seal you'd have to add in that repair cost and possible towing). Maybe if you waffle a little bit and say "Jeez, should I get it done now or wait and see what happens, hmmm...hey, if you guys can knock off $50 ($100?), I'll get it done now."