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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    GA
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    1,420

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    Quote Originally Posted by kef View Post
    Fuel pump solenoid does comes on, I can hear pump(s) working,
    Solenoid? If you have a fuel pressure sensor on your injector rail there is no solenoid or relay for the fuel pump on your 2005. There is a controller, but it's electronic, and makes no noise.

    Your fuel system electrical items:

    Fuel pressure sensor, ECM, fuel pump controller (PEM), and the fuel pump. The controller runs the fuel pump as needed to maintain the correct fuel pressure. The fuel pump does not run at full speed all the time like earlier systems did.

    Controller's can go bad, early cars had them mounted to the right side of the gas tank subject to corrosion - later they were moved to under the back seat.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Upstate, NY
    Posts
    72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xfingers View Post
    kef, do you need to go back and check the work on your new fuel pump install? I don't have experience (yet) with the fuel pump operation but maybe something didn't get hooked up correctly?
    X: I think I will do that. I am pretty sure that I reconnected the 2 tubes and wirings as before (on the right side of the tank). I also made sure that the spring-loaded fuel inlet in left side of the tank is placed properly with the single wiring (level sensor) connected. I can hear the pump(s) whirring during and post ignition. I'll see what I can do... and zone in to see if the pumps are 'trying' to push fuel out... Yes, carefully!

    Interestingly, taking the seat back rests off is most of the work.

    Thanks!

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Upstate, NY
    Posts
    72

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoonk View Post
    Solenoid? If you have a fuel pressure sensor on your injector rail there is no solenoid or relay for the fuel pump on your 2005. There is a controller, but it's electronic, and makes no noise.

    Your fuel system electrical items:

    Fuel pressure sensor, ECM, fuel pump controller (PEM), and the fuel pump. The controller runs the fuel pump as needed to maintain the correct fuel pressure. The fuel pump does not run at full speed all the time like earlier systems did.

    Controller's can go bad, early cars had them mounted to the right side of the gas tank subject to corrosion - later they were moved to under the back seat.
    Hoonk: Sorry, I meant to say "relay" rather than solenoid. I could activate the relay via DICE as ON/OFF. Thanks for the correction and additional info!

    Now, I'm thinking the fuel pump controller (PEM) is probably the culprit. And yes, on mine the PEM is outside right close to fuel filter. Frankly, I was hoping for some interaction with the PEM using DICE to troubleshoot its functionality. Not sure what I can do really. At least, I can start by disconnecting the electrical connection, clean and re-seat it. So, The PEM as source of my problem is my next plan of action.

    Thank you!

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    1,420

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    Quote Originally Posted by kef View Post
    I could activate the relay via DICE as ON/OFF.
    The only relay shown on a wiring diagram of the fuel system for a 2005 with a PEM and a fuel pressure sensor on the injector rail sends power to the turbo control valve and the heater in the pcv system. There is not a fuel pump relay shown. Earlier cars ~2002? do have a fuel pump relay.

    Volvo has an extension wiring harness to be able to move the PEM inside the car, under the seat.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Upstate, NY
    Posts
    72

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoonk View Post
    The only relay shown on a wiring diagram of the fuel system for a 2005 with a PEM and a fuel pressure sensor on the injector rail sends power to the turbo control valve and the heater in the pcv system. There is not a fuel pump relay shown.
    Hmmm. I can actually activate the Fuel Pump Relay via DICE with a START and STOP activation. As a result, I can hear the pump(s) come on and off. This is a CEM operation. I have attached a photo. Not sure if it will show up in the post...
    Click image for larger version. 

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    So... I looked into the PEM, and have some interesting observations.

    - I found a cut on the rubber sleeve of the wiring harness.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    - Looking at the cut closely, I could see some chaffing of 2 of the wires (white, and white+black). In fact, the 2 wires appear to be touching (shorting)
    Click image for larger version. 

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    - I then separated the wires, cleaned up the contacts, plugged it back in
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	8276...

    STILL WON'T START.

    Interestingly, the cut looks like it was made by a rodent (chipmunks are rampant in my driveway). I had actually seen them scurry under the car in the past - destination unknown!

    My only thought now is that the shorting may have caused a damage to the PEM. Please field your inputs...

    Any recommendations for where to get a used PEM? Unfortunately, there are no 'pick your own parts' in upstate NY (Saratoga County)

    [I have attached some images... not sure if they show up in the post]

    Thanks!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_5866.jpg  
    Last edited by kef; 06-26-2017 at 06:10 PM.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    337

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    Erie probably has one.
    Toby
    2008 S80 T6 AWD Black Stone / Anthracite Black 85k miles
    2008 XC90 V8 Ember Black / Offblack 100k miles
    SOLD: 2005 XC70 Lava Sand / Taupe 176k miles
    Sammamish, Washington

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    584

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    Hmm, kef, I have little to no understanding of the fuel delivery system so sorry I can't be much help. Those damaged wires didn't look good. Can you hear the fuel pump making a whirring noise when you turn the ignition key to Run, before turning to Start? Anyone know if this would confirm the PEM is working correctly?
    2007 XC70, 206,000 miles
    2002 V70XC, 130,000 miles, parts car

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Upstate, NY
    Posts
    72

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    Leto...: Thanks! I've ordered the PEM from Erie. Very helpful guys!

    Xfingers: Yes, I can hear the fuel pump before and after cranking. That's what so odd about the fuel delivery problem -- If I can hear the pumps whirring (with old and new pump assembly), why can't I see a single drop of fuel coming out to the filter? Is it because only one of the two pumps is working? Is there a signal the PEM needs that it is missing? What signals does the PEM need?

    If the replacement PEM (used from Erie) does not resolve the problem, I may end up taking off the pump and closely watch the operation.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Upstate, NY
    Posts
    72

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    Success!

    Happy to say that the new PEM (from Erie) resolved by starting problem.

    Thank you all for your support!

    To summarize:
    The problem: The engine cut-off after about 2 seconds, and could not start, but could crank.
    The fix: New PEM (used from Erie V)
    Other work performed to address the problem (but not a fix):
    - Replaced antenna ring (VIDA/DICE reported it as a problem)
    - Replaced fuel pump assembly (BOSCH)
    - Replaced crankshaft position sensor [I think this CEL came on because of battery drain]

    I think due to a short of the wiring at the PEM (see pictures in my previous posts), the PEM was malfunctioning even though I could hear the fuel pump(s?) operating. My only guess for no fuel pressure in the line was that one of the pumps was probably not operational. I'm surprised there were no messages displayed, no CEL or no info on VIDA/DICE to troubleshoot the PEM problem.

    Cheers!
    -Kef

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