Bizarre low fuel stalling

**applewildmom** · 01-28-2003, 05:45 AM

Art:  great site!  I'm browsing now & printing related tsbs.  Interestingly, these are NOT all filed within the NHSTA site, as required by law.... another Fordlike behavior.

**cbob** · 02-01-2003, 02:21 PM

Applewildmom:
Guess I misunderstood your description a bit when you mentioned that the problem happened "every time with between 3 and 4 gallons in tank".

And with a thread titled "Low Fuel Stalling", well....

But with others having the same problem and always keeping the tank full, I'd have to back off on the water theory.
I'd still have the tank checked for water, and I'd still suggest you don't run the tank always on the bottom 1/4. The fuel pump is in the tank, and without fuel to cool it, it will tend to fail early.
Since it's a pressurized fuel system, my second guess would be a weak or leaking fuel pump.

Hope the problem finds an early solution.

**1Lieutenant** · 02-01-2003, 05:13 PM

Interesting problem.

One of the problems my 2002XC was having when I brought it in for its 7500mi service was prolonged starting time.  Turned out to be a faulty key antenna.

What is interesting is that the first thing the tech as was "was the car parked on a level surface" and "how full was the tank".

A similar problem occurs in my son's 2000 Honda Civic.  If it is very low on gas (typical problem with my son)  

 the car will not start very easily.

Steve

**scarypat2001** · 02-07-2003, 09:53 AM

I'm not sure I understand the water/fuel issue.

Water is heavier than fuel, thus it's always at the bottom of the tank.  All fuel systems pumps gas from the bottom of the tank, thus if you have water in there in just the right quantity, the car would stall with a full tank or an empty one.

Unfortunately I don't have any answer - the new anti-pollution systems on car are so complex now a day that there are too many variables involved.  Does the "check engine" warning light comes on often or just before this happens?

Anyway, I guess the dealer is the best place to get this solved.  Mind you, it never happened to us so far, and my wife does have the same driving patterns:  low tank, garage at around 5C, drives 1/2 hours at -20C then in a garage for the day.

Good luck in finding a solution!

**applewildmom** · 02-08-2003, 05:04 AM

So far, the solution looks to be a new car.  BTW, does anyone know a "Jason Guidi" ? I'd like to chat with him about the car.

**MLPVT** · 07-24-2005, 06:24 AM

I had this exact same problem on my car TWICE in the last three weeks, with two successive tanks of gas. Each time I had either 4 or 5 gallons left in the tank, well above the red zone when the engine stalled (and the check engine light came on). There was more than enough gasoline in the tank during each event to not cause the "LOW FUEL WARNING" indicator not to be tripped. The way the dealership explained it to me, there are two tanks in the 2005 XC70 and when the primary tank is empty, for whatever reason, the fuel pump isn't switching over to the secondary auxiliary tank. Why in God's name do they not have just one GAS tank, I don't understand. I would never have expected my car, with so few miles on it (3221/seven months old), to have such a major component failure, one that could have cost me my life in the lives of several people around me.

This past Friday I brought my car as well as a copy of THIS post along and a very detailed description of what happened me to the dealership where they were going to remove and install a new fuel pump. Unfortunately, after tearing my car apart in a gazillion pieces, they discovered the wrong part had been ordered and there was no hope of getting it repaired by the end of the working day. On a Friday afternoon no less and with NO LOANER CAR available. So now, I would have to bring it back this coming Thursday to have the "correct" pump installed again.

Because of my proximity to the interstate, both times I was seconds away from having been on the interstate moving at 70mph in rush-hour traffic with no power steering or breaks!. To say that I'm losing confidence in the reliability of my car would be seriously gross understatement.

I didn't go quite as far as Applewildmom with my demands, instead it will be complaining directly to Volvo.

Originally Posted by applewildmom

At 1200ml, it died @ highway speed w/3 gallons of fuel (indicator had just entered red, dealer confirmed) towed to dealer, who replaced rear fuel pump.  The tank is a saddlebag? Stupid design choice... Since then, has recurred 4 times, every time with between 3 and 4 gallons in tank.  Dealer has replaced relay, sender, upgraded software, put filter on uptake hose in tank, and replaced fuel pump seal when it started leaking after replace.  Last time it died, I was very nearly killed.  Have a loaner, and have started collecting NHSTA data, Lemon Law info ( for New Hampshire) Told dealer to either replace everything from the fuel tank to the engine or give me a new car.  Thoughts, anyone?

**Labradane** · 08-01-2005, 06:14 AM

Could your problem be a batch of bad gasoline? I recall reading last summer about how excess sulfur in some batches of gasoline resulted in damage to the silver parts of many cars' fuel gauges, which resulted in drivers running out of gasoline even though their (malfunctioning) gauges did not yet read empty. I'm not sure this quite fits the symptoms you describe, but it might be worth mentioning to the mechanic to make sure. Below is an article I found online that discusses the issue; several more are out there which might be more detailed.

Good luck.

====================

Drivers hit by gauge-gumming gasoline
Shell Oil stops pump salesat many stations in South
The Associated Press
Updated: 2:40 p.m. ET May 28, 2004

NEW ORLEANS - Just before the heavy-driving Memorial Day weekend, Shell Oil has stopped the sale of gasoline at more than 500 of its stations in the South because of high levels of sulfur that can damage vehicle fuel gauges and make an empty tank appear full.

The damage done by the bad gasoline could cause some drivers to run out of gas unexpectedly. Also, car owners may have to replace their fuel gauges — a repair job that can easily cost $400 to $600.

The tainted gasoline originated at the Motiva Enterprises refinery in Norco, La., according to Shell. Motiva is the refining arm of Shell in the East and South.

The company said it is investigating how the high sulfur levels occurred. Sulfur is naturally present in crude oil; some of it is supposed to be removed during refining.

As of Friday, 119 Shell and Texaco stations were closed in the New Orleans area, and 400 were not selling fuel in Florida, said Shell spokeswoman Helen Bow. (Shell owns the Texaco brand.)

Gas tanks have a float ball that rises and falls with the fuel level. An electrical system reads the float ball’s level and transmits the information to the dashboard fuel gauge. The system uses silver electrical contacts, which can be quickly corroded by sulfur.

The problem came to light this week after drivers began complaining about inaccurate fuel gauge readings.

In addition to the New Orleans area, problem fuel turned up in shipments to Miami, Tampa, Sarasota and Fort Lauderdale, Shell said.

Shell is replacing the gasoline at its stations. But Bow did not have an estimate of when all the stations would be pumping again.

Don Redman, a spokesman for Louisiana AAA, said that before the shutdown was announced, he fielded several calls from the auto club’s members complaining that their gas readings were way off.

“People have been looking at their odometers because of the high prices and saying, ‘Hey, wait a minute,”’ Redman said.

Shell said it had received 1,800 queries and 825 claims from people who said their fuel gauges had been affected.

Guy Valvis, owner of an auto repair shop in Metairie, said he normally handles about two gauge replacements a year. “I’ve fixed three or four here in the last week, and I’ve got two in here right now,” he said Friday.

Valvis said the repair job entails draining the fuel and removing the gas tank.