Nokian WR 235/60-16 update

[gibbons]

John, I don't know if you remember any of my last posts, I am the guy who won't use aftermarket wheels because the offset is off a couple of millimeters from the factory wheel specifications. I am that picky about my equipment. But in this case, the width is equally added to the centerline of the wheel, so the net effect on the suspension and turning radii is zero.

I like to check everything out, that's why I bought the caliper to measure tire widths. All the data I list is pretty darn accurate. Part of my check out was checking clearances with the 235s. Don't try this at home, but with the engine running in park, and the emergency brake on, I rolled close along side the front wheels on both sides on my creeper. I had my son crank the steering wheel full lock both directions (you get more angle with the power steering pump energized by the engine), and felt around the inside of the wheel wells. Actually, the closest clearances are out at the tread radius, not at the mid sidewall where the tire is widest. The tightest fit is full cranked, trailing edge of the tire, against the inner fender panel. I can still put my hand between tire and the panel. That is, palm on tire, back of hand towards panel. What's that, an 1.25" or so? Quick, where's my caliper.... And that's with the steering wheel turned against the stops, something I never do while driving. There is tons of clearance everywhere on the rear wheels.

Remember, I only tried this with 235/60-16 WRs. I don't know how another tire would work. Being a snow tire nut, I have had a few. I had some Gislaved Frost years ago. And some Continental Contacts (when Contact meant snow tire). Nothing compares to these new generation tires.

[John@CdnRockies]

Gibbons, I trust you a lot more than the Volvo dealer. I was interested in doing the trade as one of my original concerns in testing vehicles (think I posted it back in Jan 04) was excessive tire noise on the XC70.

I tried Wiz's suggestion to find a take-back tire store but without luck. One interesting note: Kal-O-Tire sells 4 Nokian's installed for C$850 while the dealer was charging C$1,100 - a 25% difference. I think that about says it all!

Looks like I am stuck with a dealer with some very sharp customer service practices. I will take the STR's and then move to Nokian's at the first avalable opportunity - most certainly for this winter. In the meantime, I will keep a wary eye for other untoward experiences with these folks.

[wiz]

With respect to the tire width, another member has recently fitted a set of 235/60-16R Falkens to his car. Given gibbons' comment a few posts ago that the Nokians run a wee bit narrow, I think you are on safe ground on the width issue...

[hrd_rok]

Many interesting comments here on Nokians as ST/R replacments

more tires... more money...

12 months and 35k and my st's are done, I was going to try and push them through the summer, but it is doubtful.... i don't think they can handle the heat.

for those extolling the virtues of Nokian WR (are these the A-W-P designation?),

if you were buying a 3 season (mostly dry + hot summers +30c) tire for the xc, would you still buy the nokian WR's?

If not, any other preferred choices.

I've got a set of snows (scorpian ice) on winter rims, so the snowflake designation is not all that critical as these tires will be coming off for the NOV15 - APR15 period.

I know that volvo wil try to flog the STR's if my tires are still on @ next service


fyi found a review at
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/hl/nokian.htm

[XC70Viking]

Hi.

I also have STR's for summer and another set for winter (Nokian Hakka Q). My replacement for the STR's will be Nokian NRV. They beat the STR's in a test I read on most category's, except offroad capabilities. Since I drive 99% on normal roads I don't really mind, since NRV's is more silent

For the record tires tested was:

1. Nokian NRV 8.9p
2. Pirelli Scorpion STR 8.2p
3. Continental 4x4 Contact 7.9p
4. Goodyear Wrangler 7.8p
5. Michelin 4x4 Synchrone 7.8p
6. BF Goodrich Macadam 7.6p

The points behind each brand is average points out of 10 maximum achieved in each test done. Test was done with people from carmagazine in Finland, Sweden and Norway.

Just my thought's on replacement for the STR's.

[emil]

I had NRVs for one summer season. They were fine except that they were prone to lateral drift on sloped roads. As are Dunlop sp sport 9000 235/55/17 which I put on this spring. Handling is MUCH better with Dunlops though the car became much less stable on tracked roads. Fuel consumption went through the roof as you might have guessed. Because of these two reasons (and because I got myself a subaru impreza turbo for spirited driving :-) ) I am now contemplating moving down in width to 225/55/17 - either to Michelin Diamaris or Continental 4x4 sport contact (the latter won a test by AutoBild). Would be keen to hear if anyone else used these tires on XC.

[Prepo]

Having extolled the virtue of Michelin Pilot Sport 225-60-16 tires on this forum, I now have to eat humble pie. After 16 months and 25000 km, the tread has developed a heel/toe wear pattern (saw tooth) which Michelin recognise is not caused by a faulty suspension (unlike so-called cupping). The result is a very noisy set of tires and I am going to replace them. Although the original size (Scorpions) of 215-60-16 was not available in this tire and even with the same overall tire diameter, Michelin have denied full warranty for the "oversize" tire - a cautionary fact for those using wider tires (even with a compenasting aspect ratio to get the same diameter).

This brings me to this thread because I like the sound of the Nokian WR (passenger) 235-60-16 tires as posted above ( I don't want the SUV version that comes in the original stock size, unlike the passenger tire). I suspect that if I go for the same Michelins as before, the problem may well happen again. So right now my choice seems to be narrowing to Michelin HydroEdge or the Nokian WR. I replaced my original Scorpions becasue of the noise and imprecise steering. After the developing noise problem on the Pilot Sport A/S I am rather sensitized to noise. I would really appreciate any comparative guidance on the two tires, recognising that not only do I want excellent all round all seasons performance but low noise and low steering wander on dry pavement for my 2001 XC. I am still in shock over the Michelin problem and look forward to your usual support.

[wiz]

Wow, I remember when you put those tires on, Prepo. This is really bad news - the Pilot Sport A/S is supposed to be a very good tire.

Was it Michelin who denied the warranty for "oversize" reasons or the tire shop? And if you go to a 235-60/16 tire, even one made by another manufacturer, who is to say that a similar decision might be made if the tires turn out to be faulty?

[Prepo]

The tire dealer and area rep were very supportive. The decision was made by "customer relations" at Michelin. To their credit, they have offered me partial compensation but well below the prorated replacement cost. Of concern is not only the tire warranty with "oversize" tires but also the car warranty (I have extended warranty to be concerned about). I can get the original tire size in the HydroEdge but not the Nokian WR passenger. So what do we do . . . ? Sigh.

[gibbons]

I hate it when someone tries to wiggle out of responsibility. I have had bad luck with Michelin. Not that their tires are bad, I just got a bad one in a set that gave me fits on my I30 until *I* figured it out for them.

As far as getting "bigger" or "oversize" tires, as I mentioned, they are about .1" taller, .05" on the radius. That is insignificant, the radius will change much more than that as the tire wears. If you check tire charts, you will find that the reference wheel width for a 215/65-16 is 6.5". That means that a 6.5" rim will hold the tire beads at the optimum width to give the sidewall its best profile and the tire its best overall properties. BUT, the reference width for a 235/60-16 is 7", the width of XC wheels (!). Technically, based on the wheel size, the 235 is the right size tire. Let's see them argue that.

I spent way to much time researching all this trivia before I jumped to the 235's, but in retrospect, it was well worth it.