VEXED, ONLY discussing ETM Failures

**DonWillson** · 06-27-2005, 07:10 PM

Things are progressing on two fronts.
I am talking every day or so with the TV investigative reporter. If you are in Colorado and have a story to tell him about your ETM failure let me know. I may have it in the back posts but just in case send me a paragraph and you home phone number. I'll forward it to the Investigator.

Now about the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. After my visit with my congresswoman's aid and her letter to NHTSA they are doing an "investigate and verify' to see if the claims are true as reported. I got this response from one person he called.

She initiallly said,
"By the way, just to clarify, my car did stall on a busy road, would not start and had to be towed. I paid $931 for the new throttle. The incident happened at 42,000 miles, but the car was already 5 years old. I did have two children with me.
Also, in addtion to stalling I think it is important to emphasize the
power/engine surges that tend to be the result of the faulty throttles.
(at least I think they are, you are the expert here)."

She then reported this.
"I am also very curious to learn more about the NHTSA investigation. I understand this is probably still not an official investigation because I have not seen anything in the media. Am I correct? I wonder if the agency has already contacted Volvo. I remember that when I spoke with the investigator he tried to explain to me that it all boils down to how much leverage drivers have when their cars stall. We need more examples of drivers not being able to start their cars immediately after stalling. As you may emember my car had to be towed because it would not restart. The assumption may be that if you are able to drive at 10 mph or start the car immediately after stalling you are not really in danger."

So, you can see we need evidence. If you had a failure in a hazardous location or a full "had to be towed" failure, let me know. Send me a paragraph describing you failure and how you felt it was a safety concern. Include your phone number(s). I will forward it on to the NHTSA investigator.
He called last week and wanted to see an ETM so I will send out unit 7 tomorrow (June 28) with details on how to open up the throttle position sensor. I had cut off the outside of the potentiometer housings and taken one resistance film out. It had 4 'wear through' places on both pots on the right side. The second one I have not disturbed so he can see how it is built himself.

Don't drop the ball on this. I hate to keep asking this but has any one been hurt or worse?

DonWillson for VEXED
[email protected]

**qwibqwib** · 06-30-2005, 09:45 AM

Hello, glad to see this forum & all the advice and hard work being done. Hopefully Volvo will correct this known defect and reimburse those needlessly footing the bill.

Unfortunately, my always dealer-serviced 2000 Volvo V70XC had its ETM replaced yesterday for @$1100. Six months ago I asked Volvo dealership to investigate the car's occasional refusal to start during 60k service. They "flashed" chips temporarily fixing problem. But now at only 67k, ETS light came on repeatedly (with surging speed) during the homeward leg of 1500 mile trip and over the past week.

Glad I made it back but very displeased about expense & madder still having read all forum and learned of real risk of stranding my family & that the new part is no better than old! When the local dealership "only" billed me $800, I hoped that it was courtesy for fixing a known defect - but today they explained the misbilling as an error so my labor costs went to "normal" $400 fee <yuck>. I did obtain the old ETM and will send it if still wanted. I am also writing NHTSA & Volvo as suggested.

Though I like my Volvo overall (this is my second and my family's fourth), unless this issue is resolved favorably, it will be our last. I need reliable transportation - something I expect from cars costing $30k plus. My $7k Mazda is going on 19 years and my Honda 20...

**PlaysWithCars** · 06-30-2005, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by qwibqwib

Unfortunately, my always dealer-serviced 2000 Volvo V70XC had its ETM replaced yesterday for @$1100. Six months ago I asked Volvo dealership to investigate the car's occasional refusal to start during 60k service. They "flashed" chips temporarily fixing problem. But now at only 67k, ETS light came on repeatedly (with surging speed) during the homeward leg of 1500 mile trip and over the past week.

Glad I made it back but very displeased about expense & madder still having read all forum and learned of real risk of stranding my family & that the new part is no better than old! When the local dealership "only" billed me $800, I hoped that it was courtesy for fixing a known defect - but today they explained the misbilling as an error so my labor costs went to "normal" $400 fee <yuck>. I did obtain the old ETM and will send it if still wanted. I am also writing NHTSA & Volvo as suggested...

Was your 60k service done under warranty? If so, then this could be argued to be an ongoing problem, with replacment as the final solution. If not, then you just got screwed by the dealer IMHO. Temporary fixes are just that - temporary until something else changes. In this case, the change is to the balance in your bank account.

I'd take the reports available earlier in this thread back to the dealer, and negotiate with them on the repair bill. At the very least, they should refund you any money you paid them for the "flashing" of the chips, since that didn't do any good in solving the problem.

Depending on your family's relationship with this dealership, you might have better success in resolving this one-on-one, especially if your service has always been done at the dealership. If/when there is a settlement with Volvo on these defective units, it is likely to be less than what you are able to achieve in person.

You: nothing to lose, everything to gain
Volvo: you are insignificant until you make yourself a burr in the saddle

**DonWillson** · 07-01-2005, 11:20 PM

Hi VEXED Gang,
I received another module that has different wipers. The original wipers were four fingers cut into the wiper frame, the new one has 12 fingers welded to the wiper frame.
This proves that Volvo knew of the failure as early as late summer 2000 as they made changes in the potentiometer. I would guess that they thought that the more fingers the less likely they would all wear through and cause the failure.
Steve in Washington state sent me a pair of end caps from a failed ETM.
The module was removed from a 2001 V70 XC with 79,950 miles. It was purchased the last day of 2000. The casting date code is June 2000, The part number is 8644346.
Now I need the end caps from some of the earlier failures. The local dealer has cut me off from getting any more failed units from them.

Previous part numbers were:
9186793 Wiper has the 4 fingers for each resistor
Unit 2, Jan 03, 2000
Unit 3, Nov 01, 1999
Unit 4, Sept 17, 1999
Unit 5, March 22, 1999
Unit 7, Sent to NHTSA
8844345 Unknown, have run resistance tests but not opened it
Unit 6, Sept 20, 2000
8644346 Wiper has 12 wires welded to the wiper frame
Unit 8, Nov 9, 2000, 79,850, XC V70, year 2001 (purchased new (12/31/2000)
864437 No units yet, this number is installed on my son's car, a 2000 XC with 45,000 miles last November.
Click on the links below to see the images.

**Bud** · 07-02-2005, 08:21 AM

According to sources quoted in the LA Times article, they knew of this design flaw before the first units were shipped in late '98. It took them almost 2 years to come up with this band-aid repair to a lousy design.

I would have figured that more than a couple of the fingers would have to wear through the thick-film resistive coating before failure, but it looks like the upper two pads bear the brunt of the wear, and are the most critical, hence the failure.

Since this owner ONLY got 80K miles before failure, it is not the triple longevity one might hope for, by increasing the finger count three-fold. Volvos claim that the new design is better does not hold up substantially, considering this failure data.

**dickiem** · 07-06-2005, 09:55 AM

Hi to everyone over there in the USA.

Just to introduce myself, I'm dickiem, based in the UK and have recently bought (6 weeks ago) a 2001 S60 2.0T SE.

Within a few days of getting the car home I noticed a niggling problem with the throttle. A flat spot on acceleration (which I thought might be the MAF) and a light surge at 30mph and 40mph. The flat spot is fairly consistent but the surging is intermittent.

Took the car to the main dealer twice. First time they found a code relating to the oxygen sensor which they reset but confirmed that this wouldn't cause my symptoms. Second time, they put it on the rolling road and although they found no fault codes they decided that the problem may be the throttle housing (ETM). Cost to repair - £587.

Tried to get the (private) dealer who I bought the car off to pay for repairs but he's not interested.

Having looked into the issue in more detail using the UK based Volvo owners club I found a link to the work you guys are doing. Having realised how big a problem it is, I wrote to Volvo UK to complain and they basically said it wasn't their responsibility and wouldn't contribute to repair costs.

I've since written again suggesting that any vehicle fitted with one of these modules should be the subject of a recall. I'm awaiting a response.

You guys seem to have several options for applying pressure, i.e. safety/environmental agencies, law, TV etc whereas here in the UK I can't see any obvious way of forcing the issue. Any ideas would be appreciated.

**rhauptschein** · 07-06-2005, 01:48 PM

I purchase an 01XC70 preowned in Dec. 04 and wanted to check if the ETM was previously replaced. I called a Volvo dealer (including the original owner's which I determined by the stamps on the interval service maintenance in user's manual book) and they had no record of it being replaced under warranty. I looked under the hood and the part # is 8644346 (maybe last digit is 8), which per the thread corresponds to a newer ETM? I would like to know at what mileage is was replaced to get a gauge of when it will fail yet again? Though there have been reports of it failing very soon after replacement.

I wish Volvo would get their act together, use their megaprofits to redesign a nonflawed throttle module for a recall, and put this behind them. It is a big safety issue.

I assume the newer 2002 XC70 throttle modules which don't have this problem are incompatible for years 01, 00, 99?

**DonWillson** · 07-06-2005, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by rhauptschein

I purchase an 01XC70 preowned in Dec. 04 and wanted to check if the ETM was previously replaced. I called a Volvo dealer (including the original owner's which I determined by the stamps on the interval service maintenance in user's manual book) and they had no record of it being replaced under warranty. I looked under the hood and the part # is 8644346 (maybe last digit is 8), which per the thread corresponds to a newer ETM? I would like to know at what mileage is was replaced to get a gauge of when it will fail yet again? Though there have been reports of it failing very soon after replacement.

I wish Volvo would get their act together, use their megaprofits to redesign a nonflawed throttle module for a recall, and put this behind them. It is a big safety issue.

I assume the newer 2002 XC70 throttle modules which don't have this problem are incompatible for years 01, 00, 99?

It looks like you probably have the original ETM.
see http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=104
I think your is an 8644346 (not 8). When replaced send me the old unit or at least the end caps. I need mileage, date codes, mileage, etc. as well as numbers off of the new unit.
See http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showpo...7&postcount=22
Inclose your home e-mail and I'll send you pictures.

No one has tried a later model. Probably too much electrical and software differences.

DonWillson for VEXED
[email protected]

**billandiris** · 07-07-2005, 05:01 PM

Based on the great information I found on these forums I was well armed when I had my local Volvo dealer replacing my dying ETM a few months back. (covered under California warranty as they have stricter emissions standards)

Today, while discussing some failing trim in the door panel, I mentioned how I haven't had any problems since the ETM was replaced. The desk jockey then commented to the mechanic who was standing near-by, "Joe there could make a living off those thing". To which Joe replied, "Hmph" and walked away. Just one more indication that Volvo knows exactly what's going on.

**MadeInJapan** · 07-11-2005, 07:31 AM

Replacing these is a real PITA and Volvo Mechanics only make an hourly wage no matter what the job...I bet they're sick and tired of replacing them. It's Volvo, the corporation that needs to step up to the plate...long over-due in my opinion.

Good luck guys...keep pushing the right buttons- I'm routing for you!
('98 S70 owner, but feeling your pain).