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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    104

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    This whole damn process has me so frustrated that I’m crabby and I too am sorry that I took offense.

    But I’m out of ideas here. Having done enough rebuilds I didn’t think I could get the alternator out with out removing the intake manifold. But I also removed the PS pump and I can see how that could have been enough.

    I’m embarrassed to tell you that I did check out the bolts on the intake manifold and the top 3 were nice and snug. The two I can access without removing the thermostat housing (the middle and right) were way loose. So I thought hey these guys are onto something. Tightened them up, no difference.

    I will pull the mani again and look for a bad hose or missed electrical connection or compromised gasket. But I still don’t see why any of these would affect only #2.

    There are 6 numbers on my ECU. I found one with 4 that are the same and I bought it for $100. But I’m all but certain the car won’t start with it. There is a local who is supposed to be good with Volvo’s maybe he’ll reprogram it for me.

    As a professional software developer (and part time physicist) it pains me to pay someone to reprogram anything. I have VIDA and when I first got it it worked fine (except it would only run on windows XP). But I don’t remember the username or password that came with it.

    Assuming I wanted to endeavor to reprogram my new ECU how is that done? I have a OBD to USB cable and at one point (years ago) I was able to pull dats from my cars computer.

    So I’ll check the mani (it’s a 2 hr job for me now off and back on (maybe 2.5). I’m just unclear what I’m looking for other than obvious air leak.

    And then when the new ECU comes I’ll install it and she won’t start at all. Then I’ll take her to the Volvo friendly local mechanic regardless of how much pain that will cause me.

    I’ll keep you all posted. Thanks for the input.

    drGian
    current lineup: 2001 Volvo v70 2.4 Turbo, 2014 Ford Flex AWD, 3.5 V6 Turbo, 2017 F-150 3.5 V6 Turbo

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    598

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    What are you using to check powers and grounds? At minimum you need to use an old school test light with an incandescent bulb. A multimeter can send you circles as it will show continuity and power ground with even just part of a single strand of wire intact. If you only have that it will not carry the current that is needed. I have seen fellow techs run around in circles using only a multimeter.

    I found a wiring diagram (maybe not the best one in the world but the only that I currently have access to) that shows the five coils but not what position they are. The only one that has a brown wire on it I will assume is the one you are dealing with, it is shown as a second from an end of the five in a row, by my thinking it should be the #4 coil but without the diagram labeling the coils we can call it the #2 coil. The other second from the end coil has wires different from you say you have, so assuming that you are calling the second coil in from the front of the engine as #2 we can say the the coil with the brown wire is #2.

    It is labeled with a green/white wire (connector position 4) that is common to the other four coils so I make the assumption that it is the common power for the five coils. It would appear to go an ECM connector is position 6 but the diagram does not ID which connector, seems to be a 9 terminal connector.

    There is a black wire (connector position 3) that goes to ground from the connector, ground point #G88 top of engine. The black wire is also common to the 1 and 3 coils.

    There is a brown wire (connector position 1) that goes to a what appears to be an ECM connector (different likely than the green/white wire) position 13, seems to be a 24 terminal connector.

    My assumption would be that the brown wire is control for the coil. IE with what should be constant power on the green/ white wire the brown would be grounded and not grounded by the ECM to create the spark in the coil.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Virginia Beach
    Posts
    3,818

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    Hey, a fellow physicist!

    So, lets go back to timeline:

    Engine runs OK.
    Manifold removed to replace alternator.
    Engine runs badly.

    Youve examined the parts of the car that were untouched in that process: coil, wiring, plugs, ECU.

    Youve left unexamined the parts that were touched: injector, manifold, manifold gasket, injector wiring, injector o-rings.

    A vacuum leak could cause a misfire, even if the plug is firing. Lots of potential causes in your manifold/surrounding parts.

    Go back and look at the stuff you did touch, its more likely there than a simultaneous ECU failure...
    Current Fleet:
    2016 Tundra Crewmax 4WD 1794
    2005 MB S600 (100K, Michelin AS3+, M1 0W40)
    2002 V70-XC (238K, Castrol Edge 0W40)
    2002 V70-T5 (195K, IPD bars, Bilsteins)
    2001 V70-T5 (76K)
    1932 Packard Sedan (straight 8, dual sidemounts, original paint and interior, Shell Rotella 15W40)

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Pleasanton CA USA
    Posts
    386

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    Restating the first sentence of the OP:
    "I finished rebuilding my 2007 XC70, I got her with a broken valve, tore her down and put her back together".

    Unless I missed something, drGian bought the car inoperative, and so far has got her driving on 4 cylinders. He's got no spark on #2 with the plug pulled out and grounded to the block -- when he swapped the coil-pack harnesses of #1 with #2, he got a good spark on #2 and no spark on #1. He noticed multiple cracks in the harness sheathing and corrosion spots in the bared copper wire.

    He spliced in a new section of the signal wire for #2, but still no spark. He is doubting whether the ECU is delivering a #2 ignition pulse, but just a possibility.

    drGian is a physics-trained guy -- that gives me confidence that he can suss out a poor electrical connection. He needs the 2007 XC70 ignition electrical drawing, and the pinouts at the ECU for #2 signal. There was a good idea a few comments back to test the #2 coil-pack 12V and G wires, by seeing if they can power a light-bulb as brightly as bridging the bulb across the battery, testing current-carrying continuity (a few amps). The theory here is that it takes a lot of current to charge up the coil-pack in the 100 msec between firings (@3000 rpm). Weak charging current is an ignition failure mode, just as would be a missing ECU pulse.

    Glad to join the rat pack - got my undergrad in theoretical physics, masters in comp sci, career in scientific sw dev and robotics
    Last edited by pbierre; 11-12-2019 at 06:04 AM.
    2013 XC70 T6 Flamenco Red (hers)
    2015 XC70 T6 Seashell Metallic (his)
    past: 13 Volvos going back to '74 242 sedan

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    1,284

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by drgian View Post
    Assuming I wanted to endeavor to reprogram my new ECU how is that done?
    To program a NEW Volvo ECU (or any other control unit or remote or key that requires software) requires a VIDA subscription. VIDA is an online product now, 2015 was the first year they switched to that. Dealers of course have a subscription and they are also sold to Independent shops (maybe individuals also). Create user at VOLVO, download VIDA, purchase subscription, (3, 30, or 365 day) Plug dice in, pay for download, follow correct steps and the NEW part works. Takes an hour or so for that process. If something goes wrong I have had that process take 3 days! There is no help button for that process other than to send emails back and forth.

    I have never heard of using VIDA to reprogram a USED control unit. I don't think it can be done except by someone such as Xemodex. (in their facility)

    If you have a copy of VIDA purchased off the internet (last available was 4014d) - It is a hacked (illegal) copy - it might have a user name of 1. It is the same program that was used for a subscription back them, just someone figured out how to activate it without VOLVO's permission.

    You cannot use any DVD based VIDA to download software. (or talk to a 2016+ car)

    VIDA appears for a 2001 to be able to fire injectors individually, but no mention of coils. I would explore options with VIDA if you can instead of a generic code reader, VIDA can give suggestions as to what to look at for each code it finds.

    Or with your generic tool it shows 14 pending codes - are any of those related to ignition?
    Last edited by hoonk; 11-12-2019 at 12:47 PM.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Pleasanton CA USA
    Posts
    386

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    As far as list of 14 DTCs, the car had a bum battery and alternator (now replaced), so these could be residuals that can be cleared out with VIDA.
    He's come far enough to drive the car on 4-firing-cylinders, which I don't think would be possible if these 14 DTCs were active, onging problems.
    2013 XC70 T6 Flamenco Red (hers)
    2015 XC70 T6 Seashell Metallic (his)
    past: 13 Volvos going back to '74 242 sedan

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Pleasanton CA USA
    Posts
    386

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    A single coil-pack draws 6 amps of current at peak RPMs (6000), or about 2-3 amps under normal driving.

    To test the ignition harness, if you unplug a coil-pack connector, and try to light a 55W headlight bulb bridging the 12V-G connectors, it should light up as brightly as it does when bridged directly across the battery. If it is dimmer and redder, then the harness has become corroded to the point of not delivering sufficient charging current to form a spark. A voltmeter can trick you into thinking everything is hunky dory, since it only stuffs a few milliamps of current into the wire.
    2013 XC70 T6 Flamenco Red (hers)
    2015 XC70 T6 Seashell Metallic (his)
    past: 13 Volvos going back to '74 242 sedan

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    104

    Default

    When you saw replace the harness, you mean the entire wiring harness that goes to the coil packs? Yikes thats like 50 wires. But Ill try the test you describe. Thanks.

    drGian
    current lineup: 2001 Volvo v70 2.4 Turbo, 2014 Ford Flex AWD, 3.5 V6 Turbo, 2017 F-150 3.5 V6 Turbo

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    104

    Default

    Yessir. Got my PhD from Michigan State did my thesis at Fermilab.

    I Try a new (old) injector, no problem. I believe I have ruled out a wiring issue I have a good new ground wire and I’m getting 14v on the yellow wire. The signal wire I dunno how to read. But I did trace it back to the EXU and jumped it with a new wire to now avail.

    Saturday I will pull the intake manifold off, I have a new gasket coming and see if I can see an issue near #2. The prevailing theory is that if there air flow or a nice leak there the computer won’t fire. I’ll check they out for sure.

    I was hooked on the computer being the problem, I got a new one coming and of all else fails I will replace it and I’m sure she won’t start. Then I’ll hook up VIDA and see if there is some sort of program computer men (I’m forever the optimist). If all that fails I’ll take her to the local Volvo guy see what he says. There is an event storm I get once or twice a day. I though I posted it but I’ll attach to this post. This seems to indicate the block isn’t grounded but toddy I pulled the ground strap and sanded it till it was copper color on both ends and I’m reading good almost zero Ohms between the head and the fuel rail or body.

    Im hoping I pull that manifold and see I nice big air leak.

    But either way. Today I cleaned her up and replaced the floor mats got her plated and legal and gave the keys to my kid. I’ll work on #2 in my spare time but I can’t be out there every Saturday and Sunday like it’s been the last 7 months.

    DrGian
    current lineup: 2001 Volvo v70 2.4 Turbo, 2014 Ford Flex AWD, 3.5 V6 Turbo, 2017 F-150 3.5 V6 Turbo

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    104

    Default

    What youve said is consistent with what Ive observed. I read somewhere that #1 is to your left as you face the car. As I you were a lot to get run over. But Ive jumped that wire so its a discontinuity there.

    My plan
    1 - Pull intake manifold look for mistakes there.
    2- try to replace ECU try to reprogram using vids
    3- take to mechanic and pay for diagnosis. Admit defeat think about Michael Jordan failure commercial
    current lineup: 2001 Volvo v70 2.4 Turbo, 2014 Ford Flex AWD, 3.5 V6 Turbo, 2017 F-150 3.5 V6 Turbo

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