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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    NJ
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    639

    Default P0017, P0016 After removing and replacing timing cover Help!?

    I have another thread running on my PCV saga. This has cropped up as part of that effort and I am now desperate. In order to verify I did not have any leaking at the front cam seals I removed the Timing cover. The PCV had already been R&R'd and I have about 200 miles on the car since that replacement and I am still chasing down a leak.

    I drove the car about 75 miles yesterday and other than the ongoing oil leak all was fine. I got home last night, changed the Turbo Oil return gaskets believing that that is a possible source of of the leak and then took the timing cover off to verify cam seals weren't leaking....

    No visible drips or leaks, so good news there....HOWEVER, I had a bear of a time getting the cover back on and aligned. Got it back on, started the car and withing 2 mins I threw 2 codes - P0016 Crankshaft position Correlation bank 1 Sensor A, and P0017 Bank 1 sensor B.

    What did I do or mess up????? I am quite despondent about this as I feel like I keep going backwards....

    Where is the crank position sensor on this car and is it possible I damaged it wrestling the cover back on? The timing belt was tight, has not jumped any teeth etc.

    I did replace the gaskets on the CVVT Solenoids but that was several days ago and at least 200 miles ago... maybe that has something to do with it?, but both go bad??? I read that sometimes an oil change can remediate it? Really? I cleaned the solenoids when they came off with carb cleaner before I put it all back together.

    Any ideas here, I REALLY need to get this sorted out, I am close to taking it to someone else to fix which I don't want to do....This all started with a simple spark plug change......
    2020 Subaru Outback XT - Pearl White Loaded-huge improvement over 2013!
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    2013 2013 Subaru Outback - charcoal Grey, Eyesight Collision Avoidance 110k miles
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    1978 Bitchin' Chevrolet Z28 Camaro - Fuel Injected 383ci SB Dyno'd at 452HP 462FT/LBs Torque
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Virginia Beach
    Posts
    4,116

    Default

    If the car runs OK, I would clear the codes and see if they come back.

    Sounds to me like a cam position/crank position disagreement, which might happen if the cam phaser (CVVT pulley) rotated a bit before oil pressure built inside of it...
    Current Fleet:
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    37

    Default

    Id recheck your CVVT connections again since you were messing with the cover. Ive accidently knocked my connector loose and mine threw codes. Id clear codes, check the connection and drive it again

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    639

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro14 View Post
    If the car runs OK, I would clear the codes and see if they come back.

    Sounds to me like a cam position/crank position disagreement, which might happen if the cam phaser (CVVT pulley) rotated a bit before oil pressure built inside of it...
    Will that remediate itself as pressure builds? I don't understand the mechanics of it to get my head around.
    2020 Subaru Outback XT - Pearl White Loaded-huge improvement over 2013!
    1955 Ford F-250 - 223 IL6, 4 Speed with Granny Gear, 109 HP, 4.88 Rear
    2017 Maserati Ghibli - Blu Emozione - GONE!
    2013 2013 Subaru Outback - charcoal Grey, Eyesight Collision Avoidance 110k miles
    2007 2007 XC70, Barents Blue, Charcoal Leather 215k miles
    1978 Bitchin' Chevrolet Z28 Camaro - Fuel Injected 383ci SB Dyno'd at 452HP 462FT/LBs Torque
    My build thread: http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=276139

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Virginia Beach
    Posts
    4,116

    Default

    Pressure should build quickly inside the CVVT depending on solenoid position and oil flow through it. Oil pressure phases the cam several (like 15, I think) degrees with respect to the crankshaft to allow for smooth idle and better high RPM performance. It's easy to imagine the cam getting out of phase when the oil pressure/supply was interrupted by your removal of the solenoid. If there were cam lobe pressure on the pulley, and oil was allowed to flow backwards (because the solenoid was removed), it could position itself incorrectly...at least, that's my theory.

    But you took it apart, so there wasn't any oil, at least for a little while...so, I would check: did the gasket go on correctly? Did the electrical connector go back on snugly?

    This thing was OK when you took it apart, so it should be OK now, assuming the little things were correctly done...so, if the engine runs OK, I would just clear the code and see if it returns...
    Current Fleet:
    2016 Tundra Crewmax 4WD 1794
    2005 MB S600 (126K, Michelin AS4, HPL 0W40)
    2005 MB SL600 (55K Michelin AS4, Mobil 1 0W40)
    2004 V70R (143K, six speed M66, HPL 5W40)
    2004 XC90 (235K, HPL 0W30 Euro)
    2002 V70-XC (295K, HPL 0W30 Euro)
    2002 V70-T5 (225K, IPD bars, Bilsteins)
    2001 V70-T5 (125K, IPD downpipe, cat back and other mods)
    1932 Packard Sedan (straight 8, dual sidemounts, original paint and interior, Shell Rotella 15W40)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    639

    Default

    I cleared them this AM and the codes came right back in less than a minute. Will see what happens this afternoon when I drive home. I removed the solenoids, cleaned them out with Carb cleaner, soaked up the oil in the head so that when I put the gaskets back on it was clean and then remounted them. So there was no oil immediately in the solenoids when the car was re-started but it didn't throw the code for well after 100 miles later.

    Car idles and runs fine.

    Will check connections as well. If anything else comes to mind please feel free to update.
    2020 Subaru Outback XT - Pearl White Loaded-huge improvement over 2013!
    1955 Ford F-250 - 223 IL6, 4 Speed with Granny Gear, 109 HP, 4.88 Rear
    2017 Maserati Ghibli - Blu Emozione - GONE!
    2013 2013 Subaru Outback - charcoal Grey, Eyesight Collision Avoidance 110k miles
    2007 2007 XC70, Barents Blue, Charcoal Leather 215k miles
    1978 Bitchin' Chevrolet Z28 Camaro - Fuel Injected 383ci SB Dyno'd at 452HP 462FT/LBs Torque
    My build thread: http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=276139

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Virginia Beach
    Posts
    4,116

    Default

    Rats....so much for my theory...
    Current Fleet:
    2016 Tundra Crewmax 4WD 1794
    2005 MB S600 (126K, Michelin AS4, HPL 0W40)
    2005 MB SL600 (55K Michelin AS4, Mobil 1 0W40)
    2004 V70R (143K, six speed M66, HPL 5W40)
    2004 XC90 (235K, HPL 0W30 Euro)
    2002 V70-XC (295K, HPL 0W30 Euro)
    2002 V70-T5 (225K, IPD bars, Bilsteins)
    2001 V70-T5 (125K, IPD downpipe, cat back and other mods)
    1932 Packard Sedan (straight 8, dual sidemounts, original paint and interior, Shell Rotella 15W40)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    639

    Default

    Again, it sounds like the timing of the error code might be a coincidence, but is there anything I could have messed up taking the timing cover off and putting it back on? I had a real hard time getting it positioned to get back on.
    2020 Subaru Outback XT - Pearl White Loaded-huge improvement over 2013!
    1955 Ford F-250 - 223 IL6, 4 Speed with Granny Gear, 109 HP, 4.88 Rear
    2017 Maserati Ghibli - Blu Emozione - GONE!
    2013 2013 Subaru Outback - charcoal Grey, Eyesight Collision Avoidance 110k miles
    2007 2007 XC70, Barents Blue, Charcoal Leather 215k miles
    1978 Bitchin' Chevrolet Z28 Camaro - Fuel Injected 383ci SB Dyno'd at 452HP 462FT/LBs Torque
    My build thread: http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=276139

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    1,420

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 8pack View Post
    Where is the crank position sensor
    Over the flexplate/torque convertor

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    639

    Default

    The explanation on my OBDII reader for the codes includes the following as possbible reasons for the code:

    Faulty Oil control Valve
    Open or short in the VVT Circuit
    Open or short in the oil control or solenoid valve
    Damaged ECM

    Is there any way to test the Solenoid valve?
    Any way to test the VVT circuit?

    Anything else to look for?

    Thanks!
    2020 Subaru Outback XT - Pearl White Loaded-huge improvement over 2013!
    1955 Ford F-250 - 223 IL6, 4 Speed with Granny Gear, 109 HP, 4.88 Rear
    2017 Maserati Ghibli - Blu Emozione - GONE!
    2013 2013 Subaru Outback - charcoal Grey, Eyesight Collision Avoidance 110k miles
    2007 2007 XC70, Barents Blue, Charcoal Leather 215k miles
    1978 Bitchin' Chevrolet Z28 Camaro - Fuel Injected 383ci SB Dyno'd at 452HP 462FT/LBs Torque
    My build thread: http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=276139

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