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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    Default Lost All My Oil Today!

    I've gotten a lot of great info off this site but (luckily) haven't had to post with many issues until today...

    2002 XC70 with 123k mi. purchased in 2013. Was driving up a steep mountain road and pushing the car harder than normal but nothing crazy. When I stopped I noticed a little smoke coming out the front so popped the hood and a small amount of smoke was coming up from behind the engine. There was a fine residue/spray on the passenger side of the engine bay visible on the ps reservoir and plastic box housing the computer modules. I tried to identify the fluid but it was a very light mist on my finger, nothing thick and heavy. Also, the engine fan was still running even tho car was off (hardly ever happens) so I figured engine had really heated up going up the mountain and maybe a little oil residue somewhere was burning off.

    About 1.5 hr. later, I get back in the XC and head back home. After about 20 min., my oil light flickers. I pull over to check oil and just before I shut off the engine I see warning message "NO OIL PRESSURE. STOP ENGINE". I get out of car and see a lot of oil dripping from passenger side of engine near the wheel. Oil is all over the underside of car on passenger side and there's even a very light mist on the rear bumper and window. Inside the engine bay, there's more spray on the passenger side and you can see a lot of wetness looking down around the crank pulley area. I'm thinking some oil was propelled/sprayed upward by the spinning belts. Anyway, I pull the dipstick and it's bone dry!

    I'm only about 5 min. from home so I walk, collect about 3.5 quarts of oil I have lying around the house, return to my XC and pour in the oil. Now the oil level reaches the very bottom of the dipstick. A good samaritan stops by in his car and gives me 3 qt. of oil. I put in 2 and now the oil level is at full on the dipstick. Drive 3 minutes to get home with no problems but more oil is leaking in the driveway. Check the dipstick and the oil is down almost a quart. I put the XC up on jackstands, remove skidplate, and see a lot of oil on and above the oil filter and nearby vicinity. Of course the skidplate itself is full of oil. No oil around the plug, the oil cooler, or the oil pan gasket. I can't identify any obvious spot where oil is pouring out so I guess tomorrow I'll have to start the engine and take a look underneath. Will report back with more info.

    Just a little background. Never had any problems before this with oil leaks. Check oil level weekly. I get good suction with the PCV glove test. Don't have a lot of car repair experience but have been researching on VIDA, this site, Youtube, etc. I'm thinking something major has given way or come unconnected to be losing oil this quickly. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
    Posts
    1,063

    Default

    Blown oil seal. Could be the intake cam seal, exhaust cam seal, or the crank shaft seal. Could be caused by crank case pressure on load due to a clogged PCV boost circuit (PCV has both an idle and a load (boost) circuit).

    The job is a bit involved, but can be DIY with the proper tools.
    2005 XC70 Crystal Green | Hilton | 16T | Bad Swede | 130k miles

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Virginia Beach
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    4,082

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Antherzoll View Post
    Blown oil seal. Could be the intake cam seal, exhaust cam seal, or the crank shaft seal. Could be caused by crank case pressure on load due to a clogged PCV boost circuit (PCV has both an idle and a load (boost) circuit).

    The job is a bit involved, but can be DIY with the proper tools.
    Yep...
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    2002 V70-XC (275K, HPL Euro 0W30)
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    582

    Default

    Thanks, Antherzoll, blown oil seal makes a lot of sense. I'll have to research where these seals are located and take a look tomorrow. I lost a lot of oil in a hurry so if it's leaking from any of these seals I'm guessing it should be very obvious to the eye. Maybe the crank shaft seal since there seems to be some oil around the crank area? I know the PCV boost circuit isn't easy to test so I'd like to confirm that's the problem before I try to tackle the PCV overhaul. I guess if I find one of these seals blown then there's my confirmation on the PCV problem...

    Anyone else with any ideas/experience?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Virginia Beach
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    4,082

    Default

    It was the intake cam seal that blew on mine. Lost 4 Qts in a few miles. Oil was literally pouring from the seal with the engine running...but with the timing cover in place, it was pouring out by the crank...

    That car had a very clean engine inside and glove test was still good prior to the seal failure. To replace a seal requires locking the cams in position. You'll need a tool for that. I did all three front seals (both cams plus crank) since the timing belt had to come off. You'll want to make a couple of seal drivers (large sockets, PVC Pipe, whatever) since you're driving the seals in over a shaft..You'll need a rear cam seal for the intake cam and you might as well do the rear seal in the exhaust cam while you're there.

    PCV just takes time...nothing tricky. Replace every part, don't try to re-use.
    Current Fleet:
    2016 Tundra Crewmax 4WD 1794
    2005 MB S600 (114K, Michelin AS3+, LiquiMoly 0W40)
    2005 MB SL600 (50K, Michelin AS4, Mobil 1 0W40)
    2004 V70R (six speed M66, Mobil 1 5W30)
    2002 V70-XC (275K, HPL Euro 0W30)
    2002 V70-T5 (216K, IPD bars, Bilsteins)
    2001 V70-T5 (120K, IPD downpipe, cat back and other mods)
    1932 Packard Sedan (straight 8, dual sidemounts, original paint and interior, Shell Rotella 15W40)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    Northeast
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    Default

    Thanks, Astro14, very interesting. So I better take off the timing cover and see if oil's dripping down from camshaft seals. And you may be suggesting that since I'm in there anyway, might as well replace all three seals (2 cam, 1 crank) regardless which one's leaking. Also I can't ignore the rear intake cam seal, somehow doing the front intake cam seal requires it. Good info on the seal drivers. Would I need to lock the cams if I'm only replacing the crankshaft seal?...I have replaced timing belt once, FWIW.

    Were you convinced your seal failure resulted from PCV blockage even tho positive glove test? Did you go ahead and replace PCV at that point? (I bet you did!)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    1,186

    Default

    PCV is not very performant in this car. I guess, because it is hard to separate oil-air mist into fractions, and Volvo thinks burning oil is not good for environment, so PCV's throughput is only enough for a healthy engine. When I pull dipstick from neighbor's VW with a running engine, I hear loud air hissing, and the engine literally starts to strangle. Nothing like that in both P2s we have. So, what is this all about: if the piston rings are stuck and there's a lot of blow-by gases in the crankcase, even healthy PCV will have troubles creating enough vacuum. I'd do cylinder pressure test to see how bad the rings are.
    2002 V70 (sold)
    2005 XC70 (Telos Road took it. Did a chassis swap)
    2016 XC60 (sold, P.O.S.)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Virginia Beach
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xfingers View Post
    Thanks, Astro14, very interesting. So I better take off the timing cover and see if oil's dripping down from camshaft seals. And you may be suggesting that since I'm in there anyway, might as well replace all three seals (2 cam, 1 crank) regardless which one's leaking. Also I can't ignore the rear intake cam seal, somehow doing the front intake cam seal requires it. Good info on the seal drivers. Would I need to lock the cams if I'm only replacing the crankshaft seal?...I have replaced timing belt once, FWIW.

    Were you convinced your seal failure resulted from PCV blockage even tho positive glove test? Did you go ahead and replace PCV at that point? (I bet you did!)
    When I pulled the timing cover, the intake cam front seal was literally pushed out of the head. It was easy to see... The rest of the seals looked good, but it took an extra 30 minutes to do the exhaust cam seal and the crank seal. The exhaust cam has the VVT, so setting that back up took a bit of fiddling. Good manual (on line or paper) is a must.

    If it's the crank seal, no need to lock the cams. Crank seal is easy, but I bought a foot of PVC pipe (2", I think, maybe 2 1/2"...take the seal to Lowe's and match it up) then cut it to about 3" length to make a seal driver that fit over the crank snout.

    I would replace the timing belt, since it's got oil on it...if the pulley and tensioner are new, then leave them, but if they've got some miles, replace them too. If you're over 150,000 miles and your water pump is original, well...I would replace that while you're in there.

    The rear intake cam seal is just a plug that covers the cam. You have to pull that plug, which damages it, in order to lock the cam, so you might as well replace that one, too. I did the rear exhaust cam as I pulled the position sensor just to see, and there was some oil in there.

    Leave the upper engine mount off when you finish the cam seals. That makes the PCV hose replacement easier. I got the entire kit from IPD. Just get the kit with all new hoses. It's $300, roughly, but those hoses get brittle with age, and you're better off replacing.

    Make certain that you clean the passage from block to oil pan where the breather box bolts up. Get every bit of carbon out of there, or all your new plumbing won't work (ask me how I know this...) A bronze rifle brush is very useful. I changed the oil not long after doing this.

    I've never seen a seal pushed out of an engine like this one. It had to be PCV, but it was the carbon inside the block that was really plugging things up. You'll see the two fittings behind the breather box...and you'll need a shop vac and that rifle brush to get in there. I thought about dropping the oil pan to really clean it...and in retrospect, I probably should have done that the first time...

    I thought I had got all the carbon when I first did the PCV...but my crank seal was leaking from the time I put it in...and it was because I hadn't removed all the carbon deep in the block...so, 5,000 miles after doing the PCV the first time, I was pulling it off again, in addition to replacing the crank seal again...

    I changed the oil this past weekend (Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 Euro formula) and the engine has zero leaks. Nice and dry underneath, 10,000 miles after the second PCV job. So, I'm certain I got it right...the second time....and it was the carbon in the block that was the issue.
    Last edited by Astro14; 09-22-2015 at 07:46 AM.
    Current Fleet:
    2016 Tundra Crewmax 4WD 1794
    2005 MB S600 (114K, Michelin AS3+, LiquiMoly 0W40)
    2005 MB SL600 (50K, Michelin AS4, Mobil 1 0W40)
    2004 V70R (six speed M66, Mobil 1 5W30)
    2002 V70-XC (275K, HPL Euro 0W30)
    2002 V70-T5 (216K, IPD bars, Bilsteins)
    2001 V70-T5 (120K, IPD downpipe, cat back and other mods)
    1932 Packard Sedan (straight 8, dual sidemounts, original paint and interior, Shell Rotella 15W40)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    582

    Default

    Wow, Astro14, your info is good but also intense...so you're saying dropping the pan the second go-round and actually reaching up and scraping carbon off the INSIDE of the engine block made the difference? And now you'd be adding the new oil pan gasket as part of the job, How were you cleaning the inside?

    I looked more today, took off the timing belt covers, cleaned everything, started the car and got the oil to start dripping real good. Cut the engine and started looking around. It's a heavy, steady drip coming off passenger front corner of oil sump/pan next to oil filter. It's hard to trace it back from there but I can see underneath the crank also is pretty wet, maybe around the oil pump/seal. I don't think the camshaft seals are leaking because I'm just not seeing much oil up there at all, nothing like the patch of thick oil I see on the bottom of the oil pan. The pulleys have some oil residue but I'm thinking that's being whipped up by the belts from somewhere else. There's no visible trail of oil leading down from the cams. I did this a couple times (once with TB covers off) with the same result. So replacing the crankshaft seal is "easy"?

    Astro14, when your crankshaft seal leaked after the first time you did the PCV, you were losing vacuum/suction when PCV was in "boost" mode? And the reason why air was forcing out your crank seal was because carbon buildup on the walls was preventing it from evacuating the normal route thru PCV tube? What was mileage when you did PCV the first time?

    Thanks!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    Northeast
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    Default

    Astro14 has some good info on cleaning the passages in the engine block leading to oil pan when replacing PCV system in this thread:
    http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showth...ht=timing+belt
    Last edited by Xfingers; 10-23-2015 at 06:56 AM.

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