Angle Gear modification

[bg2128506]

I need some advice from the forum members on the angle gear modification.

The summary is that my xc70 2001 developed pretty nasty sound at about 30 mph and up to 55, at which point the sound reduced.
While oil changing, I always saw angle gear being wet; the dealership even did re-sealing at one point on extended warranty and refused to replace the angle gear.

So, I put the car on the jack-stands, and with engaged gear front wheels rotated while fore/aft driveshaft remained still. Awful sound produced by the angle gear.

Next I browsed the forum posts, and took the angle gear out. Naturally, collar inner splines were worn out (not fully stripped though), as well outer splines as on the angle gear counterpart (that hollow axle).

I failed to remove the collar so I could loctite it in place.
Therefore the next option is to "throw away the bad stuff" from inside the the angle gear and replace it (see http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13260).

According to lookforjoe, you can remove all BG internals and put the housing back so it would brace the collar on the tranny.

I decided the remove the hollow axle so to eliminate that splined coupling.
But when I reviewed that solution under the car, it seems that the collar will nearly touch the plastic seal on the bevel gear. Naturally, if collar decides to move out of the tranny, it will grind off the seal or push it inside the now empty BG. Under the normal conditions, it seems that that hollow axle holds the collar in place: first 5 cm are splined, than the diameter of axle increases - and it actually touches the collar by this part when installed.

But, since the whole idea is to eliminate the sound, I need the de-couple the tranny and BG.

My friend suggested to grind off that splines on the axle so it would not contact the inner splines on the collar. But I think the axle will still touch the collar due to that bigger diameter part, so I will have the rotating collar and standing still BG axle and the whole bunch of noise not to mention they are going to wear down.

So the only options seems to totally eliminate the BG, take off the collar and loctite it in place - which I trying to avoid due that nightmare to remove it.

Any suggestions and opinions are greatly appreciated.

[8pack]

Send an email to Mesa200xc on here. I have the same problem on a 2000. I have the bevel gear removed and also would not trust using the bevel gear seal to retain the collar.

I am going to try Mesa's solution which is elegantly simple......

1. He says NO LOCTITE. You can't get the collar off later if you need or want to and it may not even hold as it is very hard to clean all the oil from the splines without contaminating the transmission fluid....
   
2. Leave Bevel Gear out.
   
3. Replace axle back into transmission with the collar replaced back on the transmission output shaft splines.
   
4. Couple 2 small Hose clamps together by dissassembling them individually then reassembleing them as a single clamp on the axle. Take the end of one and slide it into the gear/screw on the other and then repeat on the other end.
   
5. Tighten the clamps down with the worm gear/screws exaclty opposite each other so the axle stays balanced. They should be positioned about an 1/8" away from the end of the collar when tightened. This prevents the collar from sliding off.

The axle and collar rotate together so there is apparently no rubbing or grinding.....

Contact Mesa directly to get his feedabck as he has actually done it......I owe him a call to confirm I have it well understood.

[8pack]

UPDATE: Completed bypass/elimination of the bevel gear...see link below
http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19013

[Astro14]

I understand that this can be done....followed a couple of threads on the subject recently.

But I am still lost on the reason...buying an AWD car, and then removing the components that make it AWD, simply makes no sense to me, unless it's a stop-gap measure while awaiting parts.

Not repairing the car destroys any resale value it might have, you can't trade it in or sell it now that this has been done to it.

If you don't need the traction of an AWD, why did you buy an AWD XC in the first place? AWD requires more maintenance, gets poorer mileage and costs more to buy. That's true of every make of car out there (BMW, MB, all of them, except Subaru, which only makes AWD). So, it only makes sense to buy an AWD if you need the AWD.

If you don't need AWD, why not just get a V70 instead of trying to turn an XC into a V70?

[8pack]

Very Simple. I bought it in 2004 with 30k miles on it. I have racked up an additional 125k. I can't afford a repalcement car right now and need to have it on the road. I trade between this car and 2001 Saab 9-5 with 130k miles on it that I also live underneath. At any given point in time the goal is to try and have one vehicle working...

I would love to put the Bevel Gear back on which is why the axle seal surfaces are all wrapped in protection.

A new one is $1600+ and Eerie wants $1100 for a used one, any other place is $650 for one (plus shipping) with no guarantee and no idea how many real miles are on it or if proper tire rrotation was done etc. Used parts for this particular item are just a total crap shoot. I can't see putting that kind of money into a car that right now keeps giving me fits.

I thought I was all set after this fix and if it gave me some trouble free miles would consider getting a new BG, but if you hop back to the 2000 forum you will see my Power Steering or Rack is now acting up after having this back on the road for 25 miles..........also there is a list of all the other things I have had to do in the last 90 days...

So, I would love my car to be AWD, I don't need or want a FWD car otherwise I wouldn't have bought one in 2004, putting a $1600+ Part back on it (assuming my labor is free) is unlikely to give me my money back if I wanted to sell it, this repair can be easily reversed by putting the BG on as long as you have taken the time to protect the mating surfaces......my wife drives a 2007 AWD with 90k miles on it, because she needs AWD...................

Others may be in the same or a similar position which is why I posted this. If you only have one car, can't afford a or want to do a $2500 fix (someone else does the work, I am lucky enough to be able to figure it out and do it myself) on an 11YO car with high miles that is worth at best $4k (maybe 5 on a lucky day) and need to have it on the road, this solution works............Time, money, and practicality drive the decision making process. If anyone reading this has the money and time and feels the economic trade offs are worth it, I strongly recommend repalcing the bevel gear with a new or gauranteed one.....................

If you have a 2000 BG that you know is in good shape or where to find one please let me know and I will be more than happy to reinstall it. If you know what my power steering issue is in the thread link below please chime in also as I would like to get this all sorted out.....


http://www.v70xc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19020

Thanks

[bg2128506]

8pack, we finished nose to nose; I also did the job this weekend.

So, I wanted to follow hose clamps solution, but the original thread, which suggested it, also mentioned putting collar on loctite and then adding clamps. And clamps should stay millimeter away from the collar due to mismatching rotating speeds in turns. So the solution does not look perfect either.

So I retreated to modify the gear as close as possible to the original mechanical design. So look at the picture: my friend mechanic removed all the splines on turbular BG shaft on the grinding machine.

The other findings: the seal on the LS of BG housing cannot be pushed inside of BG housing without breaking it. It tried to mallet it in only bending it. But it comes effortlessly out, which is easy having BG disassembled. So I would say it is pretty much safe to remove the turbular shaft and replace BG housing - the collar will stay in place by BG housing.

Mine rig in the end has the BG fully assembled with ground off splines, boltd back to the tranny.

I have also completely removed propeller shaft and not planning to return to AWD for the rest of the car's life (which lasts until tranny is shot).

The rests of the steps were:
- removed RHS axle bolt;
- removed ball joint bolt;
- put chain over the support arm and pried it with the pipe down;
- released ball joint;
- unbolted bearing;
- tapped slightly with mallet and wooden block the axle from the hub; hub came off;
- turned away the hub;
- pulled out the axle;
- replaced the leaking inner boot on the axle;
- removed TWC (unbolted from turbo and from exhaust; removed support on the bottom; removed upped 02 sensor);
- now, removing forward bolts on the propeller shaft was ok, except those at the top: requires long socket extensions and/or u-joint for sockets; do not forget to mark the alignment if planning to reinstall;
- pushed shaft out by inserting the bolt into the flange from the BG side and pried against the BG housing;
- unbolted BG; upper bolts need long socket extension;
- slid to the right, rotated and lowered BG;
- opened BG and discovered the gears are fine and there are no gold coins to justify $1680 price tag.

The assembling was not bad either, except I could not use torque wrench on BG's 3 lower bolts and did it approximately.
Replaced gaskets and bolts on both sides of TWC.
It was a bit tricky to get the ball joint's bolt back into the arm.

Now, I checked that my BG turbular shaft does not rotate. Therefore, I am not planning to put any oil in (although I re-sealed it: and my Volvo dealership did re-seal it once according to technical bulletin but never beveled the inside edge - I love them. So neither did I).

Drives pretty well and smooth so far. While on jackstands, radiator started to leak quite nasty . I love volvos.

I personally suspect my AWD never quite worked. While in the rain, on in the snow, Volvo started to whine badly for some 10 minutes. Now I think it should have been that viscose coupler. My dealer never found anything wrong, and I failed to reproduce that. Given the noise has always accompanied AWD engagement, I conclude the AWD stopped to work quite a while ago, and I haven't noticed that. So why do I need it at all?

[Astro14]

Thanks 8 Pack - now I understand...given the miles on the car and your budget constraints, you're accepting the reduced capability and value because the repair isn't worth it...and you can re-install the BG if one becomes available since you took the time to protect the driveshaft from corrosion. For your sake (and your wallet's), I hope one becomes available...any local wrecking yards?

Cheers,

[8pack]

BG212 - interesting solution. ECBSYKES did similar as you if I understand it correctly except he only bolted the left side of the BG housing back to the tranny. He is relying on the seal to hold the collar in place which it sounds like you confirmed. I am still suspect of that as it may eventually wear through the seal.....

In your case, by grinding the splines off the BG, it seems to me that the output shaft on the BG side would be pushing against the C clip and you would be relying on that to hold everything together. Since the C clip is spinning with the collar it seems that it could wear through. I imagine if the collar is restricted from sliding back into the BG on the BG side that is not an issue.

Sounds like you had as much stuff to do as I did!

A few points to make the job easier:

1. Don't remove the ball joint, disconnect the 2 bolts from the strut.
2. No need to remove the hub, that is a waste of time
3. Once the spindle is free from the Struts, just pull it down and away and the axle will come free. As it comes free you can swivel the spindle back out of the way.
3. You can disconnect the outer tie rod to make it easier, but don't need to.

Way easier than dealing with the ball joint. I have had both sides apart multiple times and this is by far the easiest and fastest way No chains, no prying no messing with difficult ball joint bolts etc.

On the prop shaft, no need for extensions etc. Just get both front wheels and the rear wheels off the ground and rotate the shaft around...way easier and takes 10 mins to take the prop shaft off.

Let us know how it holds up...

[bg2128506]

8pack,
I tried to avoid doing anything which would require wheel alignment later on. Therefore I suppose the tie rod is not a good idea. If detaching the strut keeps the alignment intact, then I will do that next time: ball joint is way too tough.

I did not remove the wheel hub either: just swiveled toward back once axle was free from it.

In total though, I spent a day disassembling, and 3 hours assembling. Next time it will be faster.

Forgot to mention, that when I inserted the tubular shaft into the collar on the tranny to investigate how well it was done, the thicker part of the shaft did not touch the collar at all, therefore I assume the collar stays in place not by the shaft, and likely by the gasket in BG. So I seems that the single left part of BG housing is enough to keep the collar steady.

[Astro14]

I wonder about this step: Don't remove the ball joint, disconnect the 2 bolts from the strut.

While that may appear to be easier, there may be reasons why Volvo doesn't take that approach. A couple of thoughts: 1. the bolts themselves are listed as not reusable - whether that's because they are torque to yield, or coated isn't clear to me, but they're not supposed to be re-used. 2. the balljoint is a press fit into the strut, multiple times taking the balljoint out and re-installing reduces the tightness of the fit. 3. since the joint is supposed to be pressed in to the strut, using the bolts to pull it into the strut housing (unless you've got a press set up that works on the car...) will not install it as tightly...part of the torque (bolt stretch) will be to pull the joint together instead of all of the bolt stretch being applied to just holding the joint.

I know the ball joint is a PITA, you have to get a crow's foot wrench for the nut while holding the stud with a Torx, but there may be very good engineering reasons why you don't want to repeatedly R&R the balljoint from the strut housing...