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The US Dep. of Trans. contacted me on 1/9 regarding the ETM problem. A very nice rep. had retrieved my name from a Volvo complaint. He is compiling info on the type of problems arose from a faulty ETM. As of right now, if you have had ETM work done, Volvo will refund labor costs.
Next step, I hope, recall and replace.
Go to www.VEXEDvolvo.org for additional info.
Does Volvo have a redesigned ETM?Quote:
Originally Posted by cookeville
Ta-ta, j.
This is the first I have heard of an investigation by the Dept. of Transportation. Please provide more information. Who did you contact? Where and how did you file a complaint? What will be done with the information? I would like to file a complaint anywhere and everywhere. I still have not been contacted by NHSTA eventhough I have contacted them more than once and requested an email or call. We must get the word out about this dangerous design and force a recall not just a warranty extension.
* sigh *
I'll say it once again .....
Go to www.VEXEDvolvo.org ..... click on FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) and scan about halfway down the page.
Simple "no" would have sufficed :rolleyes:
Here's an e-mail exchange I had with Volvo US over the past few days (please read my initial e-mail at the bottom, first):
Dear Marc,
Thank you for contacting Volvo Cars of North America.
The new electronic throttle module is an upgraded version of the original. In addition, our engineers will also be releasing new software for the electronic throttle module to our authorized retailers in March 2006.
Sincerely,
Bill Clark
Volvo Cars of North America
> To : [email protected]
> Subject : FW: File No: XXXXX Date : Tue, 03
> Jan 2006, 09:29:37 AM EST
>
>
> If someone could answer my question: Is the replacement ETM of the same design as the original or is it an improved design? If it's not an improved design, then it seems likely I'll be dealing with the ETM issue again in the near future.
I've e-mailed your HQ in Sweden requesting this information several times, and have been told "do not worry." Apparently, headquarters is extremely reticent on this point, which leads me to believe the answer isn't likely to be acceptable.
> Still, I'll remain guardedly optimistic pending your answer.
> Thank you,
> Marc
I have neglected this site for a while.
The ETM now being installed in Volvo part number 8644347. I have reports that they have failed: driving out the door of the Volvo dealer, 7,000 miles, 12,000 miles and 20,000 miles. The current wiper in the throttle position sensor has 12 fingers. I have received resistance films that show full penetrations on one film and 6 penetrations on a different film. My theory on this is that those 9 fingers finally penetrated the thick film resistor and found the smooth plastic backing and could go no deeper. The remaining fingers finally scraped away enough of the thick film resistor that they no longer made contact.
If anyone has any evidence to the contrary, a part number from you service ticket, that shows a different part number being installed let me know.
Don Willson
[email protected]
VEXEDvolvo.org
Our friends at the Volvo Club of America (VCOA) have published more about the ETM defect in their current "Rolling" magazine.
P. 8 ("Volvo in the News) says that "Volvo has voluntarily decided..." to extend the ETM warranty to 10 yrs./200,000 mi. The article says later on that "[t]he agreement was reached as a result of working with the California Air Resources Board..." Those of us that have watched this debacle should chuckle at the VCOA's use of the works "voluntarily" and "working with" in the article.
The most interesting thing about the VCOA article states:
"The electronically controlled throttle module of the fuel injection system can malfunction due to corrosion and get stuck..."
Are they serious? Has anybody heard of "corrosion" causing the ETM defect? In my case, our XC was always garaged from the day we bought it until the day the ETM defect stranded me in a strange town in California. "Corrosion?" Baloney. Anybody ever hear of an ETM getting "stuck?" The onboard computer puts the car into "limp-in" mode when the ETM defect occurs.
This fiasco just keeps getting stranger and stranger. Now, they are attributing the ETM design defect to "corrosion." If you believe this, I have a bridge I want you to buy!
Edmonds17
VOCA, although closely aligned with Volvo Cars of North America, is not a part of the company. Their writer's use of "Corrosion" and "stuck" in the Rolling summary are certainly not technically the best choice of words but the gist isn't so far off. The important point for most people is to learn about the extended warranty not the technical aspects of the underlying problem.
Bill
I agree it is necessary for Volvo owners to fully understand what is covered under the 10/200,000 ETM warranty, but the owner must also have a basic understanding the the failure. We are already reading posts on various forums of owners being denied a new ETM because the computer did not have the proper codes. At times the ETM was cleaned and the owners showed up within days with a fully failed ETM. People must also be informed that the replacement ETMs are also failing at even higher rates (as early as 12,000 miles). I own a 01 Cross Country and was stranded 1000 miles from home on a busy interstate. I currently won't drive my XC on the highway, out of fear of another failure. When mine died, I had no prior warning. Anyone with this ETM should be hopping mad and not just thanking Volvo for an extended warranty. This should be a redesign.
I encourage everyone to read all of Don Wilson's website and make a formal complaint with NHSTA.
http://vexedvolvo.org/
I completely DISAGREE, this incorrect description of cause of failure, sidesteps the issue, and tries to place blame on the customer.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillAileo
I was told ".... it was my fault for using cheap gas and failing to properly maintain the air filtration system". I had ALL my scheduled maintenance done at Dealer Garages, at the specified intervals, and at great expense. I ALWAYS used the best premium fuel in my C70 .... who wouldn't? This is the Corporate byline of "Corrosion" and "Stuck" that they try to heap on us.
Their deceiptful choice of words is complete hogwash, the real issue is poor design, and their early knowledge that this part would fail. They knew this in late '98, BEFORE the first defective ETM was shipped.
I think the important point is that Volvo knew about this, and didn't care enough about safety, reliability, their customers OR their reputation. All their feigned "Compliance" comes ONLY after the significant effort of the Attorneys, CARB and VEXED to bring, and keep, this issue in the spotlight.
Their "Extended Warranty" is a MINIMUM response to the problem, and will leave many unsuspecting customers with a perpetual lurking timebomb under the hood.
When Volvo replaces your ETM, does the ten years/200K warranty apply to the replaced ETM or to the car itself?
Thanks for any enlightment.
Ta-ta, j.
I have a number of questions regarding the ETM issue:
I am buying my 1990 V70 XC from my mother-in-law. She paid over $800 for replacement of part 8644347 Throttle Body at 68k miles and AGAIN at 77k miles. She is out of pocket for $1700 for these two ETM repairs. Do we have a case against the dealership for one or both of these repairs?
Am I waiting for yet another failure of the same part?
Do I need to schedule the software upgrade in March?
Is this going to be an official recall at some point, and are we eligible for refund of the two repairs?
I read on a post that the ETM should be under warranty to 70k iles, but my warranty book does not list the ETM. It mentions MAF, Fuel Pressure Regulator, Multi point Fuel injection (SFI), and Control Module, with only the SFI covered to 80,000 miles. Wher does the ETM fit into the original warranty?
Where can I best follow the latest on the lawsuit and Volvo's policy on the issue?
Thanks,
New Owner Ray
Davis, CA
I've been thinking since I had my ETM changed, and now you guys say that volvo will give a 200,000 mile warrenty on the ETM, I have about 143.000, and wondering since I've changed it(138.000) will it start from when it was replaced, or at 200.000 exact? And since I didn't buy the ETM from the dealer and from ebay, is the throttle body itself covered reguardless in the future if anything happens? I hope it's covered, afterall with all the problems volvo is having it should be.
Rkex: I'll try to answer a few of your questions.
Yes, you are waiting for the ETM to die again. Volvo keeps putting in the same defective part. This is why the defect keeps reoccurring. Dumb. Don't drive on a freeway or a busy highway. Keep a cell phone in the car and get towing insurance.
I don't think anybody knows much about the alleged software upgrade that has been rumored. The defect isn't in the software. The ETM literally wears out due to the type of contact sensor used in the ETM. (See "www.VEXEDVolvo.com") The defective ETM comes from the Magnetti Marelli Div. of Fiat. Need I say more?
There is probably not going to be a recall. Volvo would have to redesign the part first. Volvo is too cheap to do this. Volvo only wants to fix defective ETM's as they die. NHTSA is currently investigating whether to mandate a safety recall by Volvo. Unless NHTSA mandates it, Volvo won't do it.
There is, in California, a 70,000 air pollution warranty in your Owner's Manual. Technically, your ETM is part of the air pollution equipment on the car. You are long past this warranty at this point.
Your relative has a legitimate claim that Volvo should have paid for the first ETM failure because, in California, it was warranted to function properly for the first 70,000 miles. Send me a private email and I'll try to put you in contact with the Calif. lawyers that are litigating against Volvo in Sacramento. The lawyers might want to talk to your relative about Volvos failure to honor their warranty.
Edmonds17
Edmonds-
Thanks for the reply... wish the news was better. I live in California but my mother-in-law lives in Oregon and the ETM work was done there (twice). I'll fill out the info on the law firm's website and hope for the best. The fact that the replacement ETM lasted only 8,000 miles is not reassuring.
Ray
ETM part 8644347
Don Wilson at vexedvolvo.org is attempting to document the failures of the replacement parts. If you can provide him with information, please check out his website. Don has reports of them failing as early as 12,000 miles. I hate to hear failures at 8,000. These cars are unsafe to drive on highways or in rural areas. Anyone with this car should have a cell phone and towing insurance.
Excuse my ignorance. What is the ETM that is mentioned many times over as a continual problem
Robert-
Check out the FAQ at vexedvolvo.org that is recommended elswhere in this thread. I found it to be the best source of info, all in one place.
Ray
1999 V70 XC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud
* sigh *
Missed it...damn but I think the ETM's got a grilling on UK television tonight, the program was Watchdog on the BBC, channel 1. If anyone saw it could you PM me as I have a failed unit here and they are welcome to my 5 page letter to Volvo where they fobbed me off. Thanks
Edit edit, yes I found it and here is the link http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/report...20060214.shtml and her is the funny bit
Quote:
Volvo Car UK has asked Volvo drivers who are experiencing difficulties with their ETM to contact their customer relations department, or their local Volvo dealer.
It also plans to introduce a software upgrade from April 2006 onwards, which will reduce the likelihood of issues with the ETM. Volvo says it will make this available, at no charge, to customers with affected cars who contact their customer relations department.
For more information on the US response to the ETM issue, click here.
To contact Volvo customer relations, call 0845 756 4636.
Watch out for a seperate post for UK ETM's
I read that article from the BBC.co.uk. One fact jumped out at me.
The BBC article says that, in the US and Canada, 75,000 Volvos have had the problem. Amazing. 75,000 Volvo cars is an awful lot of unhappy owners. If my math. is correct, this means that Volvo dealers have received approx. $75. Million dollars so far to replace defective ETM's. Wow. No wonder dealers stock the part! They must be making a fortune on this defect.
It is amazing that Volvo sales were only down 10% in 2005 if these numbers are correct. Customers are "voting with their feet" and shopping elsewhere for a reliable car. This is infortunate. Volvos used to have a reputation for being reliable.
Edmonds17
Last week I reported seeing an '01 Volvo V70XC being hauled to Ravenna Motors in Seattle. I surmised that it had a defective ETM. Well, it has happened again.
I was driving Northbound on NE 25th St. in North Seattle. Was passed by another tow truck going Southbound. Probably going to Ravenna Motors which was only about 15 blocks away. Was hauling what appeared to be an '01 V70XC. No apparent body damage. I suspect it was yet another dead Volvo due to a defective ETM. Some poor Volvo owner learned what we already know. '99-01 Volvos are not dependable.
The good news is that he probably won't have to pay the cost of replacing the defective ETM or his towing costs. The bad news is that Ravenna Motors will install another defective ETM.
Maybe the report from the BBC that Volvo has had 75,000 defective ETM's in the US and Canada is accurate. If Volvo recalled the cars with defective ETM's, then Volvo wouldn't have to pay towing/hauling charges.
Edmonds17
what the hell do you see all these things from. I live in New England and drives by the nice towns all the time, I see more Volvo XC than Civics. I have never seen them being towed. Focus or Hyundai on the other hand, I see them a LOT
1) Seattle is HUGE. Driving a few miles down the primary I-5 corridor will bring literally hundreds of thousands of vehicles into view. It's a Volume/Probability thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by cossie1600
2) According to Volvo, we "Use Cheap Gas" and "Fail to properly maintain the air filtration systems". You see, we're just a bunch of dumb-ass hicks who don't appreciate a fine car that should last a LIFETIME if properly maintained. It's our fault, ask Dwayne at SMC, Inc. :mad:
Cossie1600: I'm just reporting what I see.
Unusual to see a relatively new Volvo XC being hauled. They stand out.
Remember that Volvo has reported up to a 94% failure rate prior to 100,000 miles. When the engine dies, the four-wheel drive mechanism requires that all four tires be lifted off the ground. The most common way to do this is by using a ramp truck that can haul the XC. This is what I have seen.
Ramp truck owners must love to get calls from Volvo XC owners.
Edmonds17
FWIW: It is my understanding that AWD vehicles should never be towed but always hauled in when, for whatever reason, they aren't being moved under their own power. Seeing an '01 XC70 being hauled may be seeing a vehicle with an ETM problem but it could also be on that carrier for a host of other reasons.
Bill
This is absolutely true.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillAileo
However, knowing that 260,000 vehicles (in the USA) have a known defectively designed ETM with a failure rate of 94% in 100,000 kinda raises the odds, wouldn't you say?
Consider also that an '01 XC70 is now 5 years old, averaging 20,000/year, puts it right at 100,000, a prime target. Not an unreasonable assumption.