Printable View
Since many ATFs are backward compatible, their spec sheets frequently list oils that do not meet the same specs. I know others have been using Toyota T-IV in the Volvo AW-5550s without apparent problems, but I have not seen any literature that confirms it JWS 3309 compliant.
flushing is done.
So far no problem nor improvement are found.
Will see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBoKwok
Thanks BillAileo, MoeB and BoBoKwok
I have not been able to locate Mobil 3309 in South Africa (yet) and the alternative - the Volvo branded transmission fluid - is too awful to contemplate (price-wise, that is!)
I probably should have added that I would personally have no problem using Toyota T-IV if my only other choice was to get ripped off by Volvo.
,,, and just to quantify the rip-off: the Volvo dealer charges the equivalent of US$75 for a 4 liter container of ATF - the Toyota dealer is satisfied with $28 for 4 liters of T-IV!
So this or next week-end I will do a flush using Toyota T-IV ATF!
Is there a trick for accessing the tranny dispstick on a 2004 XC70? From the top of the engine I can just manage to get my hand on it. I can relieve the metal clip and pull up on the dipstick access is so bad I have not tried to pull it all the way out. I can't imagine trying to do this while the engine is running to even begin to get a reading on the oil level. THere was an earlier thread about removing air intake to filter unit. It seems there is much else inthe way on my vehicle.
I practiced with the car off and wore a long sleeve TShirt that was tucked into my mechanics gloves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsandek
Took me a while, but I finally got a feel as to how it needed to be done....could pretty much do it without looking by the last time I did my drain/fill.
Dipstick is maybe 6 inches long, made of yellow plastic.
Does anybody know the diameter of the (yellow) dipstick / filler hole for the '02 XC tranny? Strange question, but I have been all over and not been able to find a long-necked funnel to fill the tranny. I want to improvise a funnel by using a length of clear plastic pipe fitted with a normal funnel ... and short of stripping and measuring I figured its worth asking first.
I finally got enough T-IV fluid [16 liters] from two Toyota dealers at opposite ends of town, the clear pipe and I will hopefully have the improvised funnel by the weekend! Just getting everything was already a mission ...
So after threatening for some time now it is definitely OUT with the OLD ATF and IN with the NEW this weekend.
But a comment in another thread sparked the question as to whether I should have the AT software updated? Is it worth the +/- $120? I am not sure when the tranny software on my '02 has last been updated - more than 2 years ago, I suspect.
I did it this morning - pumped through 16.1 litres of Toyota T-IV.
The old ATF was a dark chocolate colour and left distinct dreges at the bottom of the measuring cup when left standing for a while. Oddly enough, there was only a thin layer of metal particles on the drain plug!
It took me about 2.5 - 3 hours - measuring the "out" and "in" was quite time consuming, as was the SLOW fill process as it seems that there were many air blocks in the funnel (maybe it is just the particular funnel that I used?).
The difference is remarkable - the shifts are much smoother and almost imperceptable again.
If you change the transmission fluid using the "Gibbons Method", do you have to reset the Fluid Change Counter? In the procuedures I have from an online repair manual that I subscribe to, it speaks of resetting the Fluid Change Counter. Also, is the Toyota T-IV Transmission the correct fluid to use in XC if changing out the entire system as PierreC did. Or is it best to used Volvo oil since it the "Gibbons Method" may not clear everything out.
msir1995 I had asked the same question before I decided to use the T-IV ATF, and all the answers came back positive. Btw, in order to get as much as possible if not all the old ATF out (7.5 litres of the stuff) I pumped through 16.1 litres of the new ...Quote:
Originally Posted by msir1995
Is there enough ground clearance to get to the transmission drain plug, or do you have to jack up the car?
Jacking it up makes it a lot easier to get plastic fairing thingy off (that covers the bottom of the engine, trans, CV shafts, etc). Then the car can be lowered back down so the draining fluid doesn't have to drop as far (less potential splashing). Absolutely have it flat on the ground to check the fluid.
Is the transmission drain plug crush washer the same size as the engine oil ??
I was able to do mine without raising the car. I am 6'1", 180 lb. If you are much heavier than that you will probably need to lift the car. It was a stretch to get to the rear bolts for the under shield, but it still would not have worth the trouble to jack up the car in my case.Quote:
Originally Posted by msir1995
Yep, its the same size.Quote:
Originally Posted by msir1995
Bill
Gibbons, PierreC, JRL and others
Well, I changed my transmission fluid today using the Gibbons method. I have driven the care about 25 miles and shifts seem to be getting less harsh. At 115K and not knowing if the fluid has ever been changed, needless to say, it was dark brown. In all I used about 15.3 quarts and was able to get a wholesale price of $3.80 per quart for the T-IV ATF fluid at our local Toyota dealer. I checked with our Vovlo dealer and not sure if they would have given me a price break. The girl at the parts counter let me see her screen and it is crazy what they charge for each quart. The retail price is about $19 per quart and cost is around $9 per quart. I just don't get it, Mobil 3309 is designed for Vovlo 5 speed automatics aisin warner transmissions and Toyota transmissions that take T-IV fluid. Why the large price difference, I don't know. I just hope that my transmission will not self destruct with the T-IV fluid. The service folks kept discouraging the tranmission change out. I am almost convinced that they are leveraging Volvo's instructions to never change the fluid unless towing a trailer. While at the same time, realizing that you have to service a tranmission regualry and no such thing as lifetime fluid. I just wonder that if the dealer wants the tranmission to fail so that they can obtain the work in the future. anyways, hopefully this will do the trick. Thanks again
msir1995:
Congratulations on taking the plunge ... [thumbup]
It is now a week since I had changed my car's transmission fluid and the shifts are actually getting smoother as time goes on. There was an immediate improvement after the flush, but a week later there has definitely been a further improvement.
I hope that you will have the same experience![happy][happy][happy]
This was my first tranny flush (at 109.000 km - almost 70.000 miles) and I will do the next one at 180.000 km. That is the scheduled time for the cambelt replacement, i.e. it is a "big" service anyway, so I may just as well do a transmission flush too.
On using T-IV: In another thread [Transmission Service -What Do You Think] I had posted a quote form the Mobil 3309 technical specification brochure, which effectively states that Mobil 3309 can be used in applications where T-IV is prescribed (Lexus, Toyota). I presumed that the converse applies and that T-IV can be used where Mobil 3309 is approved ... so I am not overly worried by the fact that I had used T-IV.
By this logic, Castrol Import Multivehicle ATF should also be OK since it can be used where T-IV is required. However, it says "Volvo (except 5 speed)" in the recommended use list. I am not saying T-IV is not suitable in the AW 5550 (I believe it is), just that you cannot use converse applicability since ATFs are often backward compatible with fluids that will not work in the same applications the newer ATF will.Quote:
Originally Posted by PierreC
on edit: Since Castrol Multivehicle appears to now be JWS 3309 compliant (see below), change my analogy to Toyota T-3 instead. :)
MoeB,
I wonder if the Castrol link you posted is out of date. Check out the data sheet that is linked to that page: http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...s_ImportMV.pdf
It says that the fluid meets "All specifications" for Volvos. It also says it meets the JWS-3309 specification for Aisin-Warner transmissions!
Bill
Could be, I don't know. I just went to Castrol's site and pulled it up this morning. :confused: Be good news if it was, actually.
On edit: I looked at the creation date of the PDF and it's 9-6-2007. The most recent date I could find in the web page source code (besides the copyright) is 11-7-2006, so it does appear that the web page is out of date and the PDF is pretty recent. Looks like we have a synthetic blend option for ATF in these things. Nice catch, Bill!
MoeB: You are right, of course ... maybe it was just desperation on my side as my ONLY alternative to the Volvo branded ATF was the T-IV. Mobil 3309 does not seem to be available in South Africa ...Quote:
Originally Posted by MoeB
PierreC:
Well you and I will be the test bed for the T-IV fluid. I also noted the car smoothing out as I drove it more. I plan on more frequent changes. I thought about at least draining the fluid every 10-15,000 miles. I figure that is about 3.5 quarts. I have more than opne vehicle so this one will only see about 6,000 miles per year. I assume you drive more than that and keep us posted if any issues arise as a result of this T-IV fluid.
msir1995Quote:
Originally Posted by msir1995
Actually, the XC is our "long distance holiday" car [my beach cottage is some 750 miles away from where I live, and we sometimes take a "bad road" detour to get there] and beyond that my wife drives it around town. I commute in a 2004 S60 2.0T [a model not available in the USA] and son drives a 1996 850 GLT going on 300.000 km and still in excellent condition - both manual transmission.
Our summer holiday [remember, we're in the southern hemisphere] is coming up in about 6 weeks' time and I will drive at least 2500 - 3000 miles over a period of 3 - 4 weeks. That should give a good indication ...
Oh, and I recall another member, BoBoKwok, also doing a flush with T-IV quite a while ago - maybe he can give us an up to date report?
I have ~1500km after flushing with Type IV
Nothing special are found.
The transmission is not perfect but it is slightly better than before flushing
I am going to check from local Volvo whether I have the most update software or not soon. I hope it won't cost me too much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PierreC
Thanks BoBoKwok for the update.
Are there any other forum members who used T-IV for flushing the ATF? Please tell us of your experience (distance since flush, side effects if any etc.) so that we can track its applicability.
Maybe we should start a new thread? And also include the new Castrol Import Multivehicle ATF [as discovered by BillAileo recently - see earlier post in this thread]?
I cant seem to find this anywhere in canada (aside from the volvo stealership).
anyone know who has or can get this in toronto? last thing I want to do is ship in this liquid gold.
I assume you read the entire post?Quote:
Originally Posted by santon
TOYOTA 3309 fluid is the same, at 1/3 the price of Volvo's.
Go into any Toyota dealership and you can buy it there
Yes I DID READ the entire post. that was my last option, I realize they are the same however was going to try to stick to the mobil, doesnt look like I will be able to, no one I called can be bothered to order it.
next question, where the f99k is this dipstick to refill? I cant see it for the life of my (2003 XC70). I appreciate the non sarcastic reply JRL, I really do.
I looked arond with an LED light on the drivers side of the car south of the air filter, cant seem to find it. Anyone got a pic of this elusive dipstick?
Santon........head to your nearest Toyota dealership and purchase 16 litres of T-IV trans fluid.........it is ALL THE SAME!!! Don't mean to shout, but this has been going on for quite some time. It doesn't have to be Mobil or Volvo.....it's ALL 3309 and it ALL comes out of the same cauldron !!! The only difference is that in Canada, it's brewed by Esso. I got complete confirmation on this back in July due to some help from my Toyota Tech trainer in Scarborough at Toyota Canada. I did my flush back then, and the car works mint and shifts quite orgasmically. Save your dollars and stay away from Volvo.
Dave.
aviator I was planning on it.
as for this dipstick, looked around agian. all i could find is this steel nipple sticking up with some sort of yellow cap. thats the only place i can see that oil maybe can be put into the tranny. its not a tradition dipstick per say.
its just like a 1/2 inch thick tube with some type of yellow weird cap on it. not a stick you can pull out and check. unless there is some type of stick under this flat yellow cap.
actually just found a thread with a pic of it. i believe its the same thing i found, however i think the top part that you pull must be broken on mine as its just a flat yellow cap! great! this should be fun!
http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showth...=find+dipstick
went and took another look the thing I was looking at was the wrong one, found the dipstick, pulled it out. oil didnt look that bad. however car has 260,000km on it. not sure when it was last done if ever but there is no way its original, it actually looks pretty good.
I will end up doing it next week. I have a small issue that when i am light on the gas between 1st and 2nd (like around parking lots or when you are barely on the gas its like it doesnt know what gear its in the odd time between 1st and 2nd and just revs up then grabs second. it might happen like once every two weeks. wonder if that can be corrected with a tranny software update or its the beginning of some sort of mechanical failure. i guess I will change the oil next week and see if that helps.
found a toll free mobil #, confirmed that the 3309 isnt available in canada other than for volvo.
called a toyota dealership, $7.36/liter.
SantonQuote:
Originally Posted by santon
I just put the following on another thread ... so you should feel comfortable with the T-IV[thumbup]
As requested and promised, here is the feedback (on T-IV).
We have just returned from our summer holiday at the coast - remember, I am in the southern hemisphere - and have completed just more than 3000 miles since the transmission flush with T-IV fluid. About half these miles were travelled at highway speeds up to 80 mph with frequent overtaking and high-speed down/up-shifts and the rest in town, on mountain passes and similar shift-intensive driving.
The transmission did not miss a single shift, behaved "as new" and shifting is back to being extremely smooth, in all gear changes, up or down, when the transmission fluid is hot. When cold, there are occasions when the 1-2 and very infrequently the 2-3 shift can be felt, but in all instances it is not harsh or anything like a surge or "jerking" -- it is almost as if there is a very very slight delay [hundredth of a second - so slight that my wife does not pick it up at all] in the shifting, which disappears as soon as the fluid reaches normal operating temperature.
I will feed back after another 3000 miles or so, but at this stage it appears that the T-IV suits the transmission perfectly ... as expected. At the price, T-IV seems to be a good solution for the transmission flush.
The dip stick is just to the left of that other yellow thingy. It's really hard to find, try moving the large 1 1/2 inch air hose out of the way as it is under that. It has "ATF" written on it. Once you find it, you"ll kick yourself as it is right there.
O.K. Did this yesterday... what a mess!!!
Had to do this as my car had been parked in a valet lot in NYC and driven frequently in NYC. The oil was BLACK and smelled burned and my shifting sounded like the tranni was about to fall of and be left behind me in the middle of broadway.
The first mistake I made was in regards to the drain tube. I half followed the IpD instructions and half followed the Gibbons and ended up with about a quart of black stuff on the floor. That blew the whole measure as you go method. I estimated how much I had lost and went on.
I didn't stop draining on time, allowing foam to come out and this not only made for a very difficult read of how much fluid had come out, but I suspect caused air bubbles in the system which made filling VERY tedious and resulted in quite a bit of of new ATF on the floor next to the old.
In the end I got some very nice color and the difference was immediatly amazing. Went for a 30min ride and adjusted the level (this took several attemts) I got the level to be at the lower "hot" mark after a good ride. Was very pleased with myself.
Later in the day I embarked on a long highway ride, in bad weather. On the first big hill, a loud screech came from below the shifter... pulled over, checked the levels and they were off the scale. Had to go on (familly in the back seat and a snow storm on the windsheild) this happened again at the next hill, then stopped. Rest of the ride went fine.
While I was under the car, I noticed a small oil leak commong from the unit which is attached to the tranni, I suspect it is somehow related to the 4wheel aspect of the car? Could either the 4wheel leak, or the air bubbles be to blame for the screech? What happens if you over fill? What do I do, any suggestions?!?
By the way, next time I suspect it will take less than an hour as I will know bwtter where to stick my hose and will be carefull to measure much more accuratly. The change in the performance was amazing.
As long as I haven't destroyed my Tranni, I will feel really great about this job.
I been reading on this thread of 2 days now. I plan on doing an ATF flush on a 2004 XC70 I just purchased.
I like GIBBON's method, and I plan to follow it, but I have a question:
Why not use a pump to suck out all the fluid, and then use the same pump to replace it with clean ATF?
Follow me here:
Disconnect the ATF cooler return line as in gibbons method except that now you attach a drill pump (you can buy one from Home Depot for like 10$) to the tubing described and suck out all the fluid you can. Then Start the engine, and run it for say 20 sec just enough to give the pump in the transmission enough time to empty itself and other pipes or cavities there may be. Now pump out the rest of the fluid as before.
Once you are satisfied you pumped out as much of the fluid as possible (should be close to the capacity, if it is less, then you know there is more dirty ATF trapped in there somewhere) you can start refilling with clean ATF!
Instead of slowly and burping and overflowing and stuff, just reverse the pump and pump clean ATF into the tranny from the bottom up, allowing the air to escape through the dipstick hole. Clean and easy.
Now I imagine you would have to stop say ¾ of the way through this to start the engine and allow the pump in the tranny to re-fill itself and other cavities and passageways in the tranny. Stop the engine and finish pumping the new fluid in until you have replaced all the oil you have removed.
Reconnect the hose back the way it was, wash the pump and tubing with gasoline or something like that and you are done. No mess, no oil spills and no wasted ATF.
Sounds good right?? Sure it does, but DOES IT WORK? What do you all think?
Omega5......this is a death sentence for your transmission. You want to use the oil pump in the transmission and pump out 2 litres at a time and refill the same. That's the only way you can pump out what's in the torque converter. The pump in the transmission is an oil pump.......not an air pump. If you run the pump dry of oil then you will destroy the pump in short order, and then your transmission will not work at all. Stick to the tried and true method that we all use (and what Volvo recommends), do it right, and you'll still have a transmission. The other thing is, by pumping out via the top cooler port you are also flushing out the cooler too.....I have seen this to be a holding area for transmission crud which will get put back into the transmission if you don't clean it out. Use the method !!!!! It's clean, simple, and you'll feel better about yourself after !!
Dave.
Curious,
How many of you who performed a trans fluid flush experienced:
Better performance?
No change in performance?
Need new transmission?
I had it performed for me by the dealer and experienced number one, then number three about 20k miles later.