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Great how-to, but if, like me, you searched this and began to follow it without noticing it was for 2001+ model years...well...lets just say it won't work quite right.
See, on a '99, that top hose on the cooler is where the fluid comes OUT...ask he how I know. :(
Otherwise, fantastic. Thanks!
Have the car in for service at Volvo here in Sandefjord today, they just called me and strongly adviced to change oil in the automatic transmission. They told me the oil smelled bad??. 430$ !! I have 116.000 km on the car now.
Have just used the Gibbons method - using the Toyota IV fluid as it's cheaper here in the UK. (About £80 / $130 for 10 litres!)
I carefully measured what was removed and put the same back in - but didn't allow for the odd spill etc so should have been slightly under on the dipstick.
However the end result was above the dipstick's 'hot' line even when cold. However the car seemingly ran fine with smoother shifts - I ran it for a few miles in this state just to check things had settled etc.
I then drained about a litre out - but even then it's still well above the 'cold' line when cold.
However the car is now giving jerky changes, on cornering in particular.
Any thoughts?
Fluid flowing back into the main box from the cooler giving an artificially high reading?
Neil
Please ignore my last - I've just read in another thread that I need to do the level check with the engine running.
Neil
How's the Toyota IV atf working out? I've been thinking of doing the same as a cheaper alternative. Thanks for any info!Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil R
16victor,
A quick question for you. I have a 98 GLT and tried to purge the system. Took off the top hose to the cooler and pumped fluid out the hose instead of the radiator! Ahhhhhh. I am just trying to confirm now which line is which. From your post I am getting the idea that it is the drivers side bottom hose that is the return line, and the drivers side top line that is the supply. Hope your clean up wasn't to difficult.
Thanks,
Eric
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beau
Sorry so long to reply - have been away for nearly a month.
Once I got the fluid level sorted things have worked out fine with the Toyota fluid.
I can't decide whether the overall gearbox smoothness has improved or not - possibly just slightly - but the peace of mind affect has made it all worth it.
I actually did the final top up with a Volvo 1L bottle, and it certainly looked, poured and smelled identical to the Toyota stuff.
Neil
http://www.ipdusa.com/ProductsCat.as...764&RootID=629
Not that I couldn't do what Gibbons suggested, but this wouldn't require me climbing underneath, plugging with teflon tape, etc...
I ordered the flush kit from IPD. It basically is a clear hose and some extra clips and o-rings. I followed the same procedure started by Gibbions and it worked perfectly. The IPD kit calls for taking off the lower trans hose (my car is 2003 V70 T5) and putting their clear hose over the lower trans cooler hose. The lower hose is a real pain to get to, so I just took off the upper trans hose--much easier--depress green clip, push in, pull out!!!
Then I pushed the supplied IPD clear hose into the upper trans radiator fitting leaving removed upper hose free. It fits real snug and didn't leak once.
Run hose into container, I used a gallon milk jug to measure how much came out, then emptied milk jug into 5 gal bucket.
When I first started the flushing (30 sec or so at idle to get 1/2 gal or 2 qts out) I thought I'd gotten the oil cooler hose the fluid was so DARK. (53,000 miles on car) After 6 cycles of starting car, step on brake, switch through P,R,N, D and back I'd flushed 12 qts of fluid. The last flush cycle was way more reddish in tint and was much clearer. I only had 12 qts and probably needed 18 qts to get it really clean.
Figure what I did was better than what was in there. I agree with removing the air intake scoop to the air box. It makes it much easier to get to the hidden trans dip stick/fill tube.
Next time I'll get a smaller funnel to make sure fluid is going into dip stick tube...had some spillage but not bad. After last flush, I drove the car to warm fluid and check level. I guess I took out more than I put in because it was reading really low even after driving it for a while. Yes, I checked while engine running and level. It seems to drive and shift fine for now. I filled 5 gal bucket to about 3 or 3.5 gal mark and after 12 qts (3 gallons) should be close enough untill the other (2) cases of Mobil JWS 3309 I ordered get here in a few days to top up.
Long story short, it is easy to flush you're own trans. I'd get some 3/4 clear hose from an auto parts store or Home Depot and save paying the $19 to IPD. Took me 30 minutes start to finish. YOU CAN DO IT!!!!
My recent transmission flush experience was very similar. A case of Mobil 3309 from Avlube.com was not enough, so I didn't get the fluid crystal clear. An interesting suggestion is to do the first 6 quarts with another ATF such as Dexron III, and then finish the flush with 12 quarts of 3309. This saves some money, and when you are done, all of the old ATF, dirt and Dexron III are gone. Maybe I will try this next time.:rolleyes:
Getting the fluid level correct is tricky. After a brief run around the block, the level was at the lower mark on the stick. I assumed that this would allow for further expansion with more spirited driving, but I found the ATF over the upper mark:eek: after a drive on the turnpike. I ended up removing some fluid with my MityVac.
Overall, I agree that this is a great procedure for the do-it-yourselfer.[thumbup]
I highly recommend against using anything other than a fluid meeting the JWS 3309 specification in a transmission calling for that fluid. I believe one would be much better off having some old 3309 left behind rather than some new Dexron in this equipment. Dexron can kill these transmissions.
Bill
I've been reading these posts regarding do it yourself ATF flushes for
the 5 speed auto trans. I also ordered the tubing kit from IPD. Rather
than fill the trans through the dip stick, why not just rig another
plastic tube to the return line and then let the transmission "suck"
the 3309 from a clear container with the new ATF ??? If the return supply line can be primed, then hopefully no air bubbles are introduced
into the tranny.
Based on your experience, what do you think ?
Thanks
The fluid is pushed through the return line by positive pressure, not pulled through with negative suction. I was just lazy, I had a transmission filling funnel already, It's about 18" long and maybe 3" diameter at the top to fit nicely through the mechanicals.
I used the Mobil 3309 exclusively for my flush and fill, but I have seen synthetics like Redline and Mobil marketed for these transmissions even though I don't see JWS 3309 on the bottle. Has anyone used these products successfully?
I'm planning on changing ATF myself too. However, something doesn't really make sense to me. If you start by climbing under the car and draining the pan, why do all the circus with the tubing later - just keep draining it from the pan. Let me explain the idea. Somebody mentioned here that if you get perfectly clear ATF running through the tube and then drive the car for a while it gets cloudy again (pockets of dirty ATF trapped inside of the tranny). So why not drain the pan, refill drained amount drive it, drain the pan again ...refill...drive - you get the idea. Each time just drain the pan and then let it mix well inside while you drive.
Advantages:
1. No need to mess with the tubes, try to run the engine and risk running engine with little fluid in the tranny.
2. Fewer refills. Let's say, you've got 7.5 quart of ATF in the tranny and you are planning to run through the whole case of ATF (12 quarts). With this method you will have only 4 refills
3. Better homogeneity - each time you mix up ATF well, before the next refill, so there are no pockets of the original (dirty) fluid.
4. Better results - that's just pure math:
Even assuming perfect mixing up of the fluid with your method you would get the following concentration of the original dirty fluid in the final mix-up:
1st refill (3.1 litter) - 58%
2nd refill (2 litter) - 43%
3rd refill (2 litter) - 32%
4th refill (2 litter) - 23%
5th refill (2 litter) - 17%
6th refill (0.9 litter) - 15%
In the drain the pan every time method you would get:
1st refill (3 litter) - 60%
2nd refill (3 litter) - 36%
3rd refill (3 litter) - 22%
4th refill (3 litter) - 13%
Not by much, but slightly better.
The point of the Gibbons/Volvo method is to get used ATF out with a minimum of mixing of the old with new which it accomplishes by the pumping out of generally unmixed old stuff. Under this method the engine is on only long enough to pump out each portion and no longer. The method you propose maximizes mixing.
Bill
Bill, try actually reading what I wrote! (Those little percentages in the end of the message might come handy in understanding my point)Quote:
Originally Posted by BillAileo
ArtSmart,
FWIW: I did read what you actually wrote and a premise is the mixing of the fluid and the numbers are driven by that premise, which, in my opinion, is a false premise in a properly done Gibbons/Volvo flush in which minimal mixing occurs. If one assumed no mixing (which certainly would not be the case) the percentage of old ATF after just the second refill would be about 32% and it would continue dramatic drops at each refill. Of course there is some mixing so these numbers would be off by quite a bit. I prefer the Gibbons/Volvo method because it is basically the functional equivalent to the use of the automatic equipment used to flush these systems in a well equipped Volvo facility. However, I see no harm in your approach. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
Regards,
Bill
Where did you get that from? As soon as you refil the ATF after that first 3.1 L that you drained from the pan, the fluid is mixed with the old fluid. Everything you pump out with Gibbons method from that point is mixed stuff. (may be with the exception of the fluid in the radiator, which you can drain first as well with my method). From that point, the better it is mixed the better your results will be(no pockets of old stuff) Try to think about it, why do you think people suggest shifting transmission while draining it with Gibbons method?Quote:
Originally Posted by BillAileo
The method described by Gibbons is the method described in VADIS for doing a flush. In normal operation the ATF in the system is drawn from the pan into and through the transmission and then into the transmission portion of the radiator for cooling and then out the return line which is located at the upper portion of the raditor for return to the pan. By first replacing the fluid in the pan and then disconnecting the return line from the radiator to the pan when the car is started the dirty fluid in the cooler and the transmission is basically sent on its way through the vinyl tubing attached to the return line receptacle into whatever container is being used to collect the waste ATF while at the same time new ATF is drawn from the pan into the transmission and on to the cooler. VADIS does not call for moving the gear selector during the flushing process, it's instruction is to leave the transmission in Park. The instruction to move it between gears follows the filling process and is to be done before the final checking of the ATF fluid level.
Bill
I shift through the gears because it opens the solenoid valves allowing new fluid to be pumped through the cavities of the valve body, purging them of nastiness too. If you do it after everything is buttoned up, the nastiness gets recirculated with the new.
That makes sense to me. I'll shift through the gears on my second flush which I need to get to fairly soon.
Bill
In my opinion Gibbons your comments and detailed research have earned you the right to blabber. Blaber away, we all enjoy it and occasionally (like tonite) learn something useful! Even its from 2005!Quote:
Originally Posted by gibbons
MDD
Does ATF go from the pan though the tranny and then to the radiator or from the pan to the radiator and then through the tranny?Quote:
Originally Posted by BillAileo
BTW does anybody have an exploded view of this transmission or, maybe, some diagramms?
Never seen inside an AW, but all auto transmissions have multiple flow paths, with a main pump that pressurizes fluid, and numerous valves routing it where needed depending on the unit's current state. Fluid travels through the radiator at the same time it flows through servos (assuming they are hydraulic), valves, governer, torque converter, etc.
Just had my 02 scheduled for a tranny fluid change (46,000 miles), the service people say it'll be $75.00 per jug for the synthetic Volvo ATF fluid (4), and about 1.0 hours for the work $138.00).Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueBlue
Not too bad, the Service Mgr told me that they change at about 90K but he said that for him personally, he would change NLT 50k.
As the gent who started the post indicated, the change is done through the cooling line.
Best Regards
XC-70, Silver, Graphite
S430, Silver, Charcoal
530i, Orient Blue, Dove Gray
Taurus, Jest Keeps on Tickin!
Because I could never find any statement on the Mobil website claiming that their Mobil 3309 was a synthetic I have assumed it was not. However, after I noticed that IPD's online listing of Mobil 3309 describes it as a synthetic I asked IPD about the basis for that assertion and they promptly responded with a message stating:
"Yes, the Mobil 3309 ATF is a full Synthetic oil. Mobil is the OEM supplier for Volvo."
I don't understand why Mobil doesn't include this assertion on their web information....
Bill
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillAileo
What does the Mobil fluid cost per jug?
It varies a lot depending upon where you purchase it. IPD sells it for $85 a case (12 quarts), it isn't the lowest price but IPD is very reliable. There is an online outfit (http://store.avlube.com/mobilatf3309.html) selling it for $50 a case but I have never dealt with them. You might look for a Mobil lubricants regional distributor in your neck of the woods to minimize shipping expense.
Bill
Cheers! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by BillAileo
RB
I used avlube.com for my ATF change a few months ago, and was very satisfied with their service. The price can't be beat - less than some Dexron III.[happy] Mobil 3309 is not available in any of the parts stores in my area, so this was a no-brainer. Remember that you will likely need to use more than a case to achieve really clean ATF, so you may want to order more than a case and split the remainder with a fellow P2 Volvo owner.
Does anyone know if the "Mobil 1 Synthetic" is JWS 3309 compliant? :confused: This is widely available in my area, but I avoided because I was not sure that it would be acceptable for the A-W tranny.
Mobil does not claim that Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF meets the JWS 3309 specification. http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...thetic_ATF.asp.
A fluid meeting JWS 3309 has special friction modifiers that are essential to the life of our AW transmissions. Do not use anything in them that does not meet JWS 3309.
Bill
I think that this might be more speculation than fact, however any large ATF supplier with a JWS 3309 product has probably sent a salesperson to Detroit and or Gothenburg... It is common for OEM's to multi-source or sole source, for that matter. But my money is on Castrol:Quote:
Originally Posted by BillAileo
http://http://www.volvocars.com/sale...lAdvantage.htm; they've got Volvo's commitment and the product: Transmax J. Which is not sold in the western hemisphere (hmm, why not...?); and apparently not at retail elsewhere.
I concur with MrTippy, as nowhere on the bottles of Mobil 3309 in my garage or on their website do they claim that this is a full synthetic. Do you think that they would not market it as a full synthetic if it were? And if Volvo's product is claimed to be synthetic, then it cannot be Mobil 3309, at least not the consumer product that is available.
I noticed something in the August issue of ipd's Minimailer. The "Mobil 3309" that they have pictured is Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF, not the mineral based stuff in the blue bottle that I used for my recent ATF change. This may be the source of some of the confusion. I don't think that these two products are equivalent.
Unless you can provide written information from Mobil, Volvo, Aisin-Warner, etc., I think that it is highly unlikely that Mobil 3309 is synthetic or OEM. That said, I used this a few months ago with great results.[thumbup]
I just flushed the tranny yesterday: 2002 V70XC with 76,000 miles, first flush (mea culpa).
I made sure the engine and tranny were hot, up onto the ramps, and drained the pan through the drain plug. 3.5 quarts (3.3 liters) of hot brown fluid. Smelled OK, but horrible color. Very small amount of shavings on the drain plug, no noticeable "pieces".
3.5 quarts of Mobil 3309 into the filler tube. About 2 miles around the neighborhood, shifting through all five gears, reverse a couple of times, a few minutes idling in neutral, all to ensure a good mix of old and new fluid.
Repeat drain, fill, and mix: 3.25 quarts (3.1 liters) each of the second and third rounds.
I'm very happy with the results and time / effort / cost required. I'll use the Gibbons method in 25k miles to see if I can force more old out with less mixing.
Fluid ordered from avlube.com. Get a tranny funnel with the flexible tip - I had a long straight one and got a little drippage down the filler tube.
Overall, much easier than dropping a pan, changing a filter, and wearing half the fluid (ala GMC Sierra). I only wish I had done the first change eariler.
Thanks for the tips and encouragement.
Tom
First of all, I think it is strange how battles rage at different volvo forums about sytethicity of this ATF. I was just reading posts on another forum about this issue and people there got as far as calling each other names. It does seem probable that Castrol TRANSMAX J is an OEM supplier for VOLVO. However, they don't claim that it is a fully synthetic fluid either. Here is a discription of it from CASTROL website:Quote:
Originally Posted by volvoshad
Quote:
A premium part synthetic automatic transmission fluid, developed specifically for use in Japanese vehicles.Formulated with synthetic base stocks and innovative additive technology, Castrol Transmax J has outstanding cold flow properties for responsive gear change and high component protection at start up.
Toma Nova,
Thanks for the update on the alternate method. This topic hits close to home when I took the 02 to the dealership this last time, the service manager suggested I get a tranny flush. I said sure. Yet when I went in the same day to pick it up, they hadn't flushed it since the flush machine was not working. I asked how that worked, offering a service knowing that it couldn't be provided. BTW, my local dealer is weak on service. They need to take a walk down the street to the Lexus dealership and spend the day learning about service.
Anyhow, I'm a handy guy and this seems to be a simple enough task. Thanks everyone who has lended their expertise and thoughts to this thread.
I know it is kind of a stupid question but where is the transmission drain plug? Is it under the plastic cover (skid plate)? Do I need to take it off to access it?
Remove the splash guard. The bolt looks like those in this thread:
http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/cha...pic.php?t=8767
MadeInJapan's car is an S 70, but the drain plug on my '01 XC looks the same. Good Luck![thumbup]
Thanks! One more dumb question. Does anybody have a link for a aluminium seal ring? Is it the same that is sold at IPD for oil drain plug?