View Full Version : Ahh, the angle gear....
tranmkp
11-29-2006, 01:15 PM
Anyone intimate with the AG? Car does not make a sound now. Did for a while. Quiet now. Fluid level in AG was very low. Burnt smell. What that tells me is that
1. bad seal would cause fluid to get low, not necessarily failures with VC/shaft/tire issues.
2. Low fluid would mean that temp in AG would be high.
But this this mean that the gear needs to be replaced? As I understand it is a ring and pinion setup. I cant think of a ring and pinion setup to fail unless it is run hot untill the point of failure. Seems the AG case can be refilled and all should be well no? I can tap it out and put in a tem guage and watch happens.
tranmkp
11-29-2006, 09:22 PM
They can be resealed
yes they can - however, is the gear bad now after running hot? Has it lost its temper? will it fail? How do you determine?
coolwhipdefuser
11-30-2006, 09:09 AM
I kind of second that last question, how do you determine if the AG has gone bad or not? I do not often drive in conditions where my AWD is needed, so I cannot easily determine whether or not it works.
tranmkp
11-30-2006, 12:54 PM
I kind of second that last question, how do you determine if the AG has gone bad or not? I do not often drive in conditions where my AWD is needed, so I cannot easily determine whether or not it works.
Just got off the phone with a close friend who is a mechanic I trust - knows his stuff. More a Benz and BMW guy but knows AWD. He told ne that the VC has MORE than enough play to take up small differences in tire size. That the tire size and angle gear failure is a lot of hooey. That the real cause of AG failure is lack of lubrication. There are three seal on the AG, any one can weep. Just checked mine - low -burn smell. NO, you can loos the temper on gears. Bearings will fail first. Put a temp sensor in it, reseal and refill. Dont want to put a sensor in? Then always check the level of lube.
He told me that we are needlessly stressing ourselves out...
coolwhipdefuser
11-30-2006, 01:49 PM
He told me that we are needlessly stressing ourselves out...
Thats good to know.
Can't answer that but if you reseal and (of course) put new fluid in and it's quiet, it has a good chance of staying that was.
I will be at the dealer tomorrow and will ask my mechanic that same question so look for an answer tomorrow night
Greybeard
12-01-2006, 09:52 AM
So how do you reseal the angle gear. Just tighten the bolts? I have a 2000 XC-SE and just had the angle gear replaced last month, and now it's dripping fluid again. I'm having new tires put on the car today. Hopefully that helps. I'm ready to take matters into my own hands, but without a service manual, I'm shooting in the dark.
tranmkp
12-01-2006, 11:22 AM
So how do you reseal the angle gear. Just tighten the bolts? I have a 2000 XC-SE and just had the angle gear replaced last month, and now it's dripping fluid again. I'm having new tires put on the car today. Hopefully that helps. I'm ready to take matters into my own hands, but without a service manual, I'm shooting in the dark.
If you replaced the AG and its leaking a month later then you have a warranty issue with Volvo. Something is not right if the seals are leaking that quickly. That part has a one year warranty.
Greybeard
12-01-2006, 03:49 PM
tranmkp:
In your post above, you said that there are three seals on the AG. Can you direct me to a site that would have a picture of the AG housing and where the seals are. I just hate that I can't get a service manual for this car. I'm used to being able to look at a manual and at least figuring out what's wrong, even if I can't fix it.
And you're right, I have a one year warranty. I'm going to take the car to the dealer, which is 2 hours away, and get them to check the AG for me.
Thanks for any help you can give re: the diagram of the AG.
tranmkp
12-01-2006, 07:40 PM
tranmkp:
In your post above, you said that there are three seals on the AG. Can you direct me to a site that would have a picture of the AG housing and where the seals are. I just hate that I can't get a service manual for this car. I'm used to being able to look at a manual and at least figuring out what's wrong, even if I can't fix it.
And you're right, I have a one year warranty. I'm going to take the car to the dealer, which is 2 hours away, and get them to check the AG for me.
Thanks for any help you can give re: the diagram of the AG.
Call the parts dept of the dealer (any dealer, I call Boston Volvo sometimies even though I live in Texas.)
They can fax you a diagram from the Volvo system so you can see the seals...
Greybeard
12-02-2006, 06:49 AM
Thanks tranmkp. I'll give that a try. Why in the heck doesn't Volvo publish a decent service manual on a car that is 7 years old. (mine's a 2000)? Even Harley Davidson, which is the other great stealership on planet Earth publishes detailed service manuals on all of their bikes. You can actually work on your own bike, or at least know what you're asking for when you take it in for repairs.
The only conclusion I can come up with is that Volvo must think that owners like to spend all of their money putting their cars in the dealership and putting more money in the till to help Volvo not go under financially. I've got news for Volvo. If they treat their customers like this, they will go under, because people will switch to a brand that treats their customers like they have a brain in their head.
I contacted the Customer Care (hah!) site for help in finding the differences in tread depth between the front and rear tires, before I have to worry about my angle gear going out again, and costing me another $3100. They said they would send me the Volvo supplement to the Owners Manual (which I already have) that basically says to rotate your tires regularly. Then they ignored my other emails. And I was polite. No bad words!
So far, I'm not impressed with Volvo N.A. Sorry for the rant. On the Harley forums we get wound up with our rants. It helps so we don't throw wrenches or beat on our bikes when they don't work.
I have to say that the people on this Forum are great, and no one should own a Volvo XC without participating in this Forum. I've learned a lot from you guys. Thanks!
tranmkp
12-04-2006, 09:31 AM
http://www.artshot.net/ag_1.pdf
http://www.artshot.net/ag_2.pdf
tranmkp
12-04-2006, 12:48 PM
Angle gear oil replacement
http://home.ripway.com/2005-4/294125/Volvo/V70XCBevelGear.pdf
mrscullini
12-04-2006, 12:58 PM
Angle gear oil replacement
http://home.ripway.com/2005-4/294125/Volvo/V70XCBevelGear.pdf
nice procedure.
is it required to use "volvo" oil? can multi-weight gear oil be used?
Greybeard
12-04-2006, 02:44 PM
Hey tranmkp, thanks for the diagrams of the angle gear and driveshaft. I have a MityVac to bleed the brakes on my Harley, so I'm set to do the fluid change on the angle gear.
Wednesday I go to our Volvo dealer to see what they say about the leak from the new angle gear. I think after that, I'm doing the conversion to FWD. I don't want to worry about the gear going out again. Too much $$$.
Thanks again. You made my millenium!
tranmkp
12-04-2006, 03:24 PM
The AG holds less than a quart. Thats not very much. I can only imagine the temps in the summer driving on a long trip.
Looks like it is some sort of transmission fluid. I would think you could run a synthetic Redline or Royal Purple...
volvo specs here.
http://www.alldata.com/tsb/Volvo/1129186800000_1130918400000_TNN40-04/401.html
tranmkp
12-04-2006, 03:38 PM
nice procedure.
is it required to use "volvo" oil? can multi-weight gear oil be used?
Looks likeyou can run another gear oil. GL-5 specs (Gear Lube).
I just talked to the guys at Royal Purple and you can run their systhetic gear lube. Will exceed Volvo specs. SHould run cooler too. Need to be sure the seals are in good shape.
tranmkp
12-05-2006, 10:27 AM
I have finally come to the conclusion that the AWD systems in these cars are not for continuous application, they are more for spot low speed application. Talking to another service manager today, the BG will likely fail do to heat in continuous high speed driving. Independent of what the tire size is. For example, you wanted to drive to baja in soft sand as fast as you could safely go. Chances are the BG would fail because is would be working outside its design.
That pretty much settles that then. The only way out of this BV failure is to find a way to increase BG lube cooling and capacity. After talking to a machine shop and a fabricator, the cost are going to come in about what a new BG will cost...(pull gear, drill & tap. sensor. stainless steel line, lube pump, fab mount and lube sump, wiring & VDO temp gauge.
tranmkp
12-05-2006, 02:30 PM
After talking to a machine shop and a fabricator, the cost are going to come in about what a new BG will cost...(pull gear, drill & tap. sensor. stainless steel line, lube pump, fab mount and lube sump, wiring & VDO temp gauge.[/QUOTE]
update: System will need to run uphill, cooler mounted in front at higest point, downstream on firewall is reservoir and pump then down to BG - check valve needs to be installed downstream of reservior to ensure BG is not over filled.
Stock vent at top of BG needs to be removed an replaced with a nipple and a tube ran to a higher point with a vented loop and KN filter, should reduce all internal BG case pressure. - similar to setup on Baja1000 rigs.
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