Good bye XC70 hello Lexus

[rojah the boggah]

Having been a loyal Volvo fan since 1999, and owned 2 V70's and 2 XC 70's, I feel I know more than most onr the Volvo experience.

I have just finished my last 12 months and 24,000 miles on my oct 2005 XC70 D5 SE (185hp) 6 speed manual.

I have owned a 2002 XC70 pre haldex, for 58,000 miles, then a 2005 V70 D5 for 10,000 miles.

IMHO, they are fine for 12,000 miles, then start to go loose an "flaccid" especially on handling and suspension.

Latest XC70 D5, having just finished 24K miles, is a total disgrace to the marque, and thank god it's a contract hire vehicle and not mine.

OK they are supremely comfortable and economical (40 mpg), but they are noy built to last. My manual D5 6 speed has clutch judder when cold (christ we have just come through the hottest summer since record began), and the whole plot feels like someone has loosened every suspension bolt.

interestingly, I waxed lyrical about my new Volvos on this forum when I received them versus my 2002 heap, but I take back everything.

For serious hard use, fast driving over normal UK roads, they just are substandard.

Am I bothered? No, as they are on short term contract hire, they just get sent back to Volvo UK. But for you "owners" out there, beware....

So I was so concerned as to the long term fragility of my XC70, and after an appaling £300 first service cost (18,00 miles), I vowed to look elsewhere.

2 days ago, I am the proud owner of a Lexus RX400h.

All I can say is what have I been missing?

Crappy Volvo service, a forum full of apologetic enthusiasts, at last I have seen the light, a dealer network who seems totry to understand the customer.

So my advice is as such

NEVER NEVER touch a pre Haldex 2002 model.

All Auto transmissions pre 6 speed are suspect. pre 2003 should be avoided at all costs - just read this forum

Front suspension wears alarmingly and is loose as a lap dancer in Preston
after 20K of spirited driving.

Dealers are s**t, go to independants.

This is a shame, as I have loved the Volvo scene, safety, security, reliabilty. Trouble is that this is no longer a USP, everyone has this a standard.

Bye Bye, was good being involved, but no regrets now

PS the Lexus is superb, XC90's are agricultural in comparison

Roj

[RedXC]

Enjoy the Lexus brand. It's a shame Volvo lost another customer.

[John@CdnRockies]

"... interestingly, I waxed lyrical about my new Volvos on this forum"

And now you appear to be equally lyrical about the Lexus. Hope you don't get disappointed again.

I just bought an '06 Toyota Avalon but must admit that the Volvo is a heck of a lot more practical. First long trip since acquisiton of the Avalon (2,500 km road trip) and we opted for the Volvo on the basis of comfort and functionality.

Unfortunately, you won't find a forum nearly as helpful as this one when it comes time to exchanging thoughts. Good luck in any case.

John

[philosophicaldreamer]

Let me say one paragraph: Go on Lexus boards and you will find out that they have as many problems with their marquee as we do with our. Besides, bear in mind that your Lexus, at least in the States, costs about $10000 more than Volvo. I do agree with you, however, that Volvo dealerships generally leave much to be desired; and if Volvo does not wake up to this fact, they will be left behind.

Good luck with your Lexus.
Ta-ta, j.

[ifnt420]

2 days ago, I am the proud owner of a Lexus RX400h. Congrat on your new overpriced Toyota.... opps I mean Lexus. http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

[dr.tb.xc]

IMHO, they are fine for 12,000 miles, then start to go loose an "flaccid" especially on handling and suspension.Interesting choice of words. Have you tried Viagra? Cialis? My first XC had just short of 100K miles when I gave up on her. The transmission was a piece of crap, but her front end and suspension were still firm ... er, turgid.

Crappy Volvo service, a forum full of apologetic enthusiasts, at last I have seen the light, a dealer network who seems totry to understand the customer.Whose appologetic? "Defensive" enthusiasts, maybe, but surely not appologetic. [sly] As for your infatuation with your new dealer, if you can predict how they're going to treat you from two days experience [Has it already required service?], I salute you. It took me at least six months to figure out that my Volvo dealership was $h!t. Also, if your Lexus dealer knows what "totry" means, you've struck gold.

Bye Bye, was good being involved, but no regrets now
So long. Give our regards to your new pals on the Toyota forum.

-Todd

[Boarder]

Japanese and European brands = apples and oranges IMO.

My buddy just bought his wife a Lexus GS350 and had such a horrible experience with the dealer that he says it is the last Lexus he will ever purchase. Once he actually receive the car, he found the CD player would not work and it took them a week of pulling apart the dash to figure it out.

Every manufacture has it's horror stories and that includes punch press Toyota platforms.

Once your honeymoon is over, I hope you find your new car to be what you expect.

Best of luck.

[mrb]

Good luck and happy driving with your new car. I have heard horror stories about all makes of cars and dealerships---I, hovever, have my 3rd Volvo from Putnam Volvo in Burlilngame, Ca and cannot express anything but the highest in sales and service. Like all fields there are good and bad and usually we only tell of the bad. I, too, hope that you have positive experience with you new car.

[psaboic]

Enjoy the new appliance!

I say that as that is what the Toyota and Lexus brands are to me. Sure they are very reliable, but then again so is my refrigerator, washer and dryer. All will last 10 years (or more) but neither of them invoke any passion or excitement.

To each his own

[AWD*V70XC]

2 days ago, I am the proud owner of a Lexus RX400h.

Roj

RX400H YBRID, First of all it is a Hybrid and secondly it's a rebadged Toyota.

Hybrid's will in time show that they are just a gap filler, I know the second hand market buyers are going to need some convincing to buy this type of car as it will be proven that the batteries are a non starter for the secondhand buyers - price - problems - premature.

As for paying over the top on a Toyota, oh it's another contract car, so let's not even go there -

It's been good having you for so long, hope you enjoy the new ride and pop back when you feel like it, even if it is just for reassurance...

[JsR]

Front suspension wears alarmingly and is loose as a lap dancer in Preston after 20K of spirited driving.

Dealers are s**t, go to independants.

Roj

Hope you stay happy with the new car - I considered one before I bought the XC90 - walked up to it, pulled the door handle and it came off in my hand... I walked away.

As for dealers, I must be lucky - my dealer has been really helpful, the '90 did have a string of silly problems but they were all sorted with no fuss and it then became a very reliable car.

And can you detail your experiences with Preston lap-dancers... :D

regards

John R

p.s., had the same Toyota for 18 years before switching to Volvo, and my son's still driving it now - great mechanicals but bodywork rusting (bit like me), I reckon it'll go on for another 5 years at least (hopefully I will as well). And just hope I don't get to regret the change :(

[Jack]

I find this thread interesting because my wife decided to sell her Toyota Highlander after less than two years of ownership so we could buy another Volvo! I shop for cars more than she would like and I wouldn't sell one after 22 months of ownership so for her to do so is very unusual.

I won't criticize choices of vehicles or politics -- it's a personal decision and the argument doesn't usually change anyones opinion in the end. For that matter there's a BUNCH of RX's in our small (mostly conservative :rolleyes: ) neighborhood. But we found the Highlander, which is 90% of the Lexus RX at 60% of the price, to be best described as "reliable transportation". It would get you from here to there, with a high seating position preferred by shorter folks (swmbo is 5'2"), but there was no "passion" in the experience. Resale value was good, service at Toyota was fine, nothing but routine service in 24K miles, but it was never my first choice to drive.

After 24K miles my XC70 is solid, even with our nasty tax-deprived roads (my road is still gravel) here in the American west. My Volvo dealer has been fantastic. And we couldn't be happier with our new OSD V50. We even had the chance to drive the V50 for almost a week through the south of England so we understand how good roads can be!

[griso4r]

Hi rojah,
quite sad to hear about your bad xc experience.
We got the car in the same period and we make more or less the same mileage but with a completely different satisfaction. I didn’t notice anything you said about suspensions, actually I’m becoming more and more accustomed to them, knowing the advantages and disadvantages of their setting. I drove it several times over 120 mph and I always felt more than sure. The narrow curves that at the beginning caused me a little bit of panic, now are done not much slower than driving my former bmw, with the dstc and haldex doing perfectly their job, obviously I won’t ask the handling of a sport car. In italy the dealers are not bad, probably slightly above the average of all others, I paid 300 euro for the first check, high but , again , in the average. So, nothing apologetic, just my experience :same car different stories, it happens. Let me wish you all the best with the new lexus and hope the read you again, maybe posting your impressions after some miles .
ciao

[dlr97]

The 'hybrid' Toyota RX400h and Highlander models are interesting, but in my opinion are way to heavy, and have disappointing highway fuel economy (27 mpg vs. 24 mpg for the RX350, 25 mpg for the gas XC70, way above 30 for the D5). They need to be redesigned from the chassis on up to better take advantage of this type of power train (as the Prius was).

If I am not mistaken, some of the conventional versions of these Toyotas use the same or similar auto trans that Vovlo uses.

My 2004 hasn't deteriorated noticibly in suspension feel after 25000 miles compared to new. Better tires are in order however.

[1Lieutenant]

Rojah,

I have owned three XCs...1999, 2002 and now 2005. The '99 was the biggest POS that I have ever owned. Used oil at a rate of 1Qt/1K (OK by dealer's standards) burned out bulbs and sockets at an incredible rate. Chewed up brakes almost as fast as it used oil. The 2002, by contrast, had minimal problems. No suspension problems in 50K, no oil use, no early brake pad failure, etc. Just a few software upgrades and motor mount. My 2005 has been completely trouble free.

My wife (primary driver of the 1999XC) has refused to own another Volvo. Her next car was a 2001 Lexus ES300. You can call this a rebadged Toyota, but I have driven both and the differences are substantial. Six years of use, one alternator failure late in the game (covered by the dealer even though no longer in warranty) Drove as well at year six as year one. Traded it for a 2007 RX350 (wife had double knee replacement...easier to enter/exit). Is this a rebadged Highlander. Drive both for some period of time and I would think not. Only 4K miles, but great build, smooth engine, 270HP out of 3.5L, better fuel economy than my XC, much smoother engine.

Why do I choose Volvo? I find that the European esthetic more pleasing to my eye than the Japanese. Why does my wife chose Lexus? Initial and enduring quality. Service for both has been equally good.

Best of luck with your ride. Hope all works out well.

Steve

[RB's]

to have a faultless, uneventful experience. You buy them for the fun, games, and prestige. Face it, there are a lot of reasons you buy vehicles, when you buy a Volvo, Benz, or Beemer, you're buying a brand and an image.

Admit it or not, it's the truth. I've been driving Euros since I was 18 and I grew up with them in 9 years in Europe. I love them. I own a 530i, an S430, an XC 70, and a Taurus. The Taurus is far more reliable than all of them (don't know about the Volvo yet), but do I get a kick from driving it??? Nope.

I rest my case....

[littlewaywelt]

Why is it that you feel the need to make a personal attack on the people that make a different choice than you...must be immaturity. ...or perhaps you're just much more intellegent than we are? :D

Here's hoping your lexus doesn't let you down in such a horrible life-changing manner as your volvo did. :rolleyes:

[al_roethlisberger]

Good luck with the Lexus, as Toyota does generally make a quality product(although I heard the Avalon was something of a wayward child at first release). Everyone I know that has owned a Toyota product has been very pleased with build quality and reliability.

I love my XC70, but it is almost out of warrantee, and I don't have the spare cash lying around for the pricey repairs it may require in the future, or $2k+ for an extended warrantee. And I still owe about 18k on it, so a new/used vehicle with more warrantee life may in the cards. We'll see.

I just had what appears to be my ETM fail at 46k miles, and this is on a 2004, so I dunno...

Good luck!
Al

[ChuckK]

Hybrid's will in time show that they are just a gap filler, I know the second hand market buyers are going to need some convincing to buy this type of car as it will be proven that the batteries are a non starter for the secondhand buyers - price - problems - premature


I think hybrids are much more than a "gap filler." I believe they will be with us for a long time. I get between 45 and 55 mpg on my Prius. Within 2 or 3 years I anticipate plug-in hybrids that will allow the owner to recharge a larger battery overnight and pay half as much on miles derived off the grid. Regarding resale, it is typical for a used Prius to cost more than a new one. And the first generation Prius in the U.S. (2001-2003) has held its value even after the second generation Prius came out.

The Lexus and Highlander hybrids are not Toyota's best effort. They have high performance but do not boast spectacular gas mileage. (But compare them to an XC70 in city driving or all-around driving instead of just highway and they are much better.) They should have replaced the 6 cylinder with a 4. The new Camry was done right.

Regarding the Lexus and the XC70, I drove the Lexus before I bought my 2004 XC70. I found the seats quite uncomfortable. The side of my right knee hit the sharpe edge of the center console. The XC70 was much more comfortable. In general Toyota makes lousy seats that are hard and don't provide thigh support. I put up with it in my Prius for environmental reasons. But I would hate to lay out $40K+ for a luxury car and suffer uncomfortable seats.

[vtie]

Hybrid's will in time show that they are just a gap filler, I know the second hand market buyers are going to need some convincing to buy this type of car as it will be proven that the batteries are a non starter for the secondhand buyers - price - problems - premature.

So, if they are a gap filler, what will come after them?

Electric vehicles? They rely even more on batteries.

Hydrogen? A fuell-cell hydrogen car has to be a electric hybrid, whether you like it or not.

Hybrids are here to stay for a long time, simply because they add to the efficiency of the energy usage (regenerative braking being the most prominent example)

We have a Prius as a second car, and Toyota gives us 5 years warranty on the car, 5 years free maintenance, and 8 years warranty on the entire hybrid system. Since we plan to drive 5 years with that car, this means we can offer a secondhand buyer another 3 years of warranty on the batteries and electric part. Not too bad.

[tom's new car]

that Lexus is one sweet ride!!!!

did you get the gold badging???

or how about the 20" spinning wheels???

what I find comical is the need for someone to come to a message board to justify their actions.........sounds like there's some guilt in there or something

maybe dumped for another chick in an XC