Where’s the dstc?

[DanO]

I’m getting ready to pull the trigger on a 2004 XC70, but I’m running into what I think to be a bizarre problem, and that is, my dealer cannot find one XC70 in his dealer search that has DSTC installed.  What is going on?  

You would think (and you’d be right) that Volvo, its dealers and its buyers are highly safety conscious and that an option that further increases safety would be highly popular!  Come on, the DSTC option costs less than the auto-dimming rearview and the grocery holder, which every XC70 seems to have—why not DSTC?  Something’s not right here and I can’t put my finger on it and it is holding up my purchase.  In the XC70 brochure, DSTC is mentioned at least 3 times, the bottom of pg. 16 makes it sound like it comes as a standard safety feature “In a Volvo XC70, safety is BUILT IN from the very start.”  My emphasis added.  It then goes on to explain the rather dramatic safety features of the OPTIONAL DSTC.  An option that no dealer orders.

Why did Volvo make DSTC standard on the XC90, Type R and Type T and not on the rest?  Why have ALL the dealers shied away from ordering DSTC for their XC70’s?  My salesman told me that in his opinion, $695 was too much to pay for what amounts to a “steering wheel sensor” and that’s probably why the dealers don’t order the option.  Huh?  I know you guys/gals will say that I should just special order one with DSTC, but that is not my point.  My question is: what is it about DSTC that makes it standard for XC90’s but a rare option for the XC70’s?  

Here’s a list of possibilities that I have come up with.  Keep in mind, I’m not trying to be argumentative here, I just want to get the best car for my family and don’t want to wait 2 months and pay an extra $700 for an option that I don’t need…but I will if I need it…I just don’t understand why the dealers don’t think we need/want it and why, if it is that great of a safety enhancement (which Volvo’s literature seems to suggest), why it is not a standard safety feature on the XC70.

A
Does DSTC not work well with the XC70?  Or, does DSTC not really work at all but standard on their more crash-prone vehicles just for liability reasons?  Just to help please the roll-over conscious, litigious public?  

B
Or does it really work well, but Volvo decided not to make it standard on the XC70’s because they were not concerned as much with XC70 safety, which is completely contrary to the company’s philosophy and not very understandable.

C
Or a combination of A and B, where it does work well but in only low-probability, marginal circumstances and therefore not useful as a standard feature (like air bags and cup holders), but in vehicles where there may be a higher statistical probably of accident injury and public litigiousness, it is worthwhile to avoid these accidents.

D
An oversight by a very reputable safety conscious auto maker and its dealers.

DanO

[mrb]

DSTC does work well--it wasn't available on XC 70 until 2003 as an option--Probably made an option since the SUV really made people aware of the feature.  On 2004 it is still an option and probably will remain as an option but may in future be part of a package option.  Keeping it this way would allow volvo to keep a wider price range for people wanting the XC but either not knowing the full benefits or on limited budgets.  Keep looking!

[Low Tide]

Its option "E"- Dealers do not request cars with the option installed.  

I had a discussion about this at the FDC.  Nearly all special orders include DSTC.  Volvo swears by it.  Most cars produced for the US/CAN market have premium and touring packages in them- because that is the most "sold" model.  Cars are pre-configured and allotted every year... the most common "sold" is the most common "made"- see the cycle.... unless Volvo pre-configured a lot of cars with DSTC, no one would ever see/buy them... so there aren't as many out there "sold" or "made"  Special orders and OSD cars are a different story....a majority of those HAVE DSTC!  Go figure why?  Maybe its because that's the only way to get one.

Its sort of like finding a Cold Weather Package on an S60 in Southern California- There aren't many!    


WARNING:  DEALER BASHING BELOW!

Dealers though, in the effort to themselves <---insert whatever blank you can think of... "safely & ignorantly" assume that; its not necessary; people won't miss it; don't know about it; won't pay for it...but that if it IS there, they might not sell as many vehicles because they can't accurately EXPLAIN WHAT IT DOES or why you would want to pay the "HUGE" sum of $695 in extra cost....

Summary:  Surely the grocery bag holder does more to sell cars than a state-of-the-art lifesaving safety feature right?  Uh huh... And veal calves really like living in a little box until they are old enough to be slaughtered...

DSTC remains a valuable feature in my opinion...and I assure you its is MUCH more than a "Steering Wheel Sensor"- which seems to me to marginalize and de-emphasize the other parts of the package... including the gyroscopes and the electronic/emergency braking assistance module.  I'm sure you kow about it, otherwise you wouldn't be so pissed that you can't find it on a dealer lot.  Call around.... someone had one!  By the way, the same thing can be said about the S60 and V70 AWD models... its available, but rare.

[Low Tide]

It was available in '02 as well.  It's in the brochure.  What about '01?  LLW? Taylor?  Anyone with an '01.. some tried to get it, most didn't find it.... hmmmm.  I sense a pattern.

[budrichard]

My understanding is that DSTC only became available with the Haldex system on the 03XC which is electronic AWD. The previous system as not electronic therfore no DSCTC.
Everything that Low Tide said about dealers is correct. The dealers are not smart. do not undertsand DSTC and only want to do what is in the dealers best interest which they percieve as selling you a vehicle at the lowest price so you will purchase. I had to unequivocally tell me dealer that I would not accept an 03 without DSTC and since there were none on order, I had to special order. I believe I had the first 03XC in the US with DSTC. I never listen to what a salesperson or dealer tells me. I explain that if they try to sell me what they think is in thier best interest, I will leave!
Order your XC with DSTC. -Dick

[Willy]

Hello,
I don't think it is fair to blame Volvo for not including DSTC in the standard package, since here in Belgium (and in a number of other countries), it is.
It's probably more correct to blame the one who does the import of the cars in your specific counrty, they can make a number of choices, for example, the XC90 in Belgium only comes with 7 seats while they are made with 5 seats as well.
My XC has DSTC, I honestly can't say if it works well (I even intend never to find out http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/happy.gif ) However, I feel good having DSTC since I believe it can be a life saving feature.
Willy

[littlewaywelt]

It was available in 01. I tried to get it/ordered but accepted early delivery of another car. I didn't even realize that it didn't have it for months/year?  The button is clearly visibile in my 01 xc catalog.
If by some lucky chance I get a buyback on my current xc, its replacement will have dstc.

[kayaking]

http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/lookaround.gif
Look up other conversations on dstc on this site...use the search engine...there is quite alot on this subject. My dealer did not recommend it...I don't think he could explain it well enough...but I would have ordered it after reading the "positives" about it on this site...I think it is well worth the extra $ and this "option" will probably be a standard feature on all volvo's soon....I'm still annoyed that my salesman did not push it a bit or explain it a bit more....

[DanO]

Thanks for the info everyone!  I’ve decided to go ahead and order the DSTC on my XC.  I’m hoping that it was a marketing and/or lack-of-knowledge that it was not included as a standard or standard option, and not an engineering decision.  From what I know about vehicle dynamics (just seat-of-pants knowledge as an avid track junkie and many years instructing at a local DE school), there is physical logic to the system.  If designed properly, DSTC should help reduce the likelihood of a spin in marginal traction decelerating cornering situations.  Obviously, it can not save the car in every situation, just like ABS cannot stop the car before desired in every situation.  It’s too bad that Volvo couldn’t work it into a standard option, but the technology is young—just like ABS and side/curtain airbags took some time to be standard.

One more thing about DSTC, my dealer said that because the XC70 has AWD, that it really didn’t need it.  I had to disagree completely!  In fact I told him that in my experience in driving my AWD Audi S4, there is even MORE need to have it!  You see, AWD can give a false sense of traction, especially in snow and ice, because acceleration is so easy (compared to other cars); this leads to a sense of traction that is out of line with reality when it comes to (especially decelerating) cornering and braking, where AWD cannot help and you are just like every other car out there.  That is, just because the XC70 can get off the line faster than the other cars (in snow/ice) does not mean that it can corner or brake faster; because it cannot…anyway I digress.

Thanks for all your helpful comments and hopefully in a few months I can help contribute to these forums as an owner!

DanO

[Art]

The fortunate occupants of this XC escaped without serious injury from this accident. The driver reported that DSTC would probably have prevented the calamity from occuring. http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/nervous.gif

XC Rollover (http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/accident_story/4-16-03.html)

[DanO]

DSTC may or may not have helped in this particular circumstance.  In the wet (or other slippery conditions), your car will only have about 70% of dry acceleration traction, 50% braking and only 20% cornering!  In these conditions (as well as dry), it is important to enter the corner at a speed where you can be on the throttle (maybe 5%) throughout the turn, that means that you’ve got to slowdown before the turn.  If you find yourself in the unfortunate situation of having to slowdown in a turn, then DSTC will be able to help, but only in a marginal way.

I think where DSTC would work out well is in a corner where you have some traction to spare (not going too fast for conditions and keeping some traction in the bank) and run into something unexpected like water or oil on the road, or a school bus, etc…I think there it is a real safety feature.  But if someone wants to be Mario Andretti and fly around corners at the limit or over the limit (which may have been the case in the rollover above), then there’s probably not much DSTC can do because DSTC comes into play ONLY when things start going wrong and tries to make a bad situation better.  That is, DSTC is not a performance enhancer; it does NOT make your car corner faster.  It is a safety feature that helps avoid total loss of vehicle control when all hopes of a nice smooth corner have already been lost.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, if one drives within a “safety zone” of traction, where the car is never at its limit then I think DSTC will be extremely helpful.  But if one is driving in a way that is out-of-line with the laws of physics, then the car, the DSTC and the occupants are just along for the ride.

DanO

[mrb]

SAFE DRIVING IS NEVER OUT OF LINE--we add safety features not to test them but for insusrance and hope we never have to test them.

[Low Tide]

Good decision DanO!

Did you look into the OSD program? Buying a car with DSTC off the "White List?" Since you are ordering the car, why not do it right and take the trip to the factory to pick it up? You'll likely save some significant money and have a memorable trip to boot!

As for your posts about DSTC... yes and no. DSTC is an active system that works in conjunction with the other safety systems. Although it will not "aid" in driving, it does act to exercise control over the vehicle course- and in doing so, change the dynamics of the Newtonian forces at work by applying counteracting forces in places where an opposing force would serve to correct a perceived stronger force already in effect. In this regard, DSTC is a very active system with noticable results. Corners are certainly not its only place of noticable function... In fact, high speed, straight path obstable avoidence with dry traction is another one that is pretty unique. DSTC equipped XC's also get the EBA brake system as well....

[phrider]

What's the EBA brake system?  (As in, what else did I miss by not getting the DTSC?)

I have DSC (BMW's version of DTSC) on my M Roadster, and it  does keep me out of trouble in this sports car frequently.  I'll bet it reduces tire wear a lot, too.

[Quietlymk_nnoise]

My dealer had to check all of the southwest to find my new 04 with dstc.  I will pick it up Thursday.

[Low Tide]

Do a forum search on EBA.  Its mentioned in the brochure as well.

[GeorgeXC70]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (phrider @ July 26 2003,11:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What&#39;s the EBA brake system? (As in, what else did I miss by not getting the DTSC?)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I believe it means &quot;electronic brake asisst&quot;