New member questions - please help!

[harrydog]

I've never owned a Volvo before, but I'm in love with the XC70. I have the opportunity to buy a new 2005 XC70 (base model - no options) for $28,500 and I have a few questions.
Is this a really good deal? It seems to me like it is. I think the factory is offering some major rebates.
I've been reading all I can about Volvos in general and the XC70 in particular and I've noticed that some people have had bad reliability problems, mostly electrical. One of the attractions of Volvo for me is the reputation for durability and longevity. I plan to keep this car for 10 years or so and put about 20K miles on it per year.
Also, is the Haldix (sp?) AWD system reliable over the long haul? I've read that this would be extremely expensive to repair/replace.
My wife is not convinced that I should get the XC. She says they cost more to maintain and she is sold on the reliability of all of our previous Japanese cars. She'd prefer that I get a subaru Outback.
Is there a high risk that I'll have problems with this car or are the problems I've read about quite rare? My wife wiould kill me (well, maybe not quite) if this car turns out to be problematic and becomes a money pit.
Looking for some guidance. Should I pull the trigger and buy it?

[AGXC70]

A subura is not in the same league as a xc70. Even though now it has a more powerful engine.

The inside of a Volvo alone is light years ahead of subaru. Plus it has more volume.

The Haldex system is in lots of cars besides Volvos such as Audis, etc.

Get the DTSC option... its well worth it for the money.

Their are probelms with the car but they seem to be on older models... plus what car doesnt have it fair share.

If you can, try and buy an XC70 using overseas delivery program and you save yourself even more.

Its a great car.... I know I find myself annoyerd at little things but I think thats in part because the car has such a reputation and my expectation were set so high.


Test drive it before you decide. I does tend to lean into corners a bit much... but the ride is so plush you dont feel so may little bumbs and potholes that you would in other popular cars ( like our Accord)

Good luck.

George

[harrydog]

Thanks George. I doubt I'll get any options at all because my budget dictates that I stay at or under $30K. For that reason I had never considered the XC before this, but with the factory incentives on the 2005 models, it can work for me.
What sort of little things are you experiencing?

[Willy]

Hi,
I am a firm believer of summer and winter tyres instead of all-seasons (bnot only for pure roadholding, all seasons often make more noise and vibrations than good quality one-season tyres :)). I managed to have my XC delivered on summer tyre so I only had to invest in winter tyres (in practice, it only amounts to the rims, if you buy steel ones with a nice cover, the cost can be kept quite low. Since you only drive one set of tyres at the same time, the extra cost of the tyres doesn't add to the bill).
Also, it may be possible to have the dealer replace the standard battery with the largest model that will fit, with all the electric "consumers" in these cars, you can't have too much power.
Of course, it is very important to listen to your wife as well :D
Willy

[ArtSmart]

Subaru Outbacks outperformes XC in independant driving tests conducted by several car magazines, so I would not discard it so fast. There might be not as much 'luxury' in the interior but it is definitely not "light years ahead".

If you read this forum then you already probably know the answer to your question. If reliability is a major criteria XC is not the car for you. You'll have to deal constantly with little things (such as rusting lug bolts, decolorating plastics etc.) plus chances are you'll be stuck with expensive repairs (things like ETM or transmission) by the time your warranty expires. I don't agree with George down there that problems "seem to be on older models". Those problems were never solved on newer models, so they are bound to come out when the newer models get higher mileage. Sorry to say, but Volvo doesn't stand behind its product anymore.

People here might argue this point to death but the fact remains that they are just blindly exited about their cars and there is nothing that can change their opinion (except maybe completely loosing power in the middle lane of a busy highway :eek: ). If you want to actually have solid data sign up for consumer report and see yourself the rating for different cars you are considering .

I don't know about reliability of Subaru, but if reliablity is what you seek, go with Toyota.

[skibo]

That sounds like a pretty good deal - around $7000US off sticker price - I've heard of people on this forum doing better, but overall, it sounds like a good price. I doubt you'd do even that well with the overseas deliver program that someone suggested above.

Buy or not? I struggled myself for a long time, and I never really could rationalize the Volvo vs. the Outback. I think the logical choice is the Subie, but in my area, Subarus are very common, and I wanted something a bit unusual. Plus, I am a bit of a euro-phile, so i went with my heart instead of my brain. I also fear the repair costs, having just put 210,000 miles on a Honda with very few failures. But, that's the price of admission for an unusual car.

[harrydog]

I think that's what it's going to come down to...going with my heart or going with my brain. Just viewing the photos of some of the XC's here makes me want to rush out and purchase one. I generally like European cars much more than their Japanese counterparts. There's just something about them that the Japanese can not duplicate.
But it's really tough to beat the reliability of a Toyota or Honda, and Subaru seems to be very close to them in that sense. If this were going to be a car for pleasure use only, the reliability factor wouldn't matter so much for me. But this will be my daily commute car and will also be used for occasional vacation trips.
It's going to be a very tough decision.
If only I would win the lottery. I would make this decision so easy! :)

[Low Tide]

I wouldn't hesitate to go Volvo. You really can't compare the Outback with the XC70- they are two totally different cars for two totally different types of people. The only car you can really compare the XC70 to is the Audi All Road.

At the price you mention, I'd venture that this is a very good deal. Although I would attempt to wrok a couple of options into you budget. It is hard to put a price on safety and comfort. The premium package being one that is hard to pass up given the increased comfort. Look for options that help with relation to your climate- and also realize that you can likely get options tossed into the package at a reduced cost as well.

Good luck

[Palisandr]

I think you should go ahead and buy it. I am the same crop - I only bought Volvo XC70 last year because of the incentives and also the base model (although 2004 came with the climate package and on MY2005 it is an option). If you wouldn't like it (I think you will - it is a very solidly built car) you will be able to sell it not loosing too much because of the reduced original price. At $8000 discount for a base car and giving a little to a dealer (around $400-500) it is difficult to pass. I just went for my 7500 mi scheduled maintenance. Everything looks perfect and I haven't had a single problem yet. It certainly could not be compared to a Subaru. Closest (and more expensive) competitor is Audi Allroad.

[gibbons]

We have a Subaru and an XC, and in my opinion, the Volvo is a much more substantial car. Having torn both apart doing stereos and minor maintenance, I can say that the Volvo easily wins. A while ago I posted pictures of the inner doors of each with the door panels removed. Looking where 99.9% of owners never see tells the story. The Subaru was really cheesey, the Volvo was very classy. We like our Subaru for beating around ski resorts, high school parking lots, etc, but the XC is just plain nicer.

[BillAileo]

I concur in Gibbons' observations. I've owned two Subarus ('96 Outback, '97 Legacy GT). They were both reliable, relatively easy to work on vehicles. However, I believe the comfort level in the Volvo is substantially better than Subaru. In addition, the price you referenced seems very good. The only caveat I would offer is the complexities of the Volvo's electronics, in my opinion, will require you, if/when problem arise, to have access to a good dealer. Very few independents have the capacity to deal with such issues. Accordingly, it may not make economic sense to try to keep modern Volvos much beyond the warranty period.

Bill

[XC70Geo]

Important question: Do you know a good Volvo dealer near you? If so, go with the XC70.
I have my XC for one year. Had some minor problem, but my dealer solved them. I'm fully satisfied, and have a smile on my face every time I start the car.

You can read about problems on this forum. 'st, you can follow: if you have a good dealer, you are safe. 2nd, take a look at other brands forums, and you will find this brand "virtually trouble free".

[John@CdnRockies]

Similar to Gibbons we have experienced owning both cars. Thus far, our Volvo (20,000 miles on it) has been near perfect but I recognize that it will cost more in maintenance over the long term. Like yourself, I keep my cars forever (our Camry went 250,000 miles).

On the plus side, the ride is extremely secure and relaxing - well tested as we regularly commute through the Rockies to our country place 600 miles away. Winter snow handling is also a plus and the Haldex in later models (including ours) is flawless. It has saved my bacon when pulling a 3,000 pound boat out of the water on a rising tide.:o Comfort of the seats beats the Subie hands down. We are also amazed at how much we can cram into this wagon - way more than we put into the Jeep for instance.

Like any Japanese product, the Subie will probably cost less to maintain. It's a bit tinnier in terms of sheet metal and inside luxuries - but that's subjective. It also has a rip-snorting engine these days, but your budget may not extend to that model.

A downside on the Volvo is that many repairs can only be performed by the dealer. If you are a handyman, the level of computer integration may peeve you - don't know if that applies to the latest Subie's as well.

One aspect you will never regret is being part of this car-owner board. Folks are helpful and generally polite. It's an intangible benefit, but sure helps to reconnect you with the car and fellow owners across the world. If you do buy the Volvo you will be hooked to the Internet as well.;)

John

[1Lieutenant]

Harrydog,

Be aware that forums, such as this one, tend to select for enthusiasts, and complainers. The enthusiasts will love the car not matter what happens and the complainers.....well you know. My 2002XC was probably the most reliable Volvo I ever owned. Only a few minor problems.

When I was looking to replace that vehicle (lease was up) I also looked at the Subaru Outback XT (great car, nice interior, but not quite up to Volvo standards), Honda Pilot, etc. If you go to their forums you will see the same complaining regarding multiple issues. According to the Subaru Owners forum, many Outbacks suffer from predictable head gasket failures and excessive ping (that will not go away even with 93 Octane). The Honda Pilot forum has many posts with engines that will not start or run rough. Yet these are considered the most reliable vehicles made!

Consider that people who have problem cars will look online for help with understanding and correcting the problem. So many times it appears that ALL the vehicles suffer from this problem.

Despite the fact that the Volvo ETM and 5 speed Geartronic transmission are noted, and expensive problems, I would like to know the actual percentage of failures that have occured.

Sorry for being long winded.

Steve

[ChuckK]

$28,500 for a new 2005 XC70 sounds like a steal. Are you sure there's no catch? I would say go for it. Let us know how it works out.

[harrydog]

Thank you all for the EXCELLENT feed back. I can see that this forum would be an extremely helpful place for a Volvo owner.
I was on the verge of buying the XC but then yesterday, I decided I would back out of the deal. Now, after reading the latest posts, I'm back to thinking I should go for it. There is no doubt in my mind that the Volvo is a more solidly built car with higher quality materials.

What has me worried is the cost of maintaining it. Is that going to be substantially higher than an Outback? I actually enjoy doing the simple things like changing the oil, but most anything else I would not attempt. The reported electrical gremlins really scare me. The transmission stories scare me. And the comment that it might not make economical sense to keep a modern Volvo beyond the warranty period makes me uncomfortable because I want to keep this car for at least 7 years and possibly 10. I'm hoping for 200,000 miles and I want dependability. I don't expect perfection, but I don't want a car that is always in the shop and costing me an arm and a leg to own after the initial purchase.

I have no idea if any of the local Volvo dealers here in the Cincinnati area are any good. That may be the clincher, as some have said.
Is there anyone with knowledge of Cincinnati area Volvo dealers?

[harrydog]

One other quick word on options. I've noticed that it's hard to find one with exactly the options you want. I really do not want leather. It seems the only way to find that is in a base model with NO options whatsoever. I could order one built the way I want it but then I wouldn't be getting the factory and dealer incentives that are being offered now.
Am I going to regret getting a base car with no options? The seem to be fairly well equiped even in base trim?

[BillAileo]

My '03 XC70 is the base model & we have been very happy with it.

Bill

[1Lieutenant]

Enclosed is a link to the Subaru Outback Owners web site. They have a specific section for head gasket problems an another for problems in general. No car is trouble free. Even Japanese cars can have significant, and expensive chronic issues.

http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=60

Whatever you do, best of luck.

Steve

[XC70Geo]

I could live without leather, but I would need DSTC. You can read threads about DSTC is a must have.
You are thinking in long term, so you should have the best you can to be satisfied 3-5 years later.

[carl]

I want to keep this car for at least 7 years and possibly 10. I'm hoping for 200,000 miles and I want dependability. I don't expect perfection, but I don't want a car that is always in the shop and costing me an arm and a leg to own after the initial purchase.
hd,
Sorry, there are no guarantees in life or like you are looking for in a new car. For the best reliability, on average, buy the Toyota or the Honda and you've got the best shot at your 200,000 miles with minimal problems. Otherwise you're setting yourself up for failure. Certainly, there are many Volvos with 200 or 300 thousand miles on them, but as you can tell even from this XC-lovers forum, there are known issues too -- it's worth the trade-off for me. I love my XC70 and I hope it will last 10 years and go 150,000 miles, but I realize that there will be times in the shop too when it will cost a bunch of money to get the car back. Get the DSTC (only $695 list), but you might have problems this time of year finding exactly the car that you want.
Good luck with your decision,
Carl