Volvo is outta here!

[ytaebnairb]

Well I wanted to tke a moment and thank everyone on this forum for their extrememly usefull information. I have diagnosed and repaired several of the Volvo quirks and undocumented features. Over the past 2 years of ownership I have formulated an entirely different opinion of Volvo... Great cars, but I can't afford the service requiremnts and TLC for this beast. I think the final straw was the $1,300 repair for the throttle body at 61k miles. Prior to that it was the $3,600 transmission replacement at 55k (thankfully I managed to get that done for $500 only because I had complained about the tranny at 40k and the stealership supposedly "reprogrammed it"). I think Volvo needs to take a look at their sexy product line and hire some Lexus engineers to square this brand away. I will most likely never visit the dealership again, unless they are serving free lunch! (gotta get my money back somehow.. :-) )

2001 Volvo V70XC with 62k miles very clean and female driven... traded in for 2005 Toyota Sienna XLE.

Moving on to the Sushi and away from the meatballs! Best of luck to the rest of you, and Happy Holidays!

[Morvran]

Well I'd say if you moved on to a Sienna you were looking for a different type of car anyway hehe.

Seriously though, sometimes people get 'bad ones'. I don't think you're issues are typical of Volvo, but you've had a rough go of it and I don't blame you for jumping ship. And I fully understand how this would make you not want to ever go back (same reason I'll never touch a Land Rover again, even though I friggin loved that car at the same time).

[gibbons]

Ya know, this is just the sort of thing I was worried about when we bought our 04. I was wondering if we were being dumb switching from brands that have proven loyal to us to a brand that has been know to be finicky. However, after a perfect year and 13K miles, we are feeling pretty good. This is our favorite car we have ever had, by a longshot.

Maybe it was the female driving that did it in. :rolleyes: I cringe when my wife drives: hard acceleration and hard braking. I do things like let the idle speed drop before putting it in gear, she can somehow get it in gear and floored at the same time she turns the ignition key, as if she has two right hands (or so it seems). :eek: I am glad that you put the gender jab in first ;)

It won't be necessary to wish you good luck with the Toyota, I think the Toyata is default good luck. But good luck anyway.

[Dr Fonta]

I traded my ultra dependable Mitsubishi Montero Sport for the safety of Volvo. I actually had a 98 and 02 model Montero before I went with Volvo. I am prepared for the higher cost of routine maintenance, however, I hope to not have the same problems you described above. It does sound like you had a lot of problems, compared to most. Don't blame you one bit. I absolutely love driving my XC, and I feel that my family is a lot safer compared to the Montero Sport. I just hope the dependability is there.

[philosophicaldreamer]

Undoubtedly Volvos, like most European cars, are much more demanding in terms of maintenance than Japanese cars. What happened to you with your Volvo was an unfortunate statistical anamoly. I am on my fourth Volvo, and they have always been very reliable, provided that I followed the maintenance recommendations. Friend of mine had a similar experience with his BMW and eventually switched to a Honda. What he learnt, however, was that no brand of car is immune from lemons and very quickly realized that his Honda cost him more than his BMW, which eventually lead him to his current Mercedes. To be honest Japanese have succeeded in developing reputation for building very reliable cars and deservedly so; but in the process of beating competition in building more reliable cars, they have sucked fun out of car desig and drive. Whether you drive a Honda, Toyta, or Subaru they all feel and look the same. Hard to explain, but Japanese cars seem to lack certain charisma of European models. I must admit that I am partial to European cars--maybe because I am European bred or maybe because I prefer the way European cars feel. I hope that your experience with Toyota is going to be joyful. But if I am right, once the newness of your car wears off and it will become another utilitarian object in your life, you will, at least for a second, think of how much more fun driving it was to drive your old Volvo, when she worked properly. This is what drove my friend to ultimately trade his Honda for a Mercedes. He told me, "my mind was telling me to stay with the Honda whereas my heart was screaming go back to European model . . . so I did." Good luck.

Ta-ta, j.

[ChuckK]

To be honest Japanese have succeeded in developing reputation for building very reliable cars and deservedly so; but in the process of beating competition in building more reliable cars, they have sucked fun out of car desig and drive. Whether you drive a Honda, Toyta, or Subaru they all feel and look the same.


The first car I ever bought was a two-year-old BMW 2002 back in 1972. It was a great European sports sedan at a reasonable price (BMWs were once affordable). I long believed that the Japanese could not compete with the Europeans in the fun-to-drive category. Then in August 2002, after reading rave car magazine reviews with a fair degree of skepticism, I decided to test drive a Subaru WRX. I was so impressed I almost immediately bought one (the "wagon" model, which could better be called a hatchback). The only thing I have done to it is put very good tires on it. It is without a doubt, the most thrilling sports sedan I have ever driven. (One leading car magazine tested a $24,000 WRX against a BMW 330xi and an Audi S4, each costing about $40,000, and two of the three reviewers chose the WRX as the best of the three.)

So beware the old Japanese stereotypes. Not only is Subaru making world-class performance cars, but Toyota is years ahead of Detroit and Europe in hybrid technology, shattering the notion that the Japanese copy well but do not innovate. Ford finally resorted to licensing Toyota's first-generation Prius technology to get its hybrid Escape out.

[philosophicaldreamer]

So beware the old Japanese stereotypes. Not only is Subaru making world-class performance cars, but Toyota is years ahead of Detroit and Europe in hybrid technology, shattering the notion that the Japanese copy well but do not innovate. Ford finally resorted to licensing Toyota's first-generation Prius technology to get its hybrid Escape out.[/QUOTE]

I would be incline to agree with you if it were not for the fact that I have seen and ridden in Toyotas and Hondas. Yes, they are very competent cars but they are exceedingly boring. These are "cookie-cutter" cars that get as expensive as European models. As a matter of fact, I remember someone on this board saying that when he was looking for a new car he went to his local Subaru dealer, and they wanted more money for their top model than Volvo was asking for its XC70. As as far as I am concerned Suburu Outback cannot compete with XC70. You can buy a cheap Mercedes for $26000. Of course, Japanese make good cars. But those cars that are interesting and fun to drive are as expensive as European cars. And to be honest if I am going to pay $50000 or $60000 for a car, I might as well get me a nice S class Mercedes or BMW 7 series. As far as hybrid technology is concerned, I believe it was Ford that developed it and then sold it to Japanese. I am not that impressed with hybrid technologies yet. These cars are too sluggish, too small, and too expensive to entice someone like me. Now in twenty or thirty years, I am certain that we all be driving these cars. However, we should not forget about Europeans perfecting diesel technologies. Moder diesels are almost as efficient in terms of oild consumption as the hybrid cars are. Friend of minde just bough diesel Volkswagen passat, and this car gets around 40 miles per gallon. I wish I could buy an XC70 diesel. Hence, I hate discord and would love to agree with you. But at this point I will stick to driving Volvos. And you might be right that my entire opinion is informed by prejudice or stereotype, but I am one of those who never runs with the crowd, so to speak. I am somewhat a contrarian--if you tell me that this is what everyone is doing, then I am looking for my way out. In the States most of my friends are buying Japanese cars because they make sense and then the same friends complain how nice my Volvo is in comparison to their new purchases. Go and figure . . .

[Filibuster]

Quality of Asian brands is undoubtably very good. However they are usually not as stylish as western brands and you cannot order them "taylor made".
I believe that the Volvo engines and bodies are extremly well put together. They also have some nice features like strudy rubber mats which are not as flimpsy as some competition. etc etc. However Volvo will not produce all parts in a car and some parts will fail.

Therefore I think it is a shame that Volvo and western car brands only give 2 years of warranty (in Europe at least). I think 5 years or 100.000 km should be the norm.


I could very well consider buying a Japanes car next time for the 3 year waranty and their quality reputation alone.

[philosophicaldreamer]

In the States Volvo gives four year/50 thousand miles warranty. Guessing from your post you live in Europe, and Europeans are more tolerant of short warranties than Americans. In America you could not sell a car if you did not provide a decent warranty. I will not be surprised if very soon Volvo finds itself pressured by competition to offer 5 or even 6 year standard warranties.

Ta-ta, j.

[philosophicaldreamer]

So beware the old Japanese stereotypes. Not only is Subaru making world-class performance cars, but Toyota is years ahead of Detroit and Europe in hybrid technology, shattering the notion that the Japanese copy well but do not innovate. Ford finally resorted to licensing Toyota's first-generation Prius technology to get its hybrid Escape out.

I would be incline to agree with you if it were not for the fact that I have seen and ridden in Toyotas and Hondas. Yes, they are very competent cars but they are exceedingly boring. These are "cookie-cutter" cars that get as expensive as European models. As a matter of fact, I remember someone on this board saying that when he was looking for a new car he went to his local Subaru dealer, and they wanted more money for their top model than Volvo was asking for its XC70. As as far as I am concerned Suburu Outback cannot compete with XC70. You can buy a cheap Mercedes for $26000. Of course, Japanese make good cars. But those cars that are interesting and fun to drive are as expensive as European cars. And to be honest if I am going to pay $50000 or $60000 for a car, I might as well get me a nice S class Mercedes or BMW 7 series. As far as hybrid technology is concerned, I believe it was Ford that developed it and then sold it to Japanese. I am not that impressed with hybrid technologies yet. These cars are too sluggish, too small, and too expensive to entice someone like me. Now in twenty or thirty years, I am certain that we all be driving these cars. However, we should not forget about Europeans perfecting diesel technologies. Modern diesels are almost as efficient in terms of oil consumption as the hybrid cars are. Friend of mine just bough a diesel Volkswagen passat, and this car gets around 40 miles per gallon. I wish I could buy an XC70 diesel. Hence, I hate discord and would love to agree with you, but at this point I will stick to driving Volvos. And you might be right that my entire opinion is informed by prejudice or stereotype, but I am one of those who never runs with the crowd, so to speak. I am somewhat a contrarian--if you tell me that this is what everyone is doing, then I am looking for my way out. In the States most of my friends are buying Japanese cars because they make sense and then the same friends complain how nice my Volvo is in comparison to their new purchases. Go and figure . . .[/QUOTE]

[CrazyTiger]

Volvo in Asia gives 3 years warranty and maintenance free package. So for the next 3 years, all I have to pay (if any) is just my tyres if it wear off.

In Asia, no doubts that there are more Japanese car than European car on the road. But jsut imagine... (IMO)... If you were to have a head on collision between a Japanese car and a Volvo...whcih car would you rather be in?! I will take a Vovlo anytime! I have seen too many accidents in my country and I have actually seen a japanese car crashed right into a Volvo and guess what?! The japanese car was totally "disfigured"..but the Volvo has it fare share of impact but it was still ok except for the bumper...!!

No doubt that the Japanese cars are less expensive to maintain but if you have a family with kids, I don't think anyone wants to be compromise on safety...:)

[hunterxc]

I had a leased 2002 Acura MDX that I traded 2 years into the 4 year lease with 37000 miles for the XC 70. Here's why, the MDX was a good vehicle and my family misses the room and every couple of months, like today, we miss the 3d row seat. On the other hand, the fit and finish of the MDX is not even close to the superior XC 70. The Honda Nav system beats Volvo hands down. The MDX is having transmission problems and there are other smaller but annoying problems and the maintenence is not cheap. And yes the MDX was boring. I have no regrets with this trade. I leased the Volvo and will trade it before the warranty expires. Finally, I saw a 2001 XC 70 at a dealer with 110,000 miles on it and the interior was flawless. Most American and Japanese vehicles do not wear as well.

[Morvran]

I disagree that the Honda Nav system beats the Volvo one hands down. There may be some features that are better, but the Volvo one more than stands up to any I've used.

Now first I have to say that the Volvo one I use is in my wife's new S40, and it is slightly different from the one in other Volvo models (brighter/sharper screen, better steering wheel controls, flips up instead of rising up). But the Volvo version has gotten me into and out of places that weren't on any maps I had. My inlaws also love the fact that they can change the language to Spanish. Most importantly, I love that Volvo mounts the screen on top of the dash so your eyes are never far from the road (and that it's an independent screen).

[anthonya9999]

I've read some comparisons here between Volvo and Subaru. There's one area that I believe subaru falls down to Volvo and many other cars -- safety. I know what the crash tests tell you -- they're the safest in their class, etc. Sorry, but when you drive one, you can't help but feel like a flea on the road compared to the many Suburbans, Excursions and Hummers that populate the road -- not to mention full size pickups.

They're dinky cars. If it wasn't for the AWD, they'd be in the Kia or Hyundai weight class. And their continued refusal to out frames around their windows just befuddles me.

The XC just seems so much more substantial in comparison -- I feel like I've got a fighting chance against the many beasts out there.

[philosophicaldreamer]

The XC just seems so much more substantial in comparison -- I feel like I've got a fighting chance against the many beasts out there.[/QUOTE]

Let's put it this way: My 965 Volvo was plowed into at 70 MPH by an SUV, and I and my wife walked away from the accident. My V90 was plowed into by a Ford Excursion, and I walked away from the accident whereas the Excursion flipped over and was totaled. I would say that Volvo is an excellent alternative to all these SUVs that make so little sense. I wonder how previous generations survived without SUVs :p

Ta-ta, j.

[littlewaywelt]

I disagree that the Honda Nav system beats the Volvo one hands down. There may be some features that are better, but the Volvo one more than stands up to any I've used.
...I love that Volvo mounts the screen on top of the dash so your eyes are never far from the road (and that it's an independent screen).

I don't have my NAV dvd yet so I haven't played with the Volvo system, but I have read the manual several times.

For me it comes down to a few key issues/features.

Volvo absolutely wins for visibility. When you look at the NAV screen what's happening on the road is still in your peripheral vision. That's pure safety and a big deal. IMO, Volvo has to have good visibility because it looks like you have to drill down through too many menues. The buttons for Volvo aren't exactly ergometrically located; you really have to torque your hand around to access the two buttons and joystick pad. It's missing an auto dimming mode which is easy via the sunset time in the signal.
Volvo doesn't offer the ability to predetermine a route. If it uses the same data as Mapquest NAVTEQ to determine the route, I think I may be disappointed. This is a major flaw. If the system won't go the direction I want or am told is the best way to go and it has to autoroute, I have to know which way I am going and not be blindly following the NAV directions, which sort of defeats the purpose for those that are directionally challenged. Not that I am and not that there is anything wrong with that. ;) For example when I drive from DC to CT I go over GWB and then up the merrit, taconic, hutch, etc. If I know I am supposed to go that way, but not where the turns are it would be easy to go right by. Some systems auto-route, but allow you to insert a turn ahead of time allowing the machine to redo the route.

Honda wins for ease of input. I'm a big fan of touch screens rather than scrolling through menus. Yes it's messy, but that's what windex is for. Additionally, the voice activation on Honda's system is awesome. The Honda doesn't offer split screen which is a really cool Volvo feature.

[Palisandr]

My Volvo XC70 2004 is my first European car. I live in the States, but have a European (Eastern) background. When I just came to the US I have started with Hondas, had two of them (1982 and 1989, both used). Then we switched to Mitsubishis (Expo 1995 and Galant 1998, both new). Now, along with an XC70 we have a Toyota Sienna 2004. Our family in Europe went through VW Golf, Passat, Mitsu Lancer, Mitsu Pajero (Montero) and now has VW Bora (Jetta) 2002, Toyota RAV4 2004 and Landcruiser Prado 2004. Japanese makes are certainly more reliable mechanically than the European makes, even a MItsubishi, which has really bad time in the USA. But a car in the class of Accords/Camries/Galants/Subarus are certainly not a match to the Volvo XC70. Ergonomics, controls, solid feel, safety record is all in favor of the Volvo (I once said to my wife, that last time I had such a comfortable feeling, was probably in my mother's womb:). I just hope that the reliability of our XC70 will be good (although, JD Powers rates it pretty high at 4 out of 5). Plus, free scheduled maintenance for 3years/36K should help. I tend to keep the cars for at least 6+ years and would hate to see it falling apart for no apparent reason.

[CrazyTiger]

IMO.....XC70 Rules.....:D

Shouldn't we have a poll here?!