XC70 alignment question

[ajf10]

Are there any specific alignment issues I should know about before I take the car in for new tires? I didn't rotate my tires enough, and the fronts are really worn, so I'm getting a new set. There have been NO issues regarding pulling or anything like that. Car has 30000 miles.

I ask because I just took my VW passat in for a new set of tires, and the tire dealer pushed hard for an alignment which I refused. I know for a fact that passats are difficult to align properly by design and that few independent shops have the alignment racks for the job.

So, I'm just wondering if the XC70 can be properly aligned by a run of the mill shop and whether there is any reason to get an alignment when I put new tires on.

[gibbons]

The physical alignment is realatively easy, getting it done right is a can of worms. Here are some things I learned, after I got a copy of the actually Volvo VADIS manual pages faxed to me by another dealer.

1. I thought everyone automatically did this and it was a no-brainer, but you must do all four wheels at once. Don't laugh, the shop my dealer sent me to for my "<12K freebie" did just the fronts. I found out when I took the car back in because the camber gauge I made to double check their work showed that they had botched it. They had. So I took the car to a decent shop, and gave the dealer the bill. They reimbursed me.

2. Here's one the dealer didn't even know. If you have DSTC, you need a VADIS update after an alignment. Plus, the steering wheel needs to be actually removed from the column and repositioned! I don't have DSTC, but found this through my own investigation.

3. There is no way to change the caster angle, it's fixed. But mine was fixed within the Volvo specs, so no biggie.

4. I took my cheesey (but apparently deadly accurate) camber gauge to the dealership and checked a bunch of XCs. All of them had the camber set at greater than the specification. That's why XCs look like the front wheels tilt in quite a bit. Mine was like that, and I had the shop put them right at the spec which stood the wheels more vertical. But it didn't make any difference at all in the handling. However, I "feel" better about it. The spec is -.3+/-.9 degrees. Mine (and all others) was at -.6.

5. Changing the camber is an iterative process, and can be a real trial and error work out. So take a box of doughnuts and treat the technician really nice before he starts. It involves loosening two bolts on the strut that clamp the spindle in place. Loosen too much, it flops all the way down and you loose the starting point and have to start again. Don't loosen it enough, and it won't move. When the bolts are final torqued after is it set, it changes a bit. So you have to find that amount, loosen the assembly, put that amount in as an offset, and then re-torque the bolts which will pull it to right on.

6. If you go to a shop with a Sun computerized alignment rack system, beware that the alignment specs in their data base is wrong! They show that the wheels should be toed out, they should be toed in. I worked with Sun engineers in Alabama and Ireland (who didn't like getting second guessed) to get that one straight. I faxed them the VADIS sheets. They said they would incorporate the corrections in their "next data base release". I had the shop put mine at the right specs, but then the Sun print out shows that my alignment is wrong (based on their data). I made a toe gauge that measures off the wheels, and based on my toe guage and some trigonometry, I finally have it right. Note to the forum: If you had your car aligned on a Sun rack prior to mid 2004, your toe is off!

See, I told ya it is easy. Only 4 times on an alignment rack and way too much leg work on my part. :rolleyes: But hey, mine is on the money!

[John@CdnRockies]

Never would have guessed about a Vadis update being required for our DSTC-equipped rig. Thanks for bringing that point home Gibbons. I will make darn sure that any alignments get done through the dealer and get a printout of specs for good measure.

John

[gibbons]

John, yeah, a DSTC equipped car has an angle sensor in the steering column. After we bought our car, and I was reading about DSTC in the owners manual, I wanted it. I thought they could just add the dash switches and plug them into the harness, and then update the software. As it turns out, there really is extra hardware. All Volvo (corp) said was kinda, "no can do". I don't know if that's cause the customer service people didn't want to bother with researching it, or if the engineers told them it would be difficult and they didn't feel like explaining it to a dumb customer like me, or what.

[dlr97]

Gibbons,

Could you post all the correct alignment values? I want to check our 2004. I have my own toe and camber guages.

Cheers,
Dave

[ajf10]

Ok thats excellent but could you please answer my question, which is: do I need an alignment if my car is driving fine, and I am just getting a new set of tires?

[BillAileo]

If your ride is fine AND the old tires do not show signs of inappropriate wear, then, in my opinion, you don't need an alignment.

Bill

[AWD*V70XC]

Are there any specific alignment issues I should know about before I take the car in for new tires? I didn't rotate my tires enough, and the fronts are really worn, so I'm getting a new set. There have been NO issues regarding pulling or anything like that. Why are your front tires worn more than the back ones?? as you are driving a MY01 car I would have been very worried about your VC undercarriage, even a slight mm out on depth could have caused you major problems. If you hear a knocking noice coming from the rear end you have VC problems.

I always get alignments done with new tires and I try and beat them down on the price as well, they also do something with the steering 'bar' :confused: to correct the direction/pull which can cause uneven wear on certain sides of the front wheels.

Try and come to some sort of deal with them, FCS you are paying enough to have four new tires at once so they have made their money out of you the rest is only labour and that only takes twenty minutes, no big deal there, especially if they are not busy. :rolleyes:

[ajf10]

So I looked back at my service records. I had the tires rotated twice, at 5300 and 13600 miles. Not so confident that they actually did it at all the second time, since they had a check list with a bunch of check boxes, including "lubricate power antenna" which doesnt exist on my car!

But anyhow, now I'm at 29000 and the fronts are very worn, almost to the tread wear indicators, the rears are much less worn. They are the original scorpion S/T.

Since I put 16000 miles (and maybe more)since the last rotation, is that enough to explain the uneven wear, or should I be concerned about something else? The rears are evenly matched, and the fronts are evenly matched. I assume they are going to wear at different rates normally, right?

[gibbons]

dlr97- You always have such accurate, detailed information that I thought you were a dealer, hence the "dlr" in your name. Anyway, here are the correct V70XC/XC70 alignment specifications, all values in degrees:

Front Camber -.3 +/- .9
Rear Camber (not adjustable) +.3 +/- 1.0
Castor Angle (not adjustable) +5 +/- 1.0
Castor Angle side to side symetry (not adjustable) +/- .25
Front Toe-In +.2 +/- .1
Rear Toe-In +.2 +/- .2
Thrust Angle centerline deviation 0 +/- .25

Other fun facts from the sheets I have:

*The rear camber on an XC is +.3, the rear camber on a V70 AWD is -.3

*The castor angle on an XC70 is 5, on a V70 AWD it's 4.

*If your XC is properly aligned, the front wheels will tip inward at the top, and the rear wheels will tip outward.

*An XC70 front wheels toe in, an XC90 front wheels toe out. Even weirder is that on an XC90, the front wheels toe-out -.2, and rears toe-in +.3!

*You might think that .3 of a degree isn't much, but you can definitely see the difference between .3 and .6. However, changing my car from -.6 (within the specification range) to -.3 didn't make any noticeable difference in handling or steering.

[dlr97]

No, I'm just a regular guy, no dealer! Actually dlr97 indicates my initials and racing number. I used to road race in SCCA showroom stock class, and did my own alignments, so I have some portable alignment tools. I have a simple trammel bar toe guage and a rather nice small computerized camber guage (Smartcamber). I can do 4-wheel toe by using strings on jack stands (but really it is so much easier to have that done on a computerized alignment rack).

I notice that IPD carries eccentric camber bolts for the front struts that would make adjustment easier and give a wider range of adjustment:

http://www.ipdusa.com/ProductsCat.aspx?CategoryID=1626&NodeID=5148&RootID=629

Interesting that the rear is slightly positive cambered. Probably camber changes in the negative direction when there is more load in the rear. Also under cornering load the outside rear probably gains more camber than the outside front.

The front castor (+5 deg.) is rather nice; it gives some useful camber gain on the outside wheel when the front wheels are steered into tight turns.

[ashpee]

What's wrong with mine?

measureing camber at the front gave figures of -2.1. I know that it is incredibly bad and I know that it looks horrible and eats my tyres. But together with the dealer, I looked for the right shocks (as adjusment bolts are at their end, 2degrees remember), as they are the only thing I can think of that has the wrong specification. Shocks are mentioned on the plate in the inner wing and we ordered again the right items, according to this number. This week we received exactly the same shocks. So, problem can't be cured for now.

What's the problem here? BTW, can XC's have the same shocks as 'regular' V70's, as I was told that the shocks in my car (plate) were also listed under the V70.

What's that about the hard knocking sound coming from the rear? I have had that some times in my 12-2000 XC , especially when coming down from some speed and braking without pressing the clutch. Don't tell me the visco is broken. If so, how can I be sure, as the car is still under used car warranty and I want to be sure if I come knocking on the dealer's door with again a rather expensive breakdown?

Thanks for any useful help.
Hans

[dtlayman]

We think we need an alignment due to the car pulling slightly to the left on the interstate. We don't think we have uneven tire wear and we drive the car carefully. Tires have been rotated regularly.

Gibbons provided some specifications in degrees. Are these good for a 2001 V70XC? The owner manual seems to only provide toe-in information in mm.

We want to make sure we know what needs to be done when we take it to a local shop. Any further advice would be welcomed.

Thanks!!!

[HONDERS]

Quote: "" Here's one the dealer didn't even know. If you have DSTC, you need a VADIS update after an alignment. Plus, the steering wheel needs to be actually removed from the column and repositioned! I don't have DSTC, but found this through my own investigation.""

My steering wheel is a couple of "irritating" millimeters out of centre. Can the wheel be centered by repositioning on the column or do I need alignment?

[XC70Geo]

Alignment is easier than removing the steering wheel (and the steering wheel can be set in quantums only).

The steering wheel's center is set when the wheels are properly aligned.

[dtlayman]

Called the dealer (1 hour away) and they do alignments so I am going to take it to them.

We would still like to find out more about how we can qualify an alignment shop closer to us. So if anyone has a few tips we would be thankful.

The other day I called a local tire shop (the one the company I work for uses for company vehicles). I ask if I needed to bring the car alignment specifications and they said that they didn't need them. I ask how they knew the specifications and if they had a service or database that had the information and they said so and so "has been doing this probably longer than you have been living" or something like that.

[XC70Geo]

As I know, the Volvo alignment spec is different for V70, V70XC and XC70. I'd prefer to use Volvo stock spec.

[hrudu]

Hi gibbons,
Can you tell us/me more about the VADIS?
Is that the software that controls the car?
Thank you in advance.
Hrudu

[dtlayman]

I was reading some information that referred to other steering/suspension components that may need to be repaired before you have an alignment. We have a 2001 V70XC. Has anyone had to replace or repair steering/suspension components already that was impacting steering?

[Christopher]

Does anyone happen to know if the alignment specs for a 2004 V70 AWD are the same as the XC70?

[hrudu]

Christopher: Did the dealer fix your vibration problem?
Please let me know.
Thank you

[Edpruss]

OK guys(hopefully ladies are in the kitchen, not wasting time fooling around with cars) I just installed 2"(2.54x2) lift kit, I need to realine the rears in particular since I extended XC90 cast rear arms .600"(15mm) to gain front of rear tire clearance, so, what toe in for the rear should I use?

Thanks,

Ed

[JRL]

Close to stock which IIRC is around a -.12 total rear toe.
Anywhere from there to near 0 will work

[vtl]

Hunter alignment machine has wrong values in database, Volvo specifies total toe-in 0.2 degrees +/- 0.1 in front, 0.2 +/- 0.2 in rear.

http://www.davebarton.com/pdf/RTJ%2019674-2010.pdf