2000 XC Throttle Control Module

[CaptinPanic]

Well, looks like I steped into this one to late. I just purchased a 2000 XC with 65,000 miles and what do you know....the ETS/ETC light has started to burn! I have broken down several times and noticed poor acceleration/idle. I found the SB to clean the module, however I am having a hard time getting to the unit. Does anyone have any information on taking the unit out? Seems that I must disconnect the fuel line and don't see how to do this without messing up something. If I can get the fuel line off, I can take of the air intake manefold and get to the unit...any help getting the fuel line off ( there is a connector that allows the fuel rail to pivot...will this come apart?) or a good way to get to the ETM would be greatly appreciated!
The dealer wants around $1000 to replace and I have called Volvo to see if they have started a recall..to many cars are having the same problem and it looks as though Volvo knew that a "good" cleaning would keep the part working until your warrenty went out!

Also, I have read that the cleaning does and has fixed the problem for good on some 2000's? If anybody knows more about what "specifically" the problem is I would like to know!

Thanks..

[tgrumaj]

For detailed info I highly suggest subscribing to AllData (http://www.alldatadiy.com/) Cost is about 24.95 and the site has all the tech info you need including Throttle Module diagrams, electronics, TSBs on cleaning the module, etc.

The site has been a godsend for me and helped answer a lot of questions that even this site (which is great) can't answer or providing cofirmation of what I learned here. The site has all Tech. Service Bulletins for your car as well as costs for parts and labor estimates. (FYI the TB for my 99 shows as a $551 part.)

Sounds like you know your way around a car better than I do so this site will help point you the way and provides good diagrams of what you are interested in.

I joined the ETS light club about 2 weeks after buying my 99XC (70k miles) but was fortunate that the guy who sold it to me (an independent Volvo only mechanic) cleaned it for free and that took care of the problem In addition I never had any perfromance problems...just the light coming on. So far (and beleive me I'm touching wood as I say this) no problem with the ETS. In addtion I switched to 91+ octane gas (I was using 87) and hope that helps, although some folks on this site are pretty adamant that octane has nothing to do with the gumming up of the throttle body. Good luck and enjoy the car. I really love mine.

[DonWillson]

Go to www.brickboard.com and search for double L and read the item
"All Electronic Throttle Module (ETM) Failures S70 1999".
See if this fits. Any other comments contact me at [email protected].
Double L

[borgelpe]

Problem is related to varnish deposits from turbo oil bearing blowby and/or fuel - easiest way to remove module is to remove cooling fan from radiator. No fuel line disconnects, or manifold removal, etc. Just several electrical connectors. Toughest part is getting a socket on the hose clamp underneath that connects the intake hose to the ECM - it tends to spin once it is loosened.

A good cleaning, once removed, using carb cleaner is all it takes. Problem for me went completely away, performance is back to new.

[TrueBlue]

Thanks for that Borgelpe, looks really useful, we hear of modules being replaced for 600 bucks plus labour - and it bothers me.

It's also great to know that some maintenance can be done by the owner without having to connect to Vadis!!

[AustinPower]

Can someone please elaborate on this? I would like to know what you are talking about. :confused:

"the ETS/ETC light has started to burn! I have broken down several times and noticed poor acceleration/idle. I found the SB to clean the module, however I am having a hard time getting to the unit. "

Thanks

[tgrumaj]

The ETS light is a warning indicator on your dash light cluster that warns of problems in the Electronic Throttle System. The 99+ XCs have electronic throttles vs. the manual "wire" system in older cars. The core of the ETS system is the Throttle Module and this is usally the culprit when the light comes on. The module is either damaged or dirty and fuel is not being fed into the engine as required. (Thus various performance issues - hard starts, stalling, acceleration problems and sometimes...no performance issues at all, just the light comes on.) For CaptinPanic, there were clearly some issues. There is an SB (or TSB) which is a Technical Service Bulletin that Volvo puts out. I got mine off the AllData Web site (a pay site that provides detailed info on servicing your vehicle...kind of an on line Chiltons). The dealers seem to alway say "REPLACE" the module whenever there's a problem..Cost is about 1000-1200 depending on dealer. The part is about 600 and the labor about the same. However, I had the problem and my mechanic simply cleaned the module and it's run fine ever since (about a year ago). Seems others are learning to at least try to clean the module first rather than spend 1200 on replacement. If you replace a dealer must do it. There is software involved and only someone with a VARDIS system can download.

The module is hard to get to. It took my mechanic who has about 30 years experience with Volvos 2 hours to do the cleaning. It's not a job I'd try myself but there are a lot of very savy guys on this board that could do it themselves. The cleaning isnt' the problem. It's getting to the module in the first place and reinstalling it that takes time.

This is a very common problem on first gen XCs 99-00 (as the 98 didn't have the Electronic Throtle) and most here would view it as a defect that Volvo should have repaired as such issuing a recal to replace the modules which all tend to have this issue at some time or another.

Bottom line is try to get it cleaned before you replace. Risk is that it won't work and you'll be out the cost of cleaning PLUS the need to replace at 1200. Hope this helps.

[AustinPower]

Thanks for that great explanation Tgrumaj!

[Bluegrass-XC]

I really hate to think that I'm a future member of this "club" (ETM failures) but I'm thinking it could happen. Recently I've experienced a minor hesitation when starting off from a dead stop. If I really put my foot into it, the turbo will kick in and the hesitation will cease. This phenomenon is not constant and is only intermittent. I haven't had the dash warning light come on yet and I'm hoping it's only a dirty ETM or air filter. I recently relocated to the gulf coast of Florida (panhandle) and I really hope it's just mucked up with sand and / or salt. I don't have all of my tools here yet - how hard is this to remove and clean with just "basic" tools?

[tgrumaj]

Mike I didn't do it myself but if my mechanic at his garage with all his tools and 30+ years of Volvo "under the hood" experience took two hours to remove, clean and replace...it aint easy!! He had the TSB and instructions right in front of him and told me when I picked it up that it was a real pain in the a@@ to do.
Tom

[Bluegrass-XC]

Thanks for the insight tgrumaj. I really didn't want to do it without all of my tools, the comfort of a garage and a backup vehicle (the K5). Besides - the temps dipped into the low 30's this morning and that wind cuts right through you. I really don't want to wait for the inevitable failure either. If there's some way I can prevent it without shelling out a thousand bucks, I'll certainly explore all avenues.

[tgrumaj]

Mike, this (cleaning the ETM) is something a good mechanic can do (or a dealer if your inclined that way) for about 150-200. Worked for me (although I didn't have to pay as it was under warrenty in the first 90 days of my ownership). From reading these boards and others like it I'm convinced that the vast majority of the ETM replacements that dealers are doing aren't necessary and that a good cleaning would fix the majority. The answer from dealers is almost always "replace". It's faster, gives them more revenue, and there's less chance of a follow up problem or that the fix won't work. It's clearly their best answer....just not your best answer (necessarily). The risk you run is that there really is something mechanical wrong with the module and then your out the 200 plus you still need to have a dealer replace it. Bottom like is if it ever comes back on for me I will ask my mechanic to clean the module again (this time I'll have to pay his $80 per hour labor rate....but let's hope he can do it faster this time than two hours!). It still beats 1200! I can do a lot of cleanings for that kind of money. It took the car 5 years to build up to the first cleaning...I'm not going to own it that long to do 5 more cleanings at that pace!!

[Edmonds17]

Our 2000XC died on the freeway shortly after the light came on. If your light is "on," you are on borrowed time. Thereafter, I could only go 30 mph. to limp off the freeway. Drove 30 mph. back to town. Eventually forced to go to a Volvo dealer because nobody else could repair a defective throttle body.

Volvo dealer initially demanded $950. to replace the throttle body. (Car had about 42,000 mi.) When I protested, dealer told me the repair was covered under warranty.

These '99 and newer Volvos have a serious problem. Only repairable at a Volvo dealership (or the rare independent that has paid the necessary fees to VCNA.) Very poor, if not negligent, design. Volvo refuses to acknowledge the problem. Volvo also refuses to tell anyone the names or the locations of the independents that have paid the necessary fees to repair the '99 and newer Volvos. Effectively forces customers to Volvo dealership where costs are exhorbitant.

Volvo has too few dealers to service their cars in the west and elsehwere. If you have one of the '99 and newer XC's and the warranty expires, then I suggest you get unlimited towing coverage from your insurance company. (AAA will only go 100 miles, after which it is $3./mi.) Your XC will still breakdown, but at least you won't have to pay for the long tow back to the dealership.

You should also take a cell phone whenever you travel outside of a major urban area so you can call a tow truck when the throttle module fails with only brief or limited warning. We are leaving our 2000XC in the garage when we take trips outside the major metropolitan area where we live because we don't want to endure a long tow back to the dealership.

Edmonds17

[PlaysWithCars]

I just had my new-to-me 1999 XC evaluated by an independent Volvo master tech. When asked about the potential ETM issue, he showed me where it was located, visible by looking just below the intake manifold and above the radiator. He noted that the sticker was yellow, indicating that it was a replacement part. According to him, the original '99 part came with a white sticker. He had just done the same replacement on his daughter's car last summer, and had noted the sticker color difference. He agreed that the part could usually be saved by a good cleaning, although not always.

FWIW, I posted this in case a prospective owner is looking at a used XC and there are incomplete maintenance records on the car.

Looks like I may have dodged at least one bullet on a used XC!

[Edmonds17]

I emailed Scott Hart at IPD ([email protected]) down in Portland, OR, about the throttle body problem. I suggested that IPD might want to do an article for their newsletter about the throttle body issue. (IPD is a great after-market supply house for all kinds of Volvo parts and enhancements.)

I further suggested that this might be an opportunity for IPD to come up with and sell a solution to the problem, i.e. maybe some fuel additive that would keep the throttle body clean, maybe a diagnostic tool to say when the residue buildup was getting bad enough for VADIS to shut down the engine and strand the owner.

Mr. Hart was aware of the throttle body issue but said, at least as of 1/21/05, that IPD did not have a solution. I encouraged him to keep looking. I suggested there must be a lot of owners of '99 and newer Volvos that would be very interested in buying something to avoid an expensive cleaning and/or replacement of the throttle body.

People reading this posting might send IPD an email indicating an interest in having IPD find a solution to the problem. There email address is: "info@ipdusacom"

Edmonds17

[Michae1]

I'm just wondering. Is this a problem that only the 1st Generation XC suffers, or is it one that affects the current generation too?

Thanks.

[DylanMM]

Along the same lines as many of the questions in this thread, I had one of my own. As a prospective buyer of a 1999 XC, I've been reading all about the throttle problems with this model year. Checking through the service records from the dealer I'm contemplating purchasing from, among other things I see:

Mileage: 78,250
Complaint - Perform used car check
Correction - Safety, LOF, 82500MS, Upper Spring Plates, Frt. Links, Frt. MT, Rear Pads, Lights, Driveshaft, Upgrades, Throttle clean

Sounds like it received a pretty good check-up. i'm just wondering if someone might shed some light on any of those codes. Anything raise any eyebrows? And does the "Throttle clean" mean that the throttle was cleaned, or that it is clean? Either way, the fact that it was checked seems like a good thing. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks!
~Dylan

[Edmonds17]

Tough to decipher what the words "throttle clean" might mean.

If you haven't yet purchased the car, why don't you ask the dealer?

If the dealer says the throttle body has been replaced, look for the appropriate color tag mentioned earlier in this thread.

I suspect the throttle body has not been replaced because it is quite expensive. Dealers charge $950-1,200.

Edmonds17

[XCnownow]

Hi there!
We've had a 2000 V70XC now for about a year. Unfortunately, about a month after we got it, we had the throttle module go. :mad: $1000 later for the TCM repair and another small turbo seal oil leak...off we go. The fortunate part is that we bought the car from a (non-volvo) dealer and were able to secure at least some of the repair costs back.

Now to the question. Are the replacement throttle modules any better, or are they subject to the same design flaw that the originals were? More to the point, since the original one had about 50k on it when it went, should I expect to have the new one go around 100k? If so, how much luck have folks had convincing dealers to repair rather than replace? Is it just a matter of knowing to ask, or will it involve a fight???

<as an aside to that question...if anyone knows and trusts an independent mechanic in or around NE Pennsylvania, North NJ or Hudson Valley NY, I'd really appreciate the info>

Figure I should think about this now, since we're putting about 25k/yr on the car. FWIW: (knock on wood) that's the only major problem we've had so far, and I've been loving the car in the foot+ of snow we've had in NE PA over the last week. By far the best snow vehicle I've ever had...head and shoulders above the Cherokees and Wranglers of my past. :)

Everyone...thanks again. This site has a WEALTH of knowledge!

Jason.

- 2000 Volvo V70XC SE. Silver. 73k
- 2002 Yamaha YZF600R. Blue. 10k
- 2003 VW Jetta GLS TDI. Platinum Grey. 64k

[Edmonds17]

I'm sorry to say that the throttle body defect will probably reoccur. Probably about 50,000 mi. down the road. I know a fellow that has had the problem twice.

What is happening is that the on-board computer (the engine throttle module or "ETM") shuts down the engine whenever the ETM senses residue build-up in the throttle body. Residue build-up appears to be a function of how many miles have been driven. Mine died at 52,400 mi. I've heard of another guy that got 66,000 mi. before the engine died in his garage. No one in his town of 35K could fix the defect so he had to have his car towed 50 miles to a Volvo dealer for repairs. It appears to me that the useful life of a throttle body is about 50,000 mi.

Volvo has a 7 yr/70,000 mi. extended warranty for cars sold in Calif. and Mass. that covers the defect. People in other states are being asked to pay.

I went in on 1/28/05 to the Volvo dealership that sold us our 2000XC. Asked the service rep. about how to avoid being stranded the next time. Service rep. had no solution. He said "It's electronic. They fail." and just shrugged his shoulders! Never did get any guidance on how I could avoid being stranded the next time.

I suggest you get unlimited towing coverage on your automobile insurance and carry a cell phone whenever you leave cities where Volvo dealers are located. I also suggest you get a list of all Volvo dealers in the area where you plan to go. You will then know where to have your Volvo towed and have a way to call your insurance carrier for a tow truck when your engine shuts off the next time.

Edmonds17

[Bluegrass-XC]

I really hate to think that I'm a future member of this "club" (ETM failures) but I'm thinking it could happen. Recently I've experienced a minor hesitation when starting off from a dead stop. If I really put my foot into it, the turbo will kick in and the hesitation will cease. This phenomenon is not constant and is only intermittent. I haven't had the dash warning light come on yet and I'm hoping it's only a dirty ETM or air filter. I recently relocated to the gulf coast of Florida (panhandle) and I really hope it's just mucked up with sand and / or salt. I don't have all of my tools here yet - how hard is this to remove and clean with just "basic" tools?
Well - I'm now an official member of the ETM Failure Club. On my way to the cigar shop this afternoon the ETS light came on and all of a sudden all I could do was 30mph. http://www.v70xc.com/forums/images/smilies/mad.gif I limped into a parking lot and shut down the engine. Two trys later it fired up - with seemingly no ill after affects. I came directly home. First thing in the morning I'm calling the dealer as well as the indipendent here in town. I have no intention of paying for a replacement throttle module. Luckily I do have an extended warranty, so we'll see what happens when I mention that.

In the event that neither mechanic (dealer or indy) will consider cleaning the unit, does anyone know what tools are required for this task? I recently relocated and I don't have all my tools with me yet. I suspect a new set of metric wrenches are in my future.

Note to tgrumaj (Tom) - Thanks a bunch for the TSB. I think my ETM is located closer to the fan belt (passenger side) than that "sketch" indicates.

I've read where you can tell if an ETM has been replaced by the color of the sticker affixed to it. I didn't see where there was much room for a sticker on this unit - unless I was looking at the wrong part. Can anyone enlighten me with a photo? Thanks !!

[PlaysWithCars]

I've read where you can tell if an ETM has been replaced by the color of the sticker affixed to it. I didn't see where there was much room for a sticker on this unit - unless I was looking at the wrong part. Can anyone enlighten me with a photo? Thanks !!

As told to me by my independent Volvo tech, a yellow sticker indicates a replacement part. A white sticker is usually original, or an early replacement part. You should be able to see this sticker by standing at the front of the car, and looking down at an angle between the top of the radiator and the intake plenum. Underneath the intake is a black box, that is the ETM. The sticker should be clearly visible on the front vertical edge of it.

[XCNorway]

Well - I'm now an official member of the ETM Failure Club. On my way to the cigar shop this afternoon the ETS light came on and .....


Now I also is a member of the ETM failure club :( . The ETS lamp and the lamp with en engine symbol lightend up recently. The engine is not running smooth anymore. The power though, seems like normal, but this, I reckon, will not last for long. Visited the Volvo dealer today and the said they had to replace the module. Cost about $1600 (NOK10000). :mad: :mad: :mad:

[tgrumaj]

While any dealer will tell you "replace" there is an option to have the TB cleaned. I had that done after getting the "light" and it's been running fine for 14 months (touch wood and pray it continues!!) It's about a 2-3 hour job so it isn't cheap (about 200-300 US) but that's way less than 1,600!!

There is a TSB out there from Volvo on cleaning the TB. Both BluegrassXC and I have had this done and it fixed the problem. The dealer doesn't want to do it because 1) it might not work or the problem will reoccur and then you'll be mad because you spent 200 and got nothing 2) they don't make nearly as much money!

It's up to you but cleaning the TB is an option that has worked for some of us 1st gen owners.

Good luck.

[dtlayman]

We had throttle body issues on our 2001 and they said we needed to replace. They offered good will since we only had 57,000 miles or so and said we would have to pay 1/3 - $329.

Since we live 1 hour away we went ahead and had 60,000 mile service performed at the dealer. Maybe it was a mistake taking it to the dealer because we walked out with over $1200 worth of service.

After looking at the service guide that the dealer published with the list of service items performed at the 60,000 mile service I noticed that the 5th item down listed "clean and adjust throttle body" so I ask the dealer if I should have gotten a discount on the $499 charge for the 60,000 mile service since they replaced the throttle body. There reply - "Regarding the throttle cleaning that is mentioned in the service menu.
You were not charged for this,cleaning is only done on older models.
We appreciate your bringing this to our attention and intend to change
the wording on subsequent service menus." Something doesn't seem right with this reply.

Also, I just found out that our 2001 is under a recall to replace the cooling fan - Does replacement of the cooling fan make the replacement or cleaning of the throttle body easier or the work under the 60,000 mile service that is done?

[tgrumaj]

Can't really say as I don't know if what they have to do on the 2001 to fix the fan. I can say that if they had to completely remove the cooling fan on my 99 that would make access to the 99XCs ETM easier. (from what I can see). But what needs to be done on the 2001 fan and the location of the 2001 ETM is not something I have a good feel for. Definately sounds fishy given the service message.

I know that if I have the ETS light again I'm just going back to my independent Volvo mechanic and have it cleaned again. When and if that doesn't fix it I'll bite the bullet and have the ETM replaced at the dealer.

[dtlayman]

As I read some other replies I noticed that there seems to be two opinions. One says that cleaning it will probably solve the problem in many of the cases and another that says cleaning is not the issue, but there is actually a mechanical failure. It almost sounds like there are two separate issues that can cause the same or very similar symptoms.

[tgrumaj]

You're most likely right that there could be a complete failure of the ETM vs. simply a "gunking up" that a good cleaning requires. I don't think that the dealers seem to know the difference nor do I. From all the conversation on this board and Brickboard it seems to me that the dealers have a "if the ETS light is on replace the ETM" mentality. It is time consuming and difficult to get to the ETM so once there it's easier to replace the module and it will definately take care of the problem regardless of whether it's a faulty module or one that needs cleaning. What's not clear is if there are different codes or different behaviors or even different "looks" of the ETM that would tell someone if it's a faulty module or just a dirty module. I'd be interested in knowing if anyone has done more detailed research on this and has an educated opinion.

[dtlayman]

Does anyone have a picture of the ETM so I know exactly what I should be looking for when I lift the hood? There has been several descriptions of where it is located but I am still unsure if I am looking in the correct area. Thanks for being patient with this novice.

[dtlayman]

Clearly stated. It would be great to get and educated opinion on this.

[DonWillson]

See my post at http://brickboard.com/AWD/index.htm?id=882356.
I have just finished my third failure analysis on the ETM and have proven to my satisfaction that all of these units will fail somewhere beyond 30,000 to 40,000 miles. My son's was at 44,000 miles. There may be two problems, a dirty throttle body that responds to cleaning but the expensive one can only be fixed by replacement. There is a sensor within the throttle body that gives throttle position feedback to the computer. It is a thick film resistor that wears through the resistance element due to the tip of the wiper rubbing back and forth as the throttle moves. In three of three cases the thick film element was worn completely through. Thus there is no feedback, or erratic feedback, to the ETM computer and it gives up and shuts down. Within the throttle body is a spring loaded mechanical stop that sets the throttle in the 'limp-home' mode.
This week, March 7th, I will be sending a big package of information to Volvo Customer Care. I have a direct contact there. It will include my cover letter, my three failure analysis, over 70 postings from Brickboard, this forum and Sweedspeed. I am requesting a response within 2 weeks. My letter requests a redesign on the module to change to a non contacting sensor, a full recall and a full rebate of all monies spent on this problem. It's worth a try.
If all else fails I have a direct contact within NTHSA. I feel this is a real safety issue.
One posting, whether true or not, said that Volvo was not interested in a redisign on these 'vintage' cars.
Hopefully I will figure out how to post my FAs on my web site for all to see
If we work together we may be able to get some action on this. In the old days, pre Internet, the dealer could just say "gee, we've never seen this before but not any more. I have had responses from Scotland, Maylasia, Austraila and Italy.
Don Willson, Fort Collins, Colorado '85 744, '89 765 ([email protected])

[pico]

[tgrumaj]

Thanks and please keep us posted on this important issue. This truly seems like a component that Volvo should have stepped up and done a recall on and built a better Throttle Module as a replacement. They have truly dropped the ball on this one and it is hurting their reliability rating and reputation thoughtout a community that truly cares for the brand.

[littlewaywelt]

See my post at http://brickboard.com/AWD/index.htm?id=882356.
I have just finished my third failure analysis on the ETM and have proven to my satisfaction that all of these units will fail somewhere beyond 30,000 to 40,000 miles. My son's was at 44,000 miles. There may be two problems, a dirty throttle body that responds to cleaning but the expensive one can only be fixed by replacement. There is a sensor within the throttle body that gives throttle position feedback to the computer. It is a thick film resistor that wears through the resistance element due to the tip of the wiper rubbing back and forth as the throttle moves. In three of three cases the thick film element was worn completely through. Thus there is no feedback, or erratic feedback, to the ETM computer and it gives up and shuts down. Within the throttle body is a spring loaded mechanical stop that sets the throttle in the 'limp-home' mode.
This week, March 7th, I will be sending a big package of information to Volvo Customer Care. I have a direct contact there. It will include my cover letter, my three failure analysis, over 70 postings from Brickboard, this forum and Sweedspeed. I am requesting a response within 2 weeks. My letter requests a redesign on the module to change to a non contacting sensor, a full recall and a full rebate of all monies spent on this problem. It's worth a try.
If all else fails I have a direct contact within NTHSA. I feel this is a real safety issue.
One posting, whether true or not, said that Volvo was not interested in a redisign on these 'vintage' cars.
Hopefully I will figure out how to post my FAs on my web site for all to see
If we work together we may be able to get some action on this. In the old days, pre Internet, the dealer could just say "gee, we've never seen this before but not any more. I have had responses from Scotland, Maylasia, Austraila and Italy.
Don Willson, Fort Collins, Colorado '85 744, '89 765 ([email protected])

[pico]

GOOD LUCK!!!!
Have you considered having an attorney write the letter? Not to be pessimistic, but I can't possibly imagine Volvo doing what you are requesting unless they are forced to do so by the government or the courts.

[Bluegrass-XC]

Don - On behalf of all who have had this problem - Thank you for going above and beyond. http://coloradok5.com/forums/images/smilies/bow.gif I would certainly like to see your documentation and any response you get from Volvo.

Please keep us posted!

[Ed99xc]

Add me to the list. Ours went at approx. 80K . First had them clean the throttle body. This worked for about 6-8 weeks. Then my wife had a catastrophic failure, but was able to limp home.

I then drove it down our rode to see what it was doing- IT COMPLETELY DIED AS I SLOWED TO MAKE A LEFT TURN INTO OUR DRIVEWAY!! Luckily we live on a quiet road. I don't like thinking about what might have happened if I had to cross a busy street. THIS IS A SAFETY ISSUE!!!

Don, Thanks for pursuing this. A couple of questions for you.

1. Can you get the HAST / reliability test data from either Volvo or Marelli? Could they have known about this shortcoming all along?

2. I wish to register a complaint in an effort to get a recall /reimbursement program under way. Could you please list all agencies and or customer service departments which should be contacted.

Regards
Ed

[dtlayman]

Don,

Thanks for your work on this matter. Let us know what we can do.

[DonWillson]

Well, looks like I steped into this one to late. I just purchased a 2000 XC with 65,000 miles and what do you know....the ETS/ETC light has started to burn!
Also, I have read that the cleaning does and has fixed the problem for good on some 2000's? If anybody knows more about what "specifically" the problem is I would like to know!

Thanks..

Tonight, March 8, 2005 I went to a VCOA dinner and took a report and a failed Electronic throttle body and the failed throttle position resistor element. see http://brickboard.com/AWD/index.htm?id=882356. However, there was an independent Volvo garage owner there that gave another viewpoint.
Can any one help confirm this?

He said that he has replaced hundreds and has found black oil in the end caps. Of the three I have done an anaysis they were as clean as can be. The only way oil could get to the end caps and the potentiometers is by blowing by the throttle shaft. The throttle shaft is mounted on sealed ball bearings on each side of the bore. For oil to get by it would have to pass two oil seals on the bearing or go past the id or od of the bearing. Admittedly since this is s turbo engine there is positive pressure in the throttle bore. He also said that it was on engines that were not well maintined and the "nipples" were clogged. I presume this is a part of the blowby from the crankcase being fed into the intake air ducts and eventually getting into the ETM. He always cleans the nipples.

I do not own a 70 or 80 series so I have none to look at.

I have been told that Volvo Engineering knows about the ETM problem but is has not done anything yet. I will be sending a package of information to the asst mgr of Customer Quality Care and she has promised to get back with me.

Don Willson

[Ed99xc]

http://www.autosafety.org/VolvoThrottle.pdf


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
check this out

[Edmonds17]

The sad fact is that Volvo (VCNA) knows all about the throttle body defect, including the potential to strand customers in dangerous places, and has chosen to do very little about it.

VCNA has come out with a "secret" warranty on the throttle body. VCNA has told their dealers to clean the throttle body at Volvo expense IF, AND ONLY IF, the customer complains. If the customer doesn't complain to the dealer, then the customer is stuck with the bill to clean/replace the throttle body.

Amazingly, VCNA hasn't bothered to fix the problem. The dealer just installs another defective part with full knowledge that it will fail 50,000 miles or so down the road.

VCNA is now accused of violating the California Secret Warranty Act. A class action lawsuit against VCNA is currently pending in Sacramento County Circuit Court in Sacramento, CA. This California statute requires mfrs. quietly telling dealers to fix a defect to notify affected customers in California. VCNA didn't and hasn't. It's not against the law to build a defective car. What is against the law in California is not telling your customers about the "secret" warranty.

The sad part about this entire mess is that VCNA is claiming in the lawsuit that throttle bodies are an owner "maintenance" issue. Baloney. I have driven fuel injected cars for hundreds and hundreds of thousands of miles and never been required to "maintain" a throttle body, i.e. our '79 Volvo 245 has gone about 300,000 mi. without any "maintenance" to the throttle body. Similarly, I drove a '84 Chrysler New Yorker 267,000 mi. with no "maintenance" whatsoever to the throttle body. It appears to me that only '99 and newer Volvos need throttle body "maintenance." Other cars by other mfrs. don't need such "maintenance."

VCNA is destroying their hard won credibility trying to defend a defective design and manufacuture rather than fixing the problem to insure customer safety. No one should operate a '99 and newer Volvo outside a major urban area, on rural highways, and during winter or other adverse weather conditions due to the defect.

Carrying a cell phone and other emergency equipment should be mandatory because owners of '99 and newer Volvos will never know when the engine will just up and die.

[DonWillson]

Thanks Forum,
I want to thank the forum administrators for providing a way to attach files. I'll try it with my first FA and see how it works. I have not used Postscript files before, other than read them, but I converted this with a demo version of FinePrint's PDFactory.

I read the class action suit that has been filed and while it may give temporary fix to the diriveability problem the final failure is the throttle position potentiomenters. In the attachment you can see the wear through in the film. When no contact is made to the thick film resistance element, no position signal goes back to the computer, and it cannot solve the problem and shuts down. The limp home mode is a mechanical feature.

I'll see how this looks later and if it is OK I'll upload the longer construction details and failure analysis of Unit 2. I got a tilt due to the size so I'll break it into two sections.





Don Willson

[DonWillson]

Here is the second half
Don Willson

[Bluegrass-XC]

Don - THANK YOU !!! I haven't read the report but I did save it and will read it thoroughly in the A.M.

[Edmonds17]

Don Willson has done a great job looking into the root cause of the throttle body defect. Thank you. You deserve an "Attaboy" award.

I'm certain Volvo Cars North America (VCNA) has done a similar analysis. VCNA has chosen to keep replacing the defective part with more defective parts. This is amazing given Volvo's alleged interest in safety. Volvo knows their cars will strand owners about every 50,000 miles. Volvo has done nothing but agree to install more defective parts only when the customer complains. The defect still exists.

It is extremely dangerous to drive a '99 and newer Volvo on a busy freeway, outside of major urban areas, or during periods of adverse weather conditions. You never know when the engine will just "up and die." You may be put in a life threatening situation that could easily have been prevented.

If Volvo had addressed the defect when they first learned of it, the repair costs would be a lot less than they are now. We are now more than five (5) years down the road. Volvo has built and sold hundreds of thousandss of cars that are now unsafe and need to be recalled. They are also being sued in California in a class action lawsuit for violating the California Secret Warranty Act which will tarnish Volvo's once fine reputation even more in the eyes of the customer. Does anyone remember how long it took Audi to deal with their alleged "acceleration problem?" It almost forced Audi to exit the US market entirely.

This kind of behavior is why we need government regulators and/or the court system to mandate recall and repair of these defective cars.

It is truly sad that a car called the "Cross Country" is unsafe to go cross country.

Edmonds17

[DonWillson]

This FA shows how the ETM is made. You should find it interesting. It verifies that the module is well made except for the throttle position sensors.

[DonWillson]

Here are the last 8 pages, I did not know I could attach more than one file.

I will be sending these to Volvo this week with other files.

Don Willson

[DonWillson]

On this unit I just went to the pot film so only shows the damaged film.

Don Willson

[XC70Geo]

Great job Don! Good luck, and let us be informed.

[DonWillson]

Here are my ideas so far. Oppen the attachment.

[MadeInJapan]

I'm new here. Own a '04 V70 without any of these issues, but was interested in buying a S70 for myself (the V70 is my wife's), and I had inquired over at swedespeed about a '99 that looked very good at my dealer....then I was educated about this ETM problem. I really hope that there is some resolution concerning this issue. I am now searching for a '98 S70 as I want to avoid this issue all together. :eek:

Concerning the '99 S70, I have told the dealer that the only way I would consider buying it is if they warrant and completely pay for the Throttle Body repair "when" it fails...not "if" it fails. So, far, all I got was "...we cleaned it, you shouldn't have any problem and it's not on our routine check for fixing or replacing, so we can't do that...not all '99-'01's have this problem...you'll be okay." :confused: So, buying this otherwise nice car for the dealer is a "no go" at the moment of me. :mad:

On a similar note, as a temporary fix, could the 4 fingers that scrape across the potentialmeter film be bent slightly to contact a different part of the film, ultimately giving a S70 owner another 40-50K miles before a better fix (and hopefully Volvo owning up to this problem) is found, and save him money as well as buy him some time on the "safety" issue? I am speaking for people who are currently having this problem and don't want to shell out the $grand for now. ;)

I really think that an article in USA Today, Motor Week or other publications about this problem and what people like Don here are trying to do about it would be a great boost....How about Consumer Reports? They are known for advocating the consumer and might hear you out. The last page of their publication always have recalls and issues that are unresolved. Seems that this would be a great place for this info...at least it would give first real exposure and from there, I would think that other publications would take it up. I'm sure a "black eye" for Volvo is needed at this point for them to recall and resolve this problem once and for all and for them to regain trust with their customers.

Anyway, Don...good luck. I'm glad I ran into your postings so that I can avoid this problem all together, but believe me, if I had bought the '99 S70 and this had happened to me, I would have sent you my module and I would have definitely joined you in your efforts. :D :D

[Bud]

Please add me to any petition for recall or list of Class action participants.

I own a 1999 C70 HP, and have had all my scheduled maintenance done at the Dealer shop. Through no fault of my own (I was blamed for cheap gas or dirty filters) my C70 died at 66K. The ETS lite was on and it spit 9150 and 9160 codes, the TB "Code of Death".

It is a common occurance and will cost at least $900, then you get MAYBE another 50K, but NO guarantees.

Since this is a known defect and a safety issue, a recall would be in order, especially for a manufacturer who advertises "Legendary Safety". I was told specifically that "legendary" refers to crash tests ONLY, and has nothing to do with going limp on the freeway, or being stranded in a desolate, perhaps winter, situation. So much for "Legendary". Kinda redefines "Safety", doesn't it?

The dealer did admit that a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) was issued for cleaning the TB, but ONLY IF a stickey flapper was detected by the technician. On a fly-by-wire vehicle, this may not be observable ... doesn't mean not possible.

Now I have a vehicle I am afraid to drive any distance, because the towing bill might exceed several thousands of dollars, or it might become a deathtrap on the freeway if it fails.