A few Fit and Finish Questions

[Tom H]

There are two areas of my new 04 XC70 that have me concerned in terms of build quality.

First, as some of you have mentioned in other threads, the window tint on two passenger side windows have a hazy and distorted finish to them when looking from the inside out. It looks as though the tint was applied as a secondary process rather than the normal sputter coating process used during the glass manufacture. Has anyone attempted to get the windows relaplaced under warranty? There have been posts on the topic but I haven't found any mention of a resolution to the problem. Also, does anyone know if this is a MY04 problem only?

Second, The paint color of the outer trim panels around my rear cargo area windows do not match the color of the rest of the car. The mismatch exists on both sides of the car. I noticed this immediately when I took delivey of the car but I also looked at a number of other Ash Gold pictures in the photo gallery and noticed this a common problem. If you look at the transition between the rear of the passengers door and the rear cargo window front edge you will see the color shift. It is pretty obnoxious in certain lighting conditions. On mine, the cargo window trim is a darker color than the rest of the car. When I have an opportunity I will take a picture and add it to this post. I don't know if this exists on all colors or just the Ash Gold. I wonder if Volvo has a solution to this.

Tom H

[phantom]

Tom, I have had our black '04 XC for 30 days and noticed the hazy rear passenger windows as well. I have not been to the dealer yet. I will post a response after the next visit.






Phantom
______________________
'04 XC 70
'99 S70 T5M
'71 Datsun240Z
'73 MGB/GT
'92 Lexus LS 400
'91 Nissan 300ZX

[adamc]

Our 04xc70 also has a milky look to the passenger windows. I wouldn't describe it as hazy, or affecting image quality at all on mine. Just looks a bit more milky than the far back window tint.

Keep us posted on your what the dealer says...

Adam

[hunterxc]

Milky, hazy or whatever you want to call it my windows are as you describe. I thought it was because they were so dark. I haven't had any complaints from the kids in the back seat and it is not really bothering me but it would be interesting to hear what a dealer says about it. Other than that the fit and finish on the XC70 is much better than on my Ford Expedition that was traded for an Acura MDX and better than the MDX that was traded in for this car. However, Acura has Volvo beat on the Navi. system. The Volvo Navi. is a somewhat of a disappointment.

[Tom H]

Any owners of non 2004 XC70 have this condition? I wonder if it is par for the coarse or just a MY04 screwup. Even though I can live with it, it doesn't seem rite for vehicle of this caliber. I have never seen a factory tint job so poorly done on a new car. Almost looks like it was sprayed on. But then....I still love the XC70.

[bluexc70]

Tom,

Could it be caused by the fact that the windows are laminated?
I assume you also have the Touring package?
I'll check my 2004XC after work today to see if I can see the same effect.

[AWD*V70XC]

There are two areas of my new 04 XC70 that have me concerned in terms of build quality.

Second, The paint color of the outer trim panels around my rear cargo area windows do not match the color of the rest of the car. The mismatch exists on both sides of the car. I noticed this immediately when I took delivey of the car but I also looked at a number of other Ash Gold pictures in the photo gallery and noticed this a common problem. If you look at the transition between the rear of the passengers door and the rear cargo window front edge you will see the color shift. It is pretty obnoxious in certain lighting conditions. On mine, the cargo window trim is a darker color than the rest of the car. When I have an opportunity I will take a picture and add it to this post. I don't know if this exists on all colors or just the Ash Gold. I wonder if Volvo has a solution to this.

Tom H

Hey Tom, I don't know what the street lighting is like in Indiana but the lights they use in the UK are just perfect for checking mismatch paint work. We have those god awful orange, light polluting things but if you line your car up with them at night you can see from a mile away the repaint job, there is no way they can match up the original paint, I guess that a lot has to do with the age of the rest of the paint work and the composition of the new mix which will never be the same as the original.

A great tip for UK secondhand owners who want to check for body touch-ups and write-offs on their new car. I can't offer any other source to do the same trick. :(

The other problem with the rear door is the fact that it is not metal but made of a plastic/GRP material and again I guess that the material might absorb more paint due to the manufacture of the door, in different batches etc, you know Monday doors are worse that Friday doors, the old story from the days of Ford Motor Co.

[Tom H]

Tom,

Could it be caused by the fact that the windows are laminated?
I assume you also have the Touring package?
I'll check my 2004XC after work today to see if I can see the same effect.

That could very well be true bluexc. I do have the touring pkg. Honestly, I never understood what they met by laminated windows. Even if this is the case, I don't think they should look as hazy as they do.

[Raynald]

Perhaps it's the reason for you foggy glass. Laminated glass is a multifunctional glazing material. It is manufactured by permanently bonding two or more lites of glass with layers of polyvinyl butyral (PVB) interlayer, under heat and pressure, to create a single construction. It is much more resistant than ordinary glass. Harder for thieves to break in your car or objects to enter the passenger compartiment in an accident. http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Tom H]

Perhaps it's the reason for you foggy glass. Laminated glass is a multifunctional glazing material. It is manufactured by permanently bonding two or more lites of glass with layers of polyvinyl butyral (PVB) interlayer, under heat and pressure, to create a single construction. It is much more resistant than ordinary glass. Harder for thieves to break in your car or objects to enter the passenger compartiment in an accident. http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

Raynald,

If you are correct, and I have no reason to think you aren't, then my next logical question would be to ask if the final result of this laminated process as released by Volvo is considered normal for the process. Is Volvo's any better or worse than another manufacturers? I'm essentially trying to determine if I (we) have defective windows or are we seeing the best that current technology can deliver at this point in time.

[Tom H]

Now to follow up on my second "fit & finish" item at the beginning of this thread, here is a pic of the color shift between the passenger door rear edge and the cargo window trim leading edge. The change is more noticible in brighter lighting conditions but I think this will work to illustrate the point.

http://www.xc70.com/pics/albums/userpics/normal_color1.jpg

My theory is that the trim panels on the cargo window were either outsourced from a subcontractor or were painted at a different point in time. It is clear to me that the paint used in painting the cargo window trim was from a different lot or batch than that of the doors. This will be easy to see in the next shot.




http://www.xc70.com/pics/albums/userpics/color2.jpg


There is a visible differance in the metal particle composition between the two areas. Notice how dense the left side (cargo trim panel) is compared to the door. The change in reflectivity causes the color shift. Under some lighting situations, looking straight at the junction, the colors appear to be identicle. When looking at an angle the color change becomes apparent.

Any thoughts??

[hd70]

My charcoal dashboard has a slightly different color than the door panels (left and right). So much to premium brand.

[Tom H]

I think it's just a sign of the times as they say, however, the color shift on the exterior that I was illustrating is a bit over the edge IMHO. It is ironic because the advancements in today's paint technology allow us to produce much more consistant results than what Volvo has done here. I would say something is seriously lacking in the quality control/assurance system. Does anyone know if Volvo is certified to any of the recognize quality standards such as ISO9000 or QS9000? I don't recall seeing any referance to quality certification in the advertisements.

[birddog]

This site has some information on the painting processes Volvo uses in the factories. Seems they are one of a few (manufacturers) using water-based paints rather than solvent-based ones. Maybe this makes for a harder to keep consistent end product? Anyway, it's an interesting read, here's the site:
http://www2.car.volvo.se/environment/production/solvents.html

[Quietlymknnoise]

It's a good thing you have this site to vent. I don't think the dealership or Volvo will do anything for you.

[Tom H]

birddog,

Honda and Toyota are using waterbased painting also. There are many others falling into line on the environmental issues. Thats a good thing. But another trend in manufacturing is to outsource the painting of subcomponents such as bumpers, mirrors, trim plates, etc. That is why you can for example buy pre-painted trim and or replacement mirrors. The technology has become so good that near perfect matches are being achieved. The days of painting the entire car at one time on the assembly line are gone.
But in this case I think the issue is that somewhere in the process an incorrect formula was used related to the actual proportion of metal particles to base paint. I was fortunate earlier in my career to work in a company that manufactured the metal particles for GM paints. I remember that back in those days GM used a 10:1 ratio of paint to metal particles. The size of the metal flakes (aluminum) were controlled to very tight tolerances. It looks to me like the panels on the cargo window of my XC just have a different ratio than the door paint. It may be 15:1 instead 10:1 for example. Of coarse I'm just speculating based upon having some experience with the process. I thought if nothing else it would be an interesting topic.

Quietlymknnoise,

Your probably rite on this one. Maybe if I made a real fuss about it a Volvo field rep might offer to replace the cargo window trim panels. Even if they did what are the odds of a better match? I would never except a re-paint. I'd rather live with a slight color mismatch than have them cut into the original factory finish.

[gibbons]

Tom H, I have hung around in body shops way too long and seen way too much. Metalflake colors are the hardest to match, and silver is the worst. Ash is pretty close to a silver scenario. That's why I don't buy metalflake cars any more. How's that for fatalistic? I special ordered our truck, silver/gray. The fender was damaged in shipping. As a hard line stance to begin negotiating the cure, I told Ford that I wanted them to paint another fender on the factory paint line and crate it and ship it to me so it would match the rest of the truck. They did it!!! And it matched!!! I doubt that would ever happen again, especially from Sweden.

I know that Ford (and probably others) uses an electrostatic process to paint, where in paint particles are electrically charged, and the body is charged to the opposite. So when the paint flies out the sprayer, it is attracted to the metal panel. This also makes metalflake particles "stand on end" which gives the paint a more 3 dimensional look. They can't do that on plastic panels like around the rear window. To make yourself resolved with the issue, look around at other metalflake color cars. The plastic bumpers never match the metal panels.

If I was you, as long as the doors, quarters, and fenders match, I would let it go. You are the only one that will notice the difference. You won't like it, but it's better than having a body shop try to do it better.

BTW, white is easiest to match and consequently hardest to detect color differences. Both our wagons are white. Not exciting, but safe.

[Tom H]

Gibbons,

I agree with you on this. Getting a better match is not likely. We bought a new Starlite Silver Honda Odyssey in 2001. It had a blotchy paint job from the factory that we didn't notice on delivery (after dark). It looked horrible in the daylight. My dealer and the US customer service center said it was not a defect and the battle began, and went on for the next 9 months. That same dealer who claimed there was nothing wrong with it offered to re-paint the hood. I talked to local paint experts whom all said a re-paint, especially silver, would never match the factory. They also said that over time the re-paint would fade and oxidize at a different rate and the mismatch would be even more obvious. I wrote many letters and made many phone calls, asking to have the van replaced. At one point Honda pretty much told me to go away, the case was closed. Even many of the people on the internet forum were telling me to give it up. I finally got Honda to send a factory rep out to look at the van. We meet at a local dealership and after just 5 minuets of looking at it he said "this paint finish is defective". He explained the process used in the factory and went on to say a re-paint of the hood could never match the factory job because of the electrostatic process and the curing temperatures involved. The bottom line was that after over 9 months of fighting, Honda agree to replaced our van with a new 2002 Odyssey. We paid about $400.00 for the mileage put on the 2001. It was worth the fight in that case.

In this case it is not a hugh deal. Sure, I would be happier if the colors matched but I would never consider a re-paint. I may run the issue by the dealer the next time I'm in there just to see what kind of response I get, but I won't make a big deal about it.