Subi Vrs Xc70

[IDAHDOO]

Howdy,
Ive been lurking here for some time now and just wanted to jump in and say hey you've got a great forum here. Im a BIG outdoor gear guy and have been looking at the xc's for many years. I ALMOST bought one two weeks ago. I hope the adminstration dosen't pull this too fast but I thought it would be good info for all of you to know.
I looked at and drove ALOT of cars ! Heres a quick list
Volvo XC 70, V70, v70R $45K VERY nice but over kill right now.
ACURA MDX $43k nice,kinda big,not very sporty.
HONDA PILOT
DODGE MAGNUM RT (HEMI) fast!handled great! Fit and finish was crap. $34k
ISUZU AXIOM,nice but "trucky" $28K
05 SUBARU OUTBACK XT ( BOXER 4CYL TURBO )
05 SUBARU LL BEAN OUTBACK (BOXER 6 CLY 250HP 219LBS TORQUE )
SUBARU GT WAGON
and a few outhers. I own a GMC Youkon so I wanted something "sporty " for my wife and I to drive.
AND THE WINNER WAS......
......
.......
THE 05 SUBARU OUTBACK XT LIMITED TURBO
This car won hands down. I bought it for $29 and change, stickered at $33,900 where the 04 XC WITH THE $5000 REBATE WOULD HAVE COST ME $5K MORE.
THIS CAR ROCKS ! I COULD'NT BELIVE I WAS COMPARING VOLVO WITH A SUBARU ! Heres some reasons why.
XC, motor at idle was rough even felt through the accelerator. Felt even rougher during accelerating. Subi,cant even tell its running.
ride..the xc was rough almost "trucky" I felt like I could'nt drive it very hard.The Subi's ride was considerably better. Did I just say that ?
The Subi rails like the roller coaster at six flags! Just out of Boise theres a little town Called Loman and on the way from there to Id City it climbs about 5k'with about 100 20 mph switchbacks I was taking at 50 with my two kids ASLEEP ! in the back seat and my wife never once told me to slow down. It NEVER felt like I was pushing the car. Awsome.
power Volvo 208/238lbs torque developed at 1500 rpm witch I liked BUT ! Subi is 250/250. with 45/55 distribution witch makes it feel like a rear wheel drive.
Warranty..Volvo 4yrs/50k Subi 3/36 but 5/60 powertrain.
sport shift on both cars BUT the Subi has botton shifters at both 3 and 9 oclock positions ! G force and throttle sensors in "drive" to hold a gear in the cornors. In drive you can use the buttons to down shift and after the compression ceases it returns to drive. What does this mean ? you dont use your brakes much in the mountains. The front air bags sense the seat position,weight of the occupant and the amount of the impact to determine the ammount of force of the air bag. cool huh.. Side and curtian bags standard also. 6 disc in dash. 2 huge sunroofs ! 4 level heated seats.
Both front seats power. I could go on forever But I would have paid the 5k diff to buy the SUBARU. You owe it to yourself and your bank account to go ckeck out the roo ! EVERY ONE I HAVE SHOWED THIS CAR TO AGREED.
shhh ( even xc owners ! )
Happy trails !
cheers

ps. I forgot to mention a few things.
the 05 Roo has been totally redesigned from 04, alittle wider 3" I think., a little taller but Lower center of gravity.
I also thought the steering on the 04 xc was very stiff.It needs the speed asist the 05 have, but its it standard. The Subi has speed AND throttle sensitive steering standard !

[Outrageous]

I'm glad you're happy with your Outback. We test drove one and it reminded me a bit too much of my wife's old '84 Subaru turbo wagon, which I have mixed memories of. I'd go into more detail about my quibbles with the new Outback, but I don't want to rain on your parade (or is it a rally race?)

[leadingedge]

I haven't driven the new Outback, I did sit in a new Legacy at an auto show. All reports are that they are both great cars. The car I sat in had a decent interior, much better than before, but I still think the XC is nicer. To each his own, enjoy the car.

[IDAHDOO]

Outragous,
My wife has had a 97 GT Wagon and a 03 Outback and they were NOTHING like this car. They were both nice cars but the 03 had only168/168lbs of torque which made the car feel heavy,slugish. This car also has pressure sensors in the tires.Led lights built into the mirrors.Clear lenses front and rear
with projector headlights.Dual climate control that uses infra red sensors to sense body heat not air temp. Im so glad my wife chose this car. I would not have been happy driving the xc after driving this. What do you think a 84 Volvo must have been like. Ill bet Subaru sells 100 to 1 over the xc this year.

[deccher]

IDAHDOO,

LOL, I just traded my '03 Suby Outback for an '01 XC70! I definately wanted to drive one of the new turbo Subys, but the wallet would not allow (knew I would have to buy one if I did). I have been a loyal Suby owner ('00 Outback Sport & '03 Outback Wagon), but fell in love with the XC.

Hey, I live in Meridian, and loved taking my OBS on those windy roads to Loman and McCall!

If I buy another Suby (which I will never hesitate to do) I will by from Tom Scott....hate that Larry Miller service dept.

Good luck with your new Suby!

[KnowItAll]

Idahdoo,

At the end of the day...it's still a su-bah-rooo.

I wish you lots of luck and safe driving, but to compare an outback to a new XC is like comparing a Honda to a BMW. :rolleyes:

[gibbons]

We have an XC and a Subie. A Subie ain't no XC, let me tell ya. I do my own maintenance and stuff like that, I know how each is built. For example, I have had the inner door panels off both playing with speakers. Look at the suspension components. Look at the fit and finish under the car. There is an incredible difference, I am surprised that an XC doesn't cost twice as much, because the design and construction is at least twice as good.

Here's a problem we faced when we considered buying another Sube. You dropped $29K for a $33K sticker car. However, you can get a base Subie wagon for $22K, and with incentives, you're looking at a sub-$20K car. Most people won't know the difference between yours and the cheapo. DON'T say it doesn't matter what others think: sure it does!

We love our Subaru, it's just not a Volvo. As the old saying goes, "you get what you pay for." If you had worked the incentives better, for a few thousand more, you could have had a Volvo. I paid $33.8K for a fully loaded XC. The safety factor alone is worth it.

[coastal]

Congrats on the new ride, have any pics to share?

I look forward to seeing the new Outback as it's about as close as you can get to the XC in the "Sport Utility Wagon" segment without making the big jump in price to the allroad.

The decision of whether or not they'll be able meet or exceed the XC's capabilities will have to wait for me, I'll reserve my opinion until I've seen and driven the new model

But that said the photos I've seen do look promising, for Subaru at least. :)

http://fp.images.autos.msn.com/merismus/gallery/c447148a.jpg

http://fp.images.autos.msn.com/merismus/gallery/c447150a.jpg

http://fp.images.autos.msn.com/merismus/gallery/c447153a.jpg

http://fp.images.autos.msn.com/merismus/gallery/c447151a.jpg

http://fp.images.autos.msn.com/merismus/gallery/c447149a.jpg

[birddog]

I should think that most XC owners are more concerned about arriving safely at their destinations and have wisely made conscious decisions to protect themselves from thoughtless thrill seekers carelessly driving whilst trying to see how fast they can go without upsetting their passengers.

There is no comparison between the XC and the Suby other than a financial one. Most importantly there are no comparisons between the benchmarks and innovations in safety between Volvo and any other car company. I would expect a high production car to outsell one that isn't 10:1 in a year as well. And frankly I hope they do, I wouldn't want Volvo to become another car company of that class. The company was founded with a dedication to protecting it's car's occupants and has successfully done so for many years. Persons holding these ideals important don't realistically place prices on them. Frivolous things like secondary sunroofs and in-dash multi changers mean nothing when broadsided by an Expedition.

I can't imagine there is any comparison the quality of materials in these two motorcars....Never-the-less, I do hope you enjoy your Suby, and I too wish you safe driving.

[dlr97]

'05 Outbacks are in short supply in my area, so they would be very close to the price of the '04 XC70 with discounts (our fully equipped '04 XC70 with hitch was $36K US 2 months ago). I like the 2.5 5 cyl. idle and low speed feel better than the Sub. 4 cyl 2.5 models ('04's) I've driven, and the Volvo has better low end torque (at 1500 rpm) compared to the '05 OB turbo, even though the Sub. gets more peak torque higher up.

The major reason we decided against waiting to test the '05 OB is that it is a NEW design. We decided we would not consider it because of teething problems that most new designs have. Our 2000 V70XC gave us excellent service with no mechanical problems (after several years of development by Volvo). My wife's son bought the car and it is going strong.

It would be interesting to see a comparison test done between the '05 XC70 and '05 OB.

Cheers,
Dave

[Too Tall]

I've sat in the new OB and as a tall man can say no thanks. In the OB I was literally scrunching down to look under the windshield. The XC is built with a spacious and luxury interior that fits tall people GREAT and sorry OB guys...the XC way way nicer interior, fit and finish is a class act.

Am I biased? ....and I paid less than you.

[IDAHDOO]

Deccher,
I work in Meridian. Idaho rocks. I brought my raft to work today and were hitting the S.F. of the Payette after work. Off at 5, on the water by 6,float 3 hours through class 3-4's and home in bed by 11p.Lifes good !
Know it all,
I guess you do know it all,no offence. My advice, go drive one. I take it you haven't. I have a friend thats a major BMW enthusiast and he told me some BMW mag reviewed the new subi and LOVED it.
Costal,
Thanks for the pics ! Mine is white with almost a opal pearl ( dominate blue)
in it with graphite bottom, same pearl. I just tinted all windows w/3m 20% sliver in it. ohh it looks good.
You hit it on the head, save your opinion till youve driven one. I did.
do go drive one..
Bird dog,
Thoughtless Thrill seeker ?whatever..you must be ALOT older than I and your synapse's dont fire quite as quick as they used to. Like I said " I NEVER ONCE FELT LIKE I WAS PUSHING THE CAR " Maby you should check Consumer Reports and outhers on "JUST WHO HAS THE BEST CRASH TEST RESULTS" I think your unimformed closed guided mind might have a diff. opinion. Go ahead I dare ya. Imagine that. :p
I know im a gunni pig with this new model but with my past experiences I hope ill be ok. I was also concerned on repair/maintiance costs Subi vrs Volvo. Alot of people get hurt by air bags and the bag deployment system in this car was a big selling point over the xc. Its even off when no ones in the front seat. I was rear ended in my Yukon once by a Ford f150 at 30.The driver got hit by the bag with glasses on and was a bloody racoon.
IMO Volvo has not kept up with the new advancments on some cars with the xc. The XC comes with a Cassette std ? What age group do you think there going after with that. Folks that dont really keep up with new tech..
(my Youkon has one also )
check out this link..and do your own comparrison..
http://www.subiegal.com/images/events/05subaru_legacygt/05subarulegacy.htm

[NeuDaddi]

XC70 comes with both a cassette and a CD player as standard. While most people don't buy cassettes anymore, it is useful to me for two reasons. First, it is an easy way to adapt other audio devices like an iPod or an external CD player to the stereo. Second, it allows me to listen to audiobooks on my commute, something I really like to do.

I didn't look at the new Subaru, but there were some serious differences between the prior model and the XC70 that led my wife and I to purchase an XC70. Comfort in each car was barely comparable. And, while the cubic feet of storage might be similar, I felt that the shape of the trunk area was not as useful in the Subaru.

[IDAHDOO]

I plug my laptop into it so the kids can watch dvd's on trips. My kids love it when I crank up the THX "YEAROOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM" !!
with 2- 12's, 2 -8's,4 -6 1/2's, 4-tweets, and 2 4x10's above the rear doors and 1000 watts of pure exciting entertainment. :D :eek:

[KnowItAll]

Now that you are the PROUD owner of your 05 outback the only thing I have in common with you is we both can purchase IPD products.
If you want to argue about who's car is better I think you would be better suited somewhere else.
Not asking you to leave or anything but you can post till Lance comes over to visit and you will not prove whatever point you are trying to make.
Also come trade in time (or sell on your own ), the market price for your car will be dictated partly by the Base price.
Like it was stated before.....it's a 22k car with alot of options ( CD ) that in the end will not save your life.
Close a door on a volvo then try it on your car.....Sweedish Tank ?Tin Can.

[Art]

IDAHDOO,

My initial reaction after reading your first post was, “Wow, this guy has a lot of moxy!” Then I thought, ‘Hey, he’s really no different than any of us, after all I was just as pumped the day we took delivery of our new XC...still am proud to say that after 3.5 + years of ownership.” I’m happy to hear that you love your new Outback too...seriously! :)

There’s no doubt, in my mind, Subaru has made many refinements to an already solid vehicle. That said, when it came time to shop around for a wagon that met our needs, we didn’t have to look any further than the XC. As avid kayakers, we needed every cubic inch of cargo space available. We knew from the outset that the Outback’s cargo hold was just too tight and likely wouldn’t have accommodated all of our paddling gear. The XC, on the other hand, does it with ease and we find that there’s even ample space to comfortably fit a full size thermal electric cooler that we use for our trip meals. At the time, it also appeared that the roof line of the Outback seemed a bit too narrow to haul around two full width seakayaks, but I’m certain that I'll receive some debate from you on that one. ;) With a few slight modifications, I find that I can also stow a full size 17" wheel in the XC’s spare tire compartment. I guess we can go on comparing which car has what and where, but ultimately it comes down to finding the vehicle that best suits your personal needs and activities. In our case, the XC just happened to be it. FWIW, here are some measurement numbers for the cargo holds based on a 2005 Outback and my own 2001 XC wagon.

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/outback/OB05cargo1a.JPG

2005 Subaru Outback
A: 39" wide lower gate opening
B: 43" wide mid-gate opening
C: 48" wide top of wheel wells
D: 42.25" wide between wheel wells
E: 33.50 " height opening at gate
F: 29-31" interior height
G: 43" length with seat folded up
H: 73" length with seat folded flat
Cargo Volume (Seats up) 32.1 cu.ft.
Cargo Volume (Seats flat) 61.7 cu. ft.

http://www.xc70.com/pics/albums/userpics/normal_05.jpg

2001 Volvo V70XC
A: 47" wide lower gate opening
B: 44.5" wide mid-gate opening
C: 55" wide top of wheel wells
D: 44.5" wide between wheel wells
E: 30.5" height opening at gate
F: 31.5" interior height
G: 42" length with seat folded up
H: 67" length with seat folded flat
Cargo Volume (Seats up) 37.5 cu.ft.
Cargo Volume (Seats flat) 71.5 cu.ft.

A week's worth of paddling gear and food that gets swallowed up by the XC. Note: Not included is a full size Coleman cooler and our own personal luggage.
http://www.xc70.com/pics/albums/userpics/Paddling%20Gear.jpg

Happy Trails to you! :D

[IDAHDOO]

Dont get me wrong here guys, I love the XC also, always have. My wife too.I easily could have went the outher way. I prefer the look of the "R" because I dont like the look of raw plastic fenders/grill. I would have had to have them painted and a roof rack would not do that car justic. The performance of the R was more of what I was looking for but just couldn't justify driving a 45-50k wagon. Id rather drive my Yukon and buy a smaller sports car. Please, just for fun go drive one of the XT LIMITED'S you'll see why I spending so much time here. After driving both cars several times I drove the Roo onto the Volvos lot, my wife got out and into the XC and we left with both cars.We traded off many times. I think we had both cars for about 4 hours. I left the decision up to her. ( I knew witch one I wanted ) Weve wanted an XC for 4 years now. This is not your average woman driver shes a very professional woman.A "gass passer" Or at least thats what I like to call her.haha.Nurse anestitist. (sp?) Raced mountain bikes for 5 years,tele skier,snowboarder,mtn snowmobiler ( handles a 700 mod rotax w/150hp very well) ,runner,xc skater, etc.. shes a very compentent person and a great driver to boot. SHE chose the roo and it was the hardest thing shes done in a while. But she's glad she did it now. I know, I asked myself many times how can I be comparing a Subaru with a Volvo ? Fact is, Volvo is just a little behind. ( did I just say that ? )

[edwa]

With both sides singin, "My dogs better than your dog...", I've been silently watching this thread unravel. Love is blind - Its time to politely thank IDAHOO for sharing his opinion and his joy on his newfound car and show him a link to a Subi forum.

Yeah Brethren, Let us all deeply inhale in that new car scent and glow within its bliss...cause its going to be awhile before the warden lets me ride that train again.

Amen

[birddog]

Declining to debate any longer........please allow me:

http://www.forumsubaru.com

[gibbons]

Aw, don't ruin his fun by showing him the Subaru forum. I've hung out in Subaru forums for a few years to keep up on maintenance and repair stuff for our Subaru. In the XC forum we talk about noisey OEM tires or a misaligned hatch that touches the bumper. Those Subaru guys talk about fried turbos, blown head gaskets, piston slap, and chattering clutches. Big difference in the issues owners seem to be having in the long run!

My wife and I actually stopped and looked at the new Subarus after 8 months of XC ownership. The salesman, who saw our car, said the new Subaru was aimed directly at the XC. I grinned and said, "they missed, didn't they." He grinned too, like "yup, you got me there." They had the full-tilt model and the $22K model both in the showroom. I asked him to describe the $11K difference between the two. No response.

[Litster]

We had an 97 Outback Limited (mine) and now we have a XC70 (wife's). Reading this thread makes me want to go test drive the new Outback. I am sure the new Outback is way different and better than the old one we had. I haven't test driven it, so I can't compare. Outback's 250HP turbocharged engine sure is nice, if you don't have the wimpier, entry-model engine. As far as I know, the two things Subaru doesn't have:

Third-row seats to sit 7 (5 adults and 2 kids at the back)
Straight vertical 5th door

On the last point, Subaru's 5th door is curved (same on the new one based on the pictures posted in this thread), so if you need to transport a long, tall box, you really lose about 5 inches of length. The XC70 has a straight vertical 5th door. So you can actually carry longer, taller items.

[IDAHDOO]

This is where Ill be for awhile. www.xcceleration.com ! :D
I like there moto " Think Porsche not Subaru "
gona be a sleeper !!! SEE YA IN THE REAR VIEW !

[KnowItAll]

Idahdoo

No ....it's more like

You'll be on www.goofball.com and,
See you on the side of the road.......

[IDAHDOO]

Typical response from people like yourself that dont ever get off the couch.
How many hours of tv do you watch. I dont. Except watching Lance spank the worlds best on OLN. Ive raced bikes pro/expert both road and off road for almost 15 years and quite enjoy going fast.
Try one of these sometime.
snakeriverscca.org
You might actually learn how to drive your XC. :D

[Litster]

IDAHDOO, I am not going to say what I really want to say. As before, I just want to pointout facts, not calling people names or make judgments on people I haven't met.

Car and Driver just reviewed the new Subaru Outback Limited 2.5XT. In the comparison chart, in terms of performance, the Outback Limited 2.5XT take 15 more feet to stop from 70mph than the XC70. The Outback Limited's roadholding is at .74 g which is also worse than XC70's roadholding.

Both car have strong points and weak points. There are faster and better wagons out there. There is no point in showing off your new Subaru in a Volvo forum other than ill intentions.

[John@CdnRockies]

Had a Subaru myself (bought new while living in Quebec). While it was a very competent 4 wheel drive, I found it to be short on ride comfort and expensive to maintain. Didn't do any cross-country trail blazing, but it required a steady stream of new parts. Finally sold it as I thought the costs would never end.

While the new ones look nice and have lots of power (ours was a dog), I am happy to have selected a Volvo this time around.

[dlr97]

Try one of these sometime.
snakeriverscca.org
You might actually learn how to drive your XC. :D
IDAHDOO, many of us here feel we have chosen the right car for the job it was intended for. I don't plan to autocross my XC70 on Pirelli STI's, for sure (or probably any other tire suitable for it). Some of us here also have quite a bit of motorsports experience (in my case about 200+ autocrosses, 35 SCCA road races including a National win, and 20+ other track events, including instructing).

Cheers,
Dave

P.S. nice to see that SRRSCCA has such an active program!

[ifnt420]

My wife and I actually stopped and looked at the new Subarus after 8 months of XC ownership. The salesman, who saw our car, said the new Subaru was aimed directly at the XC. I grinned and said, "they missed, didn't they." He grinned too, like "yup, you got me there."
Buahahahaha, that is too funny.:D

[NeuDaddi]

Listen, I think someone needs to just come out and say it. I'm not a moderator or an adminstrator of these boards, but I have posted a fair amount and I feel like I have some ownership in this online community by nature of my participation. IDAHDOO, you are certainly welcome to participate if you want to discuss topics related to the XC70, even if you want to mention your Subaru. But, if not, then take your love of your Subaru to a board that has other people who love Subarus. This board is about Volvo and about Volvo owners. I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly don't care what you think about Subaru and I don't appreciate the tone you have used in your postings. Either participate in a constructive manner or do us all a favor and stop participating.

[KnowItAll]

Hey All,

Sorry......It does'nt take much to get me going sometimes.
Thats the problem with boards, Cowards can say anything they want without fear of reprisal. Why would a logical person come to one board to go on and on about another vehicle?
"See ya in my rear view mirror"?....my 9 year old does not ...ah well whatever.
I come to this board because IMHO Swedespeed if loaded with guys like Idahdoo. This board is they way it's supposed to be.
Poeple who wish to further enjoy and share their experences with thier XC's. Thanks for speaking up NeuDaddi!

[birddog]

.....no need for "sorries"....Hopefully Idahdoo's got the drift that his derogatory comments and revere for the Subaru will prove nothing in a forum of XC Volvophiles, but best taken elsewhere.

[gibbons]

Idahdoo, there are other cyclists around here (just like there are other "real" performance enthusiasts). I did my first road bike race in 1974 and rode a NORBA mountain bike race a couple of years ago. My sons and I have a 100 miler in a couple of weeks.

Anyway, we really love our Subaru. It's primarily the kids' car, but we use it a bunch for family biking and skiing/boarding. We load it with 5 bikes as shown and head for the hills. The Sube taught us how fun and functional an AWD wagon can be. In fact, the Sube made me want a wagon for the wife and me, too, instead of our Infiniti. But I didn't want "me too" car like a billion other Subaru owners in Utah, where the Subaru wagon seems to be the state mascot :)

I myself initially considered the XC to be just an ostentatious Outback. But in a few months of ownership, we discovered something pretty interesting: there is actually quite a difference between the two makes. Subarus work for lots of people, including part of our family's needs, that's why they sell so many. But they simply don't compare to Volvo.

[Ron3KL]

A number of posts above point out that one of the reasons for buying the XC over the Subaru is Volvo's safety....

ANCAP, the Australian partner of the worldwide (US / AUS / JAP / EU ) crash test programme tested the Liberty (Legacy) / Outback recently.

The Liberty/Outback WITHOUT side curtains scored ***** receiving 32.57 out of a possible 37 points.
The Liberty/Outback WITH side curtains also scored ***** receiving 35.52 out of a possible 37 points.

This is the highest score ever awarded by ANCAP for any car it has tested.

Link: http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring/cars/crash_tests/ancap/4wd/2003/03_subaru_outback_sc.shtml

[John@CdnRockies]

Gibbons, could you provide some insight as to what you mean by the two vehicles "do not compare"? Is one better than the other or are you being litteral - two different cars for different uses. Value your judgement in tires (Nokian WR's here we come!) and would appreciate your insight.

I just bought an XC70 and am very pleased with it. Faye is thinking of a Subie Legacy GT (we had one a decade ago) in another couple of years given its performance pedigree. Anything you can shed on the topic will be seriously mulled over by this enthusiast.:)

All the best.

John

[gibbons]

John, Yeah, we use the two cars for different things because I like to keep the XC nice :) Actually, it would be nice to put the bikes on the XC to have a little more power. With the 5 bikes on the Sube, the top speed is 70mph. Obviously the new Subes have more power...

Back to differences between the cars, they are everywhere. Let's look at an obvious one, the doors. The Volvo doors are simply elegant in design and manufacture. Look at that one piece construction, including an integrated frame that wraps up and over the window. That translates into solid. The Subaru's window extends from the door, and rests on a weather strip on the car body. There is no solid support for it. Over time, the windows become loose and don't fit the body weather strip tight any more. So when a truck passes on a two lane, gust makes the windows flap and rattle. And when washing the car, the water comes in around the window edges where they don't fit tight anymore.

The boxer engine configuration engine has virtues, but more liabilities, in my opinion. They are noisey and sound like old VW bugs. The timing belt is about 7 feet long. Uniform lubrication is apparently an issue, based on widespread complaints of piston slap, etc. But they use Subaru motors in airplanes, so I guess if you can live with the rowdiness, you are good to go. I really like the Ford PowerStroke diesel truck engine, but I would never want one in a car.

Based on the Sube, when we bought the XC, I just thought, "oh well, we are just going to have to live with AWD noise." However, the XC is much quieter than the Infiniti was, I can hear no noise from all that stuff twirling around in back.

Subarus are cheaper to make, and cheaper to sell. Everyone has to make that value judgement.

[budrichard]

If you parka Subi next to an XC, you will see the difference immediately. If you are not a midget, you will notice the difference immediately when you sit inside. If you are a sportsman and hunt, fish, kayak liike I do, you will find the drive to where you want to go easier, safer and more reliable. You will also be able to carry more insde and outside. If you are concerned about safety, then $5K won't make a diiference.
My hunting buddy's wife purchased a Subi, he is about 6' 2" and a big guy. He loves to go hunting with me and we NEVER take the Subi!
Good luck with your purchase but when you have a serious accident, think about what could have been.-Dick

[jthorsen]

Yes, the Subaru received good scores on the Australian test, as one would hope any newly designed car would do. However, the new 05 Legacy tested by the IIHS performed MISERABLY on the side impact test. It FAILED the first test due to an improperly folded side airbag. The second test (after fixing the airbag) only produced a MARGINAL rating (second worst). It's significant to note that the IIHS test is much more demanding than the Australian test. (The Australian test uses a much smaller, lighter barrier and larger dummies.)

http://www.iihs.org/news_releases/2004/pr072504.htm
Here's an excerpt:
Subaru recalls Legacy after side impact test: The Institute conducted two side impact crash tests of the Legacy. In the first test, the standard side curtain airbag deployed improperly, so the driver dummy's head was hit by the intruding barrier. Subaru found that the side airbags weren't folded correctly at the factory where they were produced. Subaru corrected the problem and recalled Legacy models manufactured earlier. When the Institute tested another Legacy with the modified airbags, the driver side curtain inflated properly.

"The heads of the front and rear dummies were protected by the airbag," Lund says, "but other measures taken from the driver dummy indicated the likelihood of rib fractures and internal organ injuries plus the possibility of pelvic fractures. These kept the Legacy from earning a higher than marginal rating."

I should note, however, that the '05 Outback itself has not been tested yet, so even though the structural build is the same as the Legacy it could perform differently due to the increased ground clearance.

However, here are a couple more strikes against the Subie in the safety department:
Poor braking -- someone else already mentioned this, but several reviews have put the braking performance in the Hummer, Pathfinder Armada territory.
Lack of any type of stability control system except for the VDC model. We like to complain that Volvo doesn't make DSTC standard on the XC70, but at least they even offer it! The only way to get any type of stability control on the Outback is to buy the VDC model. And at least the XC70 does get traction control standard...

IMO, Subaru stuck a big engine in the 05 model to try to improve it's image, they just forgot about everything else.

By the way I have driven the new Legacy GT auto and was unimpressed. Turbo lag is a real issue with this motor and I found the auto transmission to be below average. I imagine the 5 speed would be better but they didn't have any in stock. The handling was nice and once you get the engine in the sweet spot, it's got nice performance, but overall it's just not in Volvo's class.

-Jon



A number of posts above point out that one of the reasons for buying the XC over the Subaru is Volvo's safety....

ANCAP, the Australian partner of the worldwide (US / AUS / JAP / EU ) crash test programme tested the Liberty (Legacy) / Outback recently.

The Liberty/Outback WITHOUT side curtains scored ***** receiving 32.57 out of a possible 37 points.
The Liberty/Outback WITH side curtains also scored ***** receiving 35.52 out of a possible 37 points.

This is the highest score ever awarded by ANCAP for any car it has tested.

Link: http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring/cars/crash_tests/ancap/4wd/2003/03_subaru_outback_sc.shtml

[leadingedge]

This almost isn't relevant, but I'll add that the brakes were weak on our 2001 Subaru Forester. Maybe it's a common Subaru theme? The much heavier XC70 stops much better. I liked our Forester for what it was, but I wouldn't mistake it for the XC70.

[gibbons]

Before we bought the XC, I did a lot of research and asked a lot of questions to make sure I knew what we were getting into. So I asked my brother, a certified collision technician (auto body guy with 30 years experience) what he thinks of Volvo. His response? "I HATE THEM!" Whoa, the first negative thing I heard.

I asked why, and he said that they are built so well that they are monsters to work on and can never be completed for what the insurance standards will pay. He said the welding is significantly more thorough, so they are much harder to take apart. He said the extra, extra seam sealants and sound deadening are a mess if you have to cut them. He said nothing is built better.

I haven't asked him to compare Volvo to Subaru, but I am pretty sure what he would say.

[John@CdnRockies]

Thanks for the updates guys. I will print and show to Faye - giving us something to discuss while on vacation (can hear her groanng already!).

Must admit that the Volvo has impressed when compared to the (comparatively decade older) Subie.

While giving credit for a decade's advances, the initial delivery quality, towing capacity, ride, comfort. etc. was way beyond our Legacy. We've being towing our 26 foot trailerable sailboat and invariably strangers come up saying "you're towing that with a car?". I haven't seen any Subarus do that - particularly in the Rocky Mountains.

[Too Tall]

Y'all are such gentlemen. Reminds me to always play by sandbox rules. Well done. I could learn a thing or two. What got me fired up was my best friend bought the new Roo and came zipping over to my house extolling virtues and insisting I drive it. Oy Ve. Afterall he is my best friend...had to be nice. His previous car was a very modified Roo that was too fast and rode like a brick...his new car reminded me of that.

[CraigR]

I actually own a 2004 Outback and am selling it to go back to Volvo, specifically the XC70 (2005 on order).

I test drove the Subaru 2005 models and they are much nicer than the older versions. If I was buying a Subaru Outback today I would not look at the older model years, I'd just go ahead and buy the 2005. That's how much better the new '05 year is over the older cars.

I liked the Subaru intially for the AWD and ground clearance, but the seats are terrible compared to Volvo (this is my actual reason for selling the car if you can believe it). They supposedly fixed this in 2005, but I still didn't like the new seats. The Subaru has a much more cramped feel to the interior and the controls are awkward and feel low-grade. The handling on the car is sloppy compared to the XC70 when doing fast maneuvers and the braking is very soft compared to the Volvo. The 2005 fixed the handling somewhat, but the soft braking is still there and I still think the handling isn't near as good as the Volvo. Lastly, while the car did OK in crash tests, I have found little quality problems that concern me about how well the safety systems will work when needed (a problem I never have in a Volvo).

So while it is an OK car for the price, it certainly isn't a Volvo. That's why I'm going back.

[ifnt420]

Yes, the XC seats are great!
John@CdnRockies also mentioned in another thread stating how great the XC70 seats are, hence he wants to get a set to retrofit on his Nissan Maxima. :)

I actually prefer the seats in the S60R/V70R over the XC, it has a more snug feeling when taking corners. Whereas the XC seats are a little bit too wide, making you slide around when cornering. :D (oops, I just exposed my agressive driving style)

[rkestner]

in the summer of 2002 we were in the market for a car with awd/4wd because of where we live. the car had to have good road manners because we drive long distances at high speed here in new mexico, only to arrive at a destination that is punctuated by steep, gravel roads, covered by snow in the winter. we looked at a wide variety of vehicles, including american, japanese, and european cars and suvs. we narrowed down to the subaru eddie bauer version and the xc. when we found out we could get two tickets to sweden along with a really sweet fixed price on a car especially built for us, there was no choice. one feature that immediately differentiates between the two cars - THOSE SEATS! when you drive 50 miles to go grocery shopping, it really makes a difference. there are other features that make the difference important to us, but they are numerous and lots involve personal judgement. we have owned subarus, but this is our first volvo. after two years of driving this puppy, we remain convinced it its the finest automobile on the road, regardless of price. we know we are in good company. the wife of the owner of the dealership in el paso, tx can drive anything she wants from the volvo, lexus, vw and mercedes line, and she gets a new car whenever she wants. invariably she is seen in a cross country over even an s500!

in the end, you have to be happy with YOUR car. we are glad you are happy with the subaru. we continue to be happy with our volvo. we are now volvo people and will probably always own one, starting in 2002.

good luck with your car, drive safely, keep the rubber side down.

[Psychwarlord]

While I didn't drive a 2005 Subaru, I examined the interior of one to determine size and passenger comfort. I have looked at earlier Subarus and there just isn't enough room inside for my family.

Again, I was disappointed to see the 2005 was too small for me (I'm 6'2"), and the rear seat was really small. I wanted to like this car, and if it was just me I could see having one, but the XC really has the interior room (and tank-like safety) I needed. Even the Allroad didn't have the interior room. The VW Passat wagon (one of which we have) is the value leader here, I think, but my wife wanted AWD, factory tint, shades and Volvo seats and safety.

Blessings upon you and your Subie - I like them too!

[chuckyg]

I have a 2002 subi which I love and which I have put over 61,000 miles.
I just recently bought an 04XC70 for my wife.
As much as I don't want to admit it, I like the volvo more.
Next year, we will be a Volvo family.

[newv70xcmom]

Lets here why you like the xc more

[Raynald]

I just realized that my Volvo dealer... is also the Subaru dealer in my neck of the woods. :p

When I leave the XC at the dealer for service, I use the shuttle and get a free ride in a 2004 Outback. Wonder why they don't use a Volvo as a shuttle car? Maybe they use it for Subie owners! :D

As a passenger though, the Outback seems to be well built (no rattles nor excessive suspension noise), nice all around view and nice interior. On the other hand, the ride is much stiffer than the XC and the inside feels crampier. But what disturbed me the most, is the feeling of sitting very low. I'm not very tall (5'7") and I felt uncomfortable.

Anyway... I had a '72 Beetle and loved it, a '88 Pointiac, hated it, '92 Honda Accord, loved it, '98 Toyota Camry, loved it but hated the service...

Such is life. People change, so does their wallet size !:)

[chuckyg]

why?????because....
1. The overall size of the car.
2. Drives with a much more solid feel than the subi
3. Seats are way more comfortable. I do not have to use the small pillow behind my lower back as I do in the subi.
4. the new car smell :)
5. although I have not tested it, nor do I want to, the car heavier and bigger and safety ratings are very high.
6. sitting in the subi feels very small now.
is that enough? xcmom?

[newv70xcmom]

yes all excellent