K&N Air Filter (BEWARE)

[Mr. P]

Edit (see major addl info in posts that follows).
My reason for posting this information is to bust the myth of "additional performance" with those expensive aftermarket filters, which incidentely, admit more dirt into your motor. Pass it on, because there seems to be a poor mis-informed person every minute buying this stuff.

(see links below for full air flow testing by independent engineers, don't just take my word for it)

Mr. P








------------------------original post-------------------------
I've championed the cause "against" K&N air filters due to the fact that I bought two of them only to find they get such bad press. I also hate to see good machinery compromised by a well funded marketing program.

Now that I have received a "threatening letter" regarding my "opinion" about K&N filters, I plan to crusade this cause on a regular basis, in order to help fellow auto enthusiasts make the choice that's best for them.

Checking with sources I consider reliable and beyond the tainted impact of "selling" the K&N product for profit, I find they too, don't think much about the K&N filter.

I offer this info below as "interesting reading". In the event K&N is so good, perhaps they should contact Dave Mann, the author of this article.

Sincerely, P


http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/k&nbitesthedust.htm

[Mr. P]

The K&N debate has gone on and on, with those who own them sometimes getting downright indignant against those who suggest they admit more dirt and essentially do nothing for performance.

I submit this info to counter the big money tests K&N has all over the internet, as a part of their marketing program, and I do so in the interest of fairness and accuracy.

I think this pretty well backs up the claims from experts, that they do “little to nothing” in the way of performance, and they “DO” admit more dirt, even when tested with new oiled surface. What you have to watch out for, is the fact that oiled foam gets less effective as it gets dirty, and paper gets more effective.

I can give you lots of council on this, from personal and other experience, but it looks like it’s my “personal opinion”, so I suggest you read the attached tests, make up your own mind before you put that non-spec filter on an expensive car.

If you can read and understand a tech paper, there should be no argument after looking at these links.



Mr. P

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest2.htm

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/napa1.jpg
Look at the K&N, guess what? It's the one with the most dirt because it's the darkest. Now look at the pressure drop tests, hardly anything that makes a differnce. Technically, they may be able to claim .0001 horsepower gain on a dyno, but everyone who has ever used a dyno knows that you can put an electric fan in front of the motor and even the cooling effect on the bare block will allow the motor to produce more power.



Your money, your car, your decision.

Mr. P

[Mr. P]

And now, some more information: Why? Because I want to kill the myth that K&N filters increase performance and filter well, because they don't.




http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=15&t=000117


The following comments are from Anthony S, who did the actual testing program:



“Well I'll make a few comments.

1) I'll submit to you that surface area of the filtration material is not nearly as important as the total volume of the filtration media. Certain filters like the Mazda OEM would measure poorly in surface area, but have a significant volume compared to the others.

2) No test is perfect, and there are plans for future testing that will address some areas that will be easy to improve. These areas are already mentioned on the page. If you take them out of context and chop only one sentence out stating the test isn't perfect, then you are really reaching to say it is invalid. Believe what you like, but only real data proving the contrary will ever sway my findings.

3) There was a repeatability test performed on one of the filters to determine the relavancy of the filtration test. The results were the same for the repeat test. The repeat test was done on the Baldwin filter. This is mentioned in the test.

4) The deposits left by the K&N and Amsoil filters are not oil residue. I put a few drops of K&N oil on a test filter. It stays nice and red, and doesn't blacken even after sitting for 6 months on my shelf. The deposits on the non oiled filters are identical to the ones on the oil filters, only there is less deposit density on some compared to the others.

And yes, I am not inclined to take manufacturers words on anything, especially when it comes to the automotive aftermarket. Do you really believe Castrol's oil is synthetic? They say it is. That is just one example. Manufacturers are far to concerned with the bottom line profitability and care very little for the customer.

The list of aftermarket automotive suppliers that are no longer allowed to advertise due to FTC sanctions grows every year. Slick50 and Splitfire plugs come to mind. They claimed all sorts of wonderful stuff. People still purchase engine additives containing teflon too, only under a different name. 3M the manufacturer of Teflon says that it should never be used in an internal combustion engine. Of course, 3M isn't trying to sell me something for my car either.

5) As for the miraculous secondary filter. There is no such thing. Any secondary filter would've trapped particles passing through the first filter. I think next time I'll go with a Mazda OEM as they are white and not the orangish tint of the Fram. If you study systems engineering, statistic or redundancy, you'll find that putting filters in series always increases the overall filtration ability. If you have two filters that are 95% efficient and put them in series, you end up with a filter that is 99.75% efficient.”










.............and after all of this, there will still be the 25-year old "expert" who claims he saw a dyno test somewhere that proves the K&N filter will produce more power in "some" engines.

It's your car, your money, and your choice.

Regards to all,

Mr. P

[CadeUCSB]

Yea, im the "expert", not sure what my age has to do with anything unless your jealous im half ur age in the same car ;).

Simply a tested KN user with a dyno plot to prove gains... simple, case closed...good luck with your crusade! :rolleyes: I have personal proof (my friends dyno chart, that I attended the test)... all you have is other peoples sites (all of which looked designed by a 3rd grader)...

I have proof, you have other peoples rants.... man tough call which is more conclusive...

sorry to crosspost, but here is my side of the argument complete with actual personal tested data http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=23711&page=1

[XCuse me]

The issue with the aftermarket air filters is pretty cut and dried.

I for one appreciate the information Mr. P has provided. Everyone has their own choice on this matter, and they can act on their own preference (and pay the consequences one way or another).

I have seen too many well written and well documented posts on this subject matter, by people who have nothing to gain (such as profit from selling these filters) to have "any" desire to waste my money on a K&N type filter and allow my motor to draw in more dirt. Talk about a "no brainer". "A fool and his money are soon parted".

XCuuuuuse Meeeee

[XCuse me]

I have something to report on this issue. Due to this thread, a friend and I, decided to test his K&N filter (on his 1998 Honda) with the "dab of grease" behind the filter element.
The results are on the grease (dust). We were quite astounded to see the dirt on the grease after one week.

Now we're going to do the same thing with a stock (Honda-specified) air filter to see if the air is really that much cleaner. One wonders what kind of a toll the extra dust will really make. On a hundred-thousand-mile engine, how much better would it be if it had cleaner air, knowing the dirt also gets into the oil when it gets by the rings.

XCuse me

[Mr. P]

I recommend others do this same test, especially those who don't seem to be able to take advice from ex NASA engineering types, racers, collectors, and enthusiasts like me who have no personal gain one way or another on this issue, other than "the truth".

Mr. P