View Full Version : Scam Alert - Off-Lease Cars and Auction Items

06-14-2004, 08:20 PM
Message deleted by ChicagoXC at the request of Timal Auto.

06-29-2004, 06:03 PM
I am not sure I see the issue here. The dealer has a car which they own. The fact that they purchased it as an off lease vcna car is irrelevant. The dealer sells the remotes to someone who sells them on ebay. They sell you the car without the remotes. They advise you that the car may not come with remotes. They gave you a credit.

How is anything illegeal going on unless someone is stealing the remotes, in which case it's a matter of the dealership being wronged. There is perhaps something unethical, but that's a judgement call.

This issue is common to buying Volvo remotes and there are many ebayers who do it. Unless one orders them in the packagaging with the serial numbers on the package they can't be re-programmed for use in you car.

I don't mean to sound preachy, but it's a buyer beware world. When someone sellsa set of remotes on ebay for $50 that the dealer charges $150 for, there are bound to be problems.

06-29-2004, 10:51 PM
This message also deleted by ChicagoXC.

07-05-2004, 01:38 PM
This isn't a scam and nothing illegal or unethical l has been done. I appreciate the hassle that you've gone through, but the dealer and the auction house have the right to remove parts from any car and resell them seperately. Why should VCNA care about that? There's no legal reason to involve the AG or even the better biz bureau unless the dealer misrepresented the car. In the end they didn't. If the parts left the dealership or auction house without their knowledge, that's their problem. :( The only potential issue, which is unlikely at best is if the auction house were getting a kickback from the dealer on new remote orders.
I do appreciate that you're making us all the wiser of another issue when purchasing a car.

On a slightly different subject here's an interesting article about keyless remotes from today's Washington Post:

02-03-2005, 09:37 PM
I was recently made aware of the above posting by ChicagoXC and have found his accusations quite interesting. As the owner of TIMAL since 1981 I find it interesting that someone in Chicago who has never met me nor any of my other team members would have the nerve to accuse us of stealing remotes, books and etc from cars at a local auction. As a matter of fact, Manheim Auction employees do remove all the books, keys and etc from all Volvo vehicles and many other off lease vehicles when they arrive on the premises. This is done to avoid their theft as they are processed throughout their system. To put this in perspective, Manheim Auction will process about 7500 cars per month. Each vehicles items are put into sealed envelopes, numbered, categorized and stored for pick up by the dealer that purchases that actual car at a later date. If the buying dealer does not take the time to pick up these envelopes containing these items on the day of the sale, they go back into storage for an additional 6 months. At any time during that 6 months, they are available to the purchasing dealer and sent at their request. If they are not collected in the 6 month time frame, we are contacted and we remove them from their warehouse and dispose of them through a number of avenues. You can imagine the number of books they accumulate in any given period of time, so disposing of them is a major issue. We only offer remotes that, according to manufacturers, are programmable. If anyone has received a remote from us that is not programmable, we will happily refund their purchase price if notified. So their you have it... the truth in black and white. Now I know why so many people despise threads, they are often one persons thoughts typed out in what would appear to be fact, but in reality is nothing more than bull! If you should have any other questions (ChicagoXC) regarding any of my business practices please feel free to personally contact me at the toll free number below. I would be happy to respond to any other accusations directly. Tim Hamilton owner of Timal Automotive, 888 240-4186

02-05-2005, 04:06 PM
KUALA LUMPUR: A business development manager was conned of RM700 by a charming, well-mannered stranger last Tuesday.

Hazel Fernandez had put up an advertisement in a newspaper to sell her Volvo about a week ago.

On Tuesday, she received a call from a man who inquired about the advertisement.

“He identified himself as Selva Nair and asked if we could meet up at a hotel in Bukit Bintang as it was near where he works,” she said.

“He said he owned a Volvo but it was in a workshop after an accident and needed another car in the mean time. He said once the car is out, he would give the new car to his wife and was even willing to pay me cash,” she added.

That afternoon, Hazel and a male friend met the man who is in his early 50’s and about 5ft 6in tall. He had short wavy hair and a fair complexion.

He was wearing a long sleeve shirt and pants and had expensive glasses and a gold watch on him.

“We introduced ourselves to him and we agreed to go to Jalan Eaton to test drive the car,” she said.

Once they reached the place, Hazel offered the man to take the car for a spin while she and her friend sat inside. However, the man refused.

“He said he liked the car and said he would pay for it immediately provided the paper work could be sorted out the same day as he was going outstation,” she said.

Hazel then called the finance company and made the necessary arrangements while the three of them were having lunch.

“During lunch he spoke about himself and his family. He said he was an engineer of a petroleum company and that his wife was a dean in a local university. His children were studying overseas. He even spoke about his medical condition. He had somewhat gained our trust,” she said.

The man then requested to be driven back to his office where he could take the necessary documents before going to the bank.

While Hazel and her friend waited in the car, the man went into the Sogo shopping complex where the bank was situated.

“He came back minutes later saying he had to go back to the office as he was short of cash to pay for the car. He also asked if I could spare him the money so that we did not have to drive back since the bank was closing soon,” said Hazel.

Without thinking twice, Hazel took out all the cash she had in her wallet - a total of RM700 and handed it over to the man.

“Twenty minutes passed, but the man didn’t return. It then dawned upon me that I had been robbed!” she said.

She then ran up to the bank, looking for the man but he was nowhere to be seen.

“I asked to speak to the manager and was told that I was not the first person who has come in looking for this man. I was informed that the man has been doing this for more than three years. He tells people that he is going to the bank but he takes the money and bolts ,” she said.

Hazel has lodged a police report at the Dang Wangi police station and has given a statement to the Kuala Lumpur police’s Commercial Crime Division.

“The chief inspector in charge of my case told me that the man had been charged before and was released on bail. Is this all the police can do? Why can’t they release a photofit of the man in the newspapers to warn the public?” she asked.

When The Malay Mail contacted the Commercial Crime Investigations Department chief Superintendent Shariff Mohd Abdul Wahid, he refused to comment.

Credit - http://www.mmail.com.my/ (http://www.mmail.com.my/)

02-05-2005, 05:40 PM
I think this type of 'scam' as described by ChicagoXC should not go unnoticed, and as everyone is now aware of what happens, they should be very careful about you they do trade with. As for it having anything to do with Volvo, I think is stretching it a bit far, this guy 'Tim Hamilton' does not appear to be doing anything wrong but maybe a little unethical to you and me but it is a free World, you get what you pay for, what's the Latin expression I am looking for? ..... there it is.. I can hear you saying now, so be warned.

As for Tim Hamilton replying, well what can you say? The bare faced cheek of the man trying to defend what his company does?????? Well, let me tell you what sort of bloke 'Tim Hamilton' is (and I have never met the man), to me he sounds like a very respectable car salesman, who enjoys selling cars, not fighting. I have read his post several times and not once do I detect an angry tone in his voice, not once did he threaten to sue ChicagoXC or the web site for defamation of character or company. He came across as a very calm person who cares about his customers, (he has even given his phone number to all if they want to contact him) after all he said himself
As the owner of TIMAL .....Manheim Auction will process about 75,000 cars per month that's about 900,000 cars a year, that is some going. I can also see his point about removing certain items when the cars enter his premises which on the volumes he is talking about is a lot of envelopes to store. I think he could look at other ways of leaving the 'removed items' securely in the cars (heat sealing bags for example) so that he does not have the headache of returning the parts later and this would cut down on his storage problems but, he cannot be responsible for the trust of every employee that he has and as this was brought to his attention he might have never been aware of what was going on.

I think it is great that someone has brought to our attention that something might be a miss here but it is also very encouraging to get a reply from the other side as well, I think if I was living in the area of Tim's auction house I would pay him a visit to see if he had any cars that interested me and would quite happily hand some money over to him, knowing he would sort out any little quirky problems I had afterwards.

Tim, you sound like a gentleman, and I applaud you for your honest and controlled reply and maybe now that you know we are here you might like to gives us a heads-up sometime if you ever have a Volvo Cross Country for sale, as you see from both our members list and that of our viewing figures we get an awful lot of interest from people looking for information on new and used XC models.

What an interesting topic this has been and I can only see the work Tim does as benefiting from his frank and honest reply, hope you don't disappear for too long with news of other great cars you might have, only shame is that I live so far away from your establishment otherwise I would have paid you a visit (in the nicest possible terms), keep up your good work.

ChicagoXC, I think you have made your (valid) point and Tim's response answers your question/point, only time will tell if any wrong doings like you described will carry on in future, but you are always going to find people who will try and sell useless things to needy people on the likes of e-bay only to have them slated later for selling faulty/dodgy products. Maybe Tim will sort this kind of outlet from getting hold of his outdated/left behind items and who knows he could even advertise them in our classified section and get a few bucks back for his time and effort. http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=13

03-25-2005, 09:37 PM
Response deleted by Timal.