Excessive griping

[Prepo]

All the Volvo boards seem to have phases of trashing Volvos and nit picking to the extent that we start to imagine problems we have never noticed before.  This forum seemed to be an exception but, once again, we are going the same route, IMHO.  Personally, I prefer the more constructive views and experiences and I hope that we return to that attitiude, and leave the fault phobia to other boards. Am I exceptional in thinking this?

[cbob]

I'm with you, Prepo.   http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Starting to sound like alt.autos.volvo around here lately.

Of course it may be that we just haven't had all those picky problems..YET!   http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif

Keep our fingers crossed.


Michael    http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[coastal]

Thanks for posting this Prepo http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif

I've been watching this forum since it's inception (hmm, wonder why http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif) and have also noted this gradual shift from an overly positive tone to something well, less than overly positive. Not at all meaning to say that the forums have turned less enthusiastic or less friendly but like Prepo mentions, we don't seem to be talking as much about the good stuff these days.

Perhaps that's a symptom of this website's growth? If so, I hope there's some way to keep focused on not only the enthusiasm we have for the Cross Country, but also providing each other with quality solutions to our questions and problems.

To add, Volvo's not a traditional enthusiast's brand, one whose owners are continually modifying with performance or aesthetic components. That's probably doubly true of the Cross Country since there is no XC70 T5!

Hence, we're not talking much about linelock, superchargers, NOS, slicks, racing seats, roll cages etc etc etc. Especially with the 2001+ Cross Country since our cars are all still covered under factory warranty, we're not concerned with stuff like parts prices, repairs and how-to guides... that's the dealer's problem for now!

Guess what I'm trying to say is that as Cross Country owners we've got less to talk about, so when discussion topics wear a bit thin we look to the little things like nicked rims, and splitting leather and the question on everyones mind.. why won't Volvo supply us with front mud flaps???!!!

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[DanishXCViking]

Your so right Coastal.

I think we should encourage members to post a lot more pictures, so we can all sit back and enjoy the beauty of the XC, the worlds greatest car http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

DXCV

[wiz]

As I said in another thread (http://xc70.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=1;t=613) the other day, people who join boards like this are a finicky bunch, and it's human nature to complain.

The upside of the moaning is that you are perhaps alerted about a particular issue, and even more important, maybe Volvo is too (they surely monitor these user forums).

I am less interested in pictures (have you noticed that these cars look awfully similar to each other?) than in experiences with maintenance products/issues such as upkeep, tires, etc. I have learned an awful lot in the seven weeks I have been a member. I am hoping to pass some of that knowledge on to new members in the future. http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[coastal]

Sure wiz, that has something to do with it as well, a lot of people are coming to the web to find answers to their problems, whether big or small.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't think this group is a bunch of whiners, quite the opposite actually. I think we've really started to see a stronger sense of community build here recently and I really hope to see that continue. Just that I see a place like the AWD forum at BrickBoard.com and cringe at how brutal their members are towards the car.

I guess I'm just starting to sense a small amount of that here and want to try and curb curb it while we still can.

Personally, as you can probably tell by the number of times I've mentioned it, I quite enjoy seeing everyone's XC's and find it quite interesting to see the exact same car (or slightly modded) in very different environments throughout the world. So with that.. send in yer pics http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Also, keep in mind that I'm not inferring any single person here.. just a general vibe.

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Taylor

[pico de luuks]

I think this is THE site for XC owners and owners to be http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I spent quite some time on the internet last year prior to the purchase of my car looking for sites like this.
This site (that is you all) helped me to decide on the model (V70AWD or XC) color, options and more. The forum section of this site provides a lot of great information, interesting discussions and some insight in who XC-ers are. The photo section was great for seeing the car in different colors and environments. So I joined after I got my car and I like to believe that some of my contributions can help others decide on their purchase, help solve/prevent problems and share the fun of driving the great car the XC is!

And Taylor, looking at the increasing number of contributing members, this site is doing great and will continue to be the best XC resource site! http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[phdezra]

I agree with Wiz.

As I recall from my undergraduate college days, I took a course in Statistics and had to read a book titled "Lying with Statistics." While we do not have any statistics here with regard to forum participants, there is a basic concept know as "built in bias." Without a doubt, people who flock to forums such as this, and post several messages a week, are the exception to the common XC driver. Ergo, we're going to be nit-picky and finicky.

That said, I believe that is part of the hobby and "joy" of owning an XC70 for us. Sure, at the end of the day it comes down to driving it on the road (or dirt trail http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ), but for when we're confined to a desk (for me at least), I think these forums are loads of fun. http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Art]

Prepo and Taylor raise good points. We should focus more on the positive aspects of XC ownership. That isn't to say that we can't gripe and complain now and again, just as long as it doesn't pervade the overall tone of the forum. http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

As individual members, I think that we all appreciate what this site brings to the XC community and that we come together here for various reasons. Whether it's for intriguing commentary, photo submissions, insightful advice, or personal owner experiences, it's nice to know you can find it all here. http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

As a first time Volvoite, I find it interesting to hear comments about members' past experiences with their Volvos in relation to their current XC's. I guess that says a lot about the cars. http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[LisaPhish]

It might be interesting to take a survey on WHY people came to this site in the first place. I know personally, I had just purchased my XC and was having problems with it. What better place to go when having problems then to a website made up of people who own the exact same car!!! My first post, as many of you know, was asking whether the slight shimmy my car had was truly characteristic of these cars, as my dealership was trying to convince me it was. Thanks to the huge response I got from many of you, I learned this was NOT how the XC should ride, and am now on my way to getting the problem fixed. The Svc. Manager at the dealership even learned things from all of your replies. If it wasn't for this forum, I might have done everything in my power to get rid of the vehicle, but, with the majority sounding very happy, I stuck with my car.

This is my first Volvo, and many things that were new and unclear to me, have been explained to me here. Any concerns I had, when I was having second thoughts due to my personal issues with my particular car, have since vanished, also, as a result of the POSITIVE VIBE on these boards. I really do, LOVE my VOLVO.

I thank you all, for I have truly learned ALOT about Volvo's, and of course, XC's in particular from the members of this forum. I think this is an intelligent, whitty, classy and helpful bunch, and Taylor, you've got quite a great thing going here!

It's human nature to complain, yes, ( and I think once one person complains, others typically will follow. . . ) but that doesn't have to be a negative thing.  Maybe Volvo Reps DO scan these boards, and perhaps some of our ideas and wishes WILL be fulfilled as a result.  The general vibe here is POSITIVE, not negative. For the most part, I see alot of people who love their cars (so much so, that they stop to  check out this site daily, to either gain more knowledge, or more importantly, to OFFER ADVICE to someone who seeks it! ) and want to share their stories, good and bad, with the ultimate goal being, to help one another. I honestly see very little negativity. Everyone speaks to everyone, everyone is made to feel welcome - all in all, I think there's a lot of positive energy here, I wouldn't worry about it! This is a good thing!  

It's like Yin and Yang. Where there's good, there's bad. If it were all good, it would be boring, and if there was no bad, we wouldn't appreciate the good! Correct? http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Lisa

[wiz]

yeh, I don't catch a bad vibe from this board either. I don't think we should focus one way or the other - positive or negative.

As Lisa points out, she got a lot of support here in her initial interactions with her dealership. Someone recently was about to be charged $105 for a DRL disable, and wanted to know if that was normal. These people were not having positive experiences with their dealerships and got help here. I think that's making a positive out of a negative! http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

As Art points out, we all come here for different reasons, and it seems to me that this board provides a much wider variation of topic matter as well as tone than the other Volvo-related boards out there. I would like to see that continue.

[North Coast XC]

...and my two cents  http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif   I came to the forum because Iwas a first time owner of a USED XC and wanted to hear of the good and the bad to make an informed car purchase.  Since the research I'm usually checking out the site on my lunch hour to see what's new.

Coastal - the resource/maintenance area is a great idea.  Always great to get some tips.  

Despite the minor problems we have with our cars, we're still proud of them.  It's nice to get some feedback from other owners and some "validation" that we are not alone.

I wouldn't change my XC for anything! My wife and I love it!  It's a reliable attractive car!  http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Cheers all,
Patrick

[johnnh01v70xc]

My two cents:

As mentioned above, sub-forums broken down by area of interest (Upgrades, Problems, Adventures, Cool Stuff, etc.) would be great.  This would allow members to engage in their particular area of interest.

I think this would facilitate more in-depth exploration of issues as people could easily focus on things they care about.  People who like to bitch could immerse themselves in that w/ other like-minded members, people interested in discovering the full potential of these vehicles could readily find others who share similar goals, etc.

I think this site is a great resource, my input is not intended to criticize, rather to help make it better .
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[littlewaywelt]

Whining isn't so bad so long as its constructive. I love my 01 xc, but it has been a real pain in the arse. I'm not bitching yet, but I feel it is fair to complain when you have substantially more problems in a $40k car than in a $17k car. I give equal credence to the person who complains about poorly design cupholders as the one who complains about remotes not working or other electrical issues.

These boards provide a place for people to vent. Even the complainers, me included, love our cars. I would add, that just because your Volvo is running well, is no need to assume that the people who complain are being nit-picky. Put yourself in our shoes and you may have different feelings about the subject. I personally, am tired of the excuses for poor quality, such as "you know volvo's are prone to electrical problems..." After reading many of these boards, it seems to me that the people who criticize the whiners have cars that work properly.

Also, posting, not complaining (a fine line) about problems, is very useful because it helps us see common problems and allows us to more effectively deal with the dealerships.

Thanks to the insightful posts here and at the Brickboard, I was able to go to the dealership who priorly "could not replicate" the problem and show him that I was not imagining it. After 4 tries to fix the problem, they finally got it right. The bb's, the lemon law and a well written letter can be powerful motivators for dealers and manufacturers to correct problems.

[johnnh01v70xc]

littlewaywelt,

Agree that there is value in identifying deficiencies.  I don't think anyone is disagreeing w/ that.  Only suggestion was to create sub-forums to group different "types" (good, bad, whatever) of topics together so members with different needs could more readily find and explore what they need.

[wiz]

I agree with littlewaywelt. There are two factors involved in your experience with the car.

First, the quality of parts and manufacturing. That is a Volvo factory issue and I think it's accepted that Volvo's performance here is not on a par with the leading brands from Germany and Japan.

Second, there is the dealership. After six weeks on this board, it's obvious there is a huge variation.

Now if you have a "good" car and a responsive dealership, everything is wonderful. But if the car and the dealer are both dodgy, you are in big trouble. And as littlewaywelt points out, data from boards like this can be powerful evidence in helping convince a recalcitrant dealer that there is something wrong with the car.

To be honest, I don't have a problem with board members being "brutal towards the car" as coastal put it earlier in the thread. The car can take it. I do however, have a problem with members being brutal to each other, and that has happened on this board more than once in the last couple of weeks.

This is a wonderful resource, coastal is to be congratulated for its creation and upkeep, and in general the tone is positive and supportive. But there have been some very cutting posts recently that I feel were completely unnecessary, and I would make a plea for civility - we are all in the same boat so to speak, we all do love our cars, so lets treat each other the way we would want to be treated ourselves - with respect.

[littlewaywelt]

johnnh01v70xc,
I agree with you that it might be nice to have another forum for gripes and complaints.  My only worry is that the "gripers" are increasingly viewed at many sites as problematic, novices or worse, which I disagree with.  

I agree with one of the posters who pointed out that the griping tends to increase as boards become more frequented.  BBs are no exception to the fact that you'll always have more ppl complaining about something than comments from those that are satisfied.  I have no doubt that there are more satisfied xc owners than dissatisfied, but it is the nature of things to have the dissatisfied ppl provide more feedback.  I wish that i didn't have to gripe about my xc to anyone.