Wheel hub replacement -- fronts same as rear?

[Harold Lee]

Hi, I've seen the FCP video on replacing wheel hubs on my 2006 XC70. They're doing rears in that video, I need to replace my fronts. Is there anything different about the fronts VS the rears? I'd hate to get into it and run into something I wasn't prepared for. And as far as special tools it looks like I will need just a hub puller, any recommendation on a specific one to buy?

I'm having to deduce I need the front hubs, BTW, even though I took this car into a decent local foreign car garage and had them look over everything and they didn't call for new bearings. I had already checked them to the extent that I could, raising the fronts off the ground and see if there was any play in the wheel, listening for sounds while turning the front wheels by hand. There was no play. I could hear the wheels turning on the hubs, but it wasn't a grinding, crunchy sound, just... it did make some noise. And although the wheel turned, it wouldn't spin freely for more than half a turn or so, not like a bicycle wheel would when you spin it by hand, which will keep spinning for a while. Didn't know if that was about right for car wheels, or not.

I figured given the sound I was hearing while driving it must need new front hubs. I get noise -- not grinding, nothing extra while turning, just a thrumming noise or kind of a dull roar that just seems too loud to be normal. So I think I should replace them.

Any comments? Thanks -- Harold

[albertj]

I can't tell from your diagnosis whether your brakes are dragging or if you indeed have a hub issue.

[AKAMick]

It has been discussed before, front hubs are not that difficult to replace, driving will tell you which front hub is bad, turning loads the outside hub and makes it louder, the inside hub is unloaded and quietens down, check this thread, http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showthread.php?29316-Bearing-change&highlight=front+wheel+bearing

[Harold Lee]

Albert, I don't get a "braking" feel, but I can feel a slight vibration in the accelerator pedal that seems to go with the sound. I don't get any difference in the sound when turning in either direction, which confuses the issue. Maybe the hubs aren't bad enough yet to make sound while turning.

Can you describe the symptoms of dragging brakes?

Thanks

[Harold Lee]

Thanks AMAMick, checked out the thread. Still couldn't tell if the front bearing removal differed from the rear bearings. Since this is an all wheel drive car, I'm guessing the fronts are attached and are removed exactly as the rears are, but i just don't know --

[billr99]

Thanks AMAMick, checked out the thread. Still couldn't tell if the front bearing removal differed from the rear bearings. Since this is an all wheel drive car, I'm guessing the fronts are attached and are removed exactly as the rears are, but i just don't know --

Pretty much the same way. That is, four bolts coming thru from the backside of the upright hold the bearing housing to the upright. Really not hard to change out but it does take longer to get the caliper out of the way and to press the halfshaft out enough to clear the hub splines than it does to unbolt the bearing from the upright.

Have fun,

Bill

[hoonk]

I took this car into a decent local foreign car garage and they didn't call for new bearings.

I figured given the sound I was hearing while driving it must need new front hubs. I get noise -- not grinding, nothing extra while turning, just a thrumming noise or kind of a dull roar that just seems too loud to be normal. So I think I should replace them.

Any comments?

Yes - don't spend money replacing things you can't prove are bad. Save your money for things you really need to replace (and there will be plenty on a Volvo)

Bad wheel bearing usually make more or less noise when turning, Swerve down the road back and forth (less than 40 mph) and you should hear the "thrumming or dull roar" noises change when a side a loaded or unloaded.

If your "thrumming or dull roar" noises don't change when swerving you may have a bad wear pattern on a tire. A "scalloped " pattern sounds just like or worse than a wheel bearing, but the noise stays mostly the same in turns - Had a V50 the other day with 1 bad tire wear pattern, sounded like a terribly bad wheel bearing - mounting the spare eliminated the noise.

Other noises could come from a driveshaft center support bearing, right axle support bearing, rear diff or angle gear.

Turning the wheel/tire by hand - don't expect a driven wheel (with an axle attached to a differential) to spin freely, you are trying to spin a lot more than just a hub, wheel/tire and brake disc.

[albertj]

Albert, I don't get a "braking" feel, but I can feel a slight vibration in the accelerator pedal that seems to go with the sound. I don't get any difference in the sound when turning in either direction, which confuses the issue. Maybe the hubs aren't bad enough yet to make sound while turning.

Can you describe the symptoms of dragging brakes?

Thanks

Typically dragging brakes in the front will cause the car to "pull" to that side. If one/both are dragging badly one will smell outgassing of the brake compound (a phenolic sort of smell). Rears not so easy; visual inspection and putting car in neutral with all 4 wheels in the air, turning the wheels and looking/listening.

Not sure what the rest of you think, but with "vibration in the accelerator pedal" and no evidence of an issue while turning etc., I'd be looking for knackered (technical term for "exhausted") motor mounts. As for that bad wear pattern on the tire, it would have a cause, look for a bad inner or outer tie rod end to start.

Do chime in.

[Harold Lee]

Hoonk, the shop did tell me I needed to replace the original stock struts and shocks, said the front tires were showing what they called "cupping", could that be the same thing as what you are referring to -- scalloped?

[hoonk]

front tires were showing what they called "cupping", could that be the same thing as what you are referring to -- scalloped?

Yes, and some think that cupping/scalloped can be caused by non-dampened movement in the shocks. Perhaps due to wear.

Unfortunately shocks/struts all around are $$$ -

I would try different tires (borrowed or new) to diagnose your noise.

[Harold Lee]

I'm going to rotate the front tires to the back today and see if the noise shifts to the back. Tedious without a lift, but it'll tell me the true story.

Thanks for the info --

Harold

[Harold Lee]

Bill, sorry for the basic question here, but once the shaft is pushed back far enough to clear the hub, it's not difficult to push it back into place again?

[Harold Lee]

Successfully replaced the right front hub. Eliminated the noise completely. I was going to replace both fronts but the left seems fine for now, so I'll wait.
Managed to get this done without taking off the control arm by pushing in the axle and using my floor jack, lifting the whole assembly enough to allow the axle to push back far enough to get to the four hub bolts, and getting them out. Tedious because there was just barely enough room to remove the bolts, but I managed to get them out.

Thanks to everyone for the help!

My next project will be replacing the struts, shocks, etc. all around.

I couldn't find the torque amount for the axle bolt, so I just put it in pretty tight using a cheater bar (didn't crank it as much as I could, just what seemed appropriately tight).

Anyone know the proper torque for that bolt, or where I can get that info?



Harold

[billr99]

I couldn't find the torque amount for the axle bolt, so I just put it in pretty tight using a cheater bar (didn't crank it as much as I could, just what seemed appropriately tight).

Anyone know the proper torque for that bolt, or where I can get that info?
Harold

Harold:

You want to be careful with that axle bolt as it is a stretch bolt and you can snap it off if you really honk on it. Per VIDA, torque spec is 35 Nm (25 ft/lbs) and a further 90 degrees. If you are using the bolts with the rubber cone those are just 50 Nm (36 ft/lbs) and that's it.

Cheers,

Bill

[goldxc70]

I need to replace one or both front bearings on my MY2004 soon. Front left is definitely shot and is very noisy at certain highway speeds. Any thoughts on:

1. best brand? (I believe JRL recommends Volvo but $$$ for a 13 year old car)
2. could using different brands affect ABS? I suspect not as nowhere do I see a recommendation for changing both at same time.

[JRL]

All are bad now
Put a brand new VOLVO hub on the front of a 98T5 I'm working on, it literally exploded in 20 feet after the car went back on the ground and driven out of the work bay!!
*()&$(*#&#$

[AKAMick]

In the process of replacing the front Relucter rings on my 02, as the ABS light, warnings and no cruise control was becoming an irritant, the process requires both hubs to be removed to gain access to the rings on the axles, the relucter rings can be removed and new ones fitted through the hub openings in the uprights. The left hub came off quite easy as I had replaced it 2 years ago, yes, with a aftermarket Ebay sourced hub, It was in fine condition, still smooth running. The right side was more difficult to remove as it was an original, upon removal it was slightly rough when turned, so now waiting for another Ebay sourced hub to arrive, As these hubs are so easy to replace I will not buy the expensive units as I can replace a hub inside of 2 hours, That's just me though.

[vtl]

i need to replace one or both front bearings on my my2004 soon. Front left is definitely shot and is very noisy at certain highway speeds. Any thoughts on:

1. Best brand? (i believe jrl recommends volvo but $$$ for a 13 year old car)
2. Could using different brands affect abs? I suspect not as nowhere do i see a recommendation for changing both at same time.

skf, fag.

[Xfingers]

I paid $40 for a rear hub from 1AAuto.com. The hub was different than what was pictured on the site. I've put 3k miles on it...so far, so good. This car doesn't see a lot of use so even if the hub fails after 10k miles, that's still about 3 years of life for me. Hopefully i'll get 20k+ miles. My 2002 is 15 years old, how long do these cars last?!!!

[vtl]

My 2002 is 15 years old, how long do these cars last?!!!
Forever if taken care of.

[Astro14]

Hopefully i'll get 20k+ miles. My 2002 is 15 years old, how long do these cars last?!!!

In 70 years, your car will be as old as one of mine.

How long will your car last? Until you stop caring for it.

People get tired of cars and rationalize the tremendous expense of a new car as being necessary.

It isn't.

A well maintained older car is reliable transportation. The more you understand it and its attendant strengths and weaknesses, the better the long term reliability.

There is at least one guy on here (the dark knight) who has over 400,000 miles on his.

Your call, of course, but just remember, you've got another SEVENTY YEARS before you get to call it old...

[albertj]

All are bad now
Put a brand new VOLVO hub on the front of a 98T5 I'm working on, it literally exploded in 20 feet after the car went back on the ground and driven out of the work bay!!
*()&$(*#&#$

I wonder if you accidentally received a mis-shelved return or a counterfeit. I never got a fake Volvo bluebox part; I have with Timken and ACDelco, and it sucks. It's usually easy to tell and I have not seen any lately.

[AKAMick]

Just finished up my project with the ABS Relucter rings, and replaced the original left front hub, the new one came from Prime Choice off Ebay and it is a as original fit, it actually looks identical, nice part, I could have bought a complete set of hubs for the car for the price of one Volvo hub, my 04 has a AutoZone front hub that I replaced 5yrs ago, so I am satisfied with the aftermarket as far as hubs go. The front hubs are too easy to replace to pay Volvo prices

[billr99]

Just finished up my project with the ABS Relucter rings, and replaced the original left front hub, the new one came from Prime Choice off Ebay and it is a as original fit, it actually looks identical, nice part, I could have bought a complete set of hubs for the car for the price of one Volvo hub, my 04 has a AutoZone front hub that I replaced 5yrs ago, so I am satisfied with the aftermarket as far as hubs go. The front hubs are too easy to replace to pay Volvo prices

I've used Prime Choice hubs on both of my current P2s and they've worked fine despite the cheap price.

Cheers,

Bill

[goldxc70]

Just finished up my project with the ABS Relucter rings ...

That sounds interesting. Have you documented this anywhere else?

[goldxc70]

Folks, thanks for the input. I've gone with the less expensive option.

By the way, has anybody had the experience of a catastrophic wheel bearing failure (other than JRL's experience mentioned in this thread)?

[AKAMick]

That sounds interesting. Have you documented this anywhere else? No, pretty easy with the hubs removed, my rings were corroded and split, came off easy working through the upright hub opening, clean up the axle shaft mounting of all rust, a dremel with little wire brush works the nuts, tap on the new ring with punch after coating the surfaces with Loctite bearing and sleeve mount, refit hubs away you go, ABS warnings no longer lighting up the dashboard, and cruise control is working again.

[goldxc70]

In the process of replacing the front Relucter rings on my 02, as the ABS light, warnings and no cruise control was becoming an irritant, the process requires both hubs to be removed to gain access to the rings on the axles, the relucter rings can be removed and new ones fitted through the hub openings in the uprights. The left hub came off quite easy as I had replaced it 2 years ago, yes, with a aftermarket Ebay sourced hub, It was in fine condition, still smooth running. The right side was more difficult to remove as it was an original, upon removal it was slightly rough when turned, so now waiting for another Ebay sourced hub to arrive, As these hubs are so easy to replace I will not buy the expensive units as I can replace a hub inside of 2 hours, That's just me though.

How did you decide that it was the ABS rings that were faulty? Was it a visual inspection or did you do OBD diagnostics? My ABS light is on but I have been told by an indy Volvo guy that it is the computer because of the codes:

CEM-1A5F Communication with BCM control module Signal missing
CEM-1A64 Communication with AOC control module Signal missing
ECM-9400 Brake pedal sensor - Signal missing

[AKAMick]

One of the many codes indicated the LF ABS wheel speed sensor, as one bad sensor can cascade other codes in a related system I pulled the wheel and removed the ABS sensor and with a flashlight rotated the axle and observed the reluctor wheel, heavy corrosion and a obvious crack, I usually look for mechanical faults before going the "it's the computer" excuse, I used the Vida after using the OBD2 reader which gave me a weird transmission speed sensor code?, the VIDA gave me more useful information, a few other ABS related codes but the LF ABS speed sensor seemed to be the most likely problem, wheel sensors are just Hall effect sensors and unlikely to fail, but the rings can corrode in rust belt areas.

[goldxc70]

Changed my front left hub yesterday. A bit difficult to access the hub mounting bolts but an 18mm offset box wrench I've had for many years did the job for the three easier to access bolts and a socket on the top one. I didn't need to undo any of the suspension or steering links. A few gentle (!!) "taps" with a hammer got the old hub off. If my count is correct, 16 bolts to get everything off and 16 to put it all back together.

Going to do the front right tomorrow and hope that it is as straight forward.

PS I checked the ABS tone ring when I was in there and it looked like it was in pretty good condition.

[AKAMick]

I use a 18mm Snap-On swivel socket to access the four hub bolts, short and compact yet very durable, I just push the axle slightly in and it gets right on the head of the bolt with a eight inch extension and a swivel head Snap-On 3/8 ratchet does the job, a swivel and socket is too long to get into the limited space back of the upright to remove the bolts. My big "Morgan Knocker" slide hammer with a L attachment makes short work of removing the hub.

[goldxc70]

I use a 18mm Snap-On swivel socket to access the four hub bolts, short and compact yet very durable, I just push the axle slightly in and it gets right on the head of the bolt with a eight inch extension and a swivel head Snap-On 3/8 ratchet does the job, a swivel and socket is too long to get into the limited space back of the upright to remove the bolts. My big "Morgan Knocker" slide hammer with a L attachment makes short work of removing the hub.

A swivel socket would have made things go a bit faster than my offset wrench.

I could have gotten a loaner slide hammer but I figured I'd try the regular hammer first! When I saw the gap opening between the hub and knuckle with the first whack, I knew I wouldnt have a problem and just took it easy tapping all the way around. I put anti-seize on the new hubs in case I need to do this job again.

PS Both ABS tone rings looked to be clean and in good shape.