2005 XC 70 potential fuel pump issue

[avrjon]

Hello everyone!

Everything was working great till the other day. My Volvo didn't start yesterday morning. I thought it could be the battery but when CAA came to boost my battery he said it should be something else. I guessed it could be injection or fuel pump and had my car towed to my indie.

He diagnosed it as non functioning fuel pump and ordered the piece for me. The part was almost $500 and I didn't have time to order online cheaper so I agreed. He spent like 3 hours to install the pump. It works now and we park it as I go inside to pay. After I get in the car, the car doesn't work and SRS airbag urgent service light pops up. We push the car inside and we check it and my mechanic advises the part might be bad. He wants to order a new one.

Of course, I'm not paying anything extra after paying $930 + tax. I am just wondering if the problem could be something else. Has anyone encountered such thing? It looks like fuel pump but it's a bit interesting that the car would run without a problem and then not start up.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thank you very much in advance.

[hoonk]

had my car towed to my indie.
He diagnosed it as non functioning fuel pump
mechanic advises the NEW part might be bad
wondering if the problem could be something else.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

You might want to have him put your old fuel pump back in, refund your money and have the car towed to someone that could diagnose the problem without spending ~$930 first to replace a part that was not bad (maybe paying an hour for his diagnostic time would be fair - you just want a second opinion :) )

If the car stays where it is - you will be out that $930 that did not fix the problem.

You should at least get your old fuel pump back so the next shop can put it back in and find the real problem. Then give the new one back to the first shop and ask for a refund.

[Xfingers]

Can you be more specific about your starting problem? Is the car cranking and cranking but the engine not firing up? I guess this would indicate lack of fuel or lack of spark...

[Scopeman]

Does this shop have VIDA, or a really full function scanner like Snap-On? They should be able to test the fuel pump and fuel pressure parameters with the engine not running. This may point to a the problem.

[avrjon]

Actually, the car started but stopped after a second. When we hook it up to the OBD II system, it read fuel pressure problem. We disconnected the little hose going to the fuel filter and tried to start the car. The fuel should have squirted but nothing happened. I mean it looks like a fuel pump issue but I'm just wondering if there are other parts which disable the fuel pump to work. A sensor? Something electrical?

[avrjon]

They have a full scanner, Scopeman.

[Astro14]

Actually, the car started but stopped after a second. When we hook it up to the OBD II system, it read fuel pressure problem. We disconnected the little hose going to the fuel filter and tried to start the car. The fuel should have squirted but nothing happened. I mean it looks like a fuel pump issue but I'm just wondering if there are other parts which disable the fuel pump to work. A sensor? Something electrical?

Yeah...this clearly isn't a Volvo shop. "full scanner" means, what, exactly?

There are lots of requirements for the ECU to energize the fuel pump. Pulling the hose may, or may not, have diagnosed the pump. VIDA tells you the steps to diagnose and reads the ECU parameters.

A "full scanner" doesn't do either.

[avrjon]

[QUOTE=Astro14;195233]Yeah...this clearly isn't a Volvo shop. "full scanner" means, what, exactly?

There are lots of requirements for the ECU to energize the fuel pump. Pulling the hose may, or may not, have diagnosed the pump. VIDA tells you the steps to diagnose and reads the ECU parameters.

A "full scanner" doesn't do either.[/

That's good to know, thank you very much for your feedback. I'll go and see if they were able solve the problem.

[vtl]

I have similar occasional no start 2-3 times a year on a 2005. The car has no fuel pressure problems whatsoever, once it starts.

Fuel pump controller (PEM) had a recall, the fix was to physically relocate it from rear right wheel area to the trunk. Also PEM design was changed a bit to address excessive oxidation issue.

What I did with my PEM is sanded contacts lightly, cleaned with CRC electric cleaner and put some dielectric grease to prevent further oxidation. Starts reliably for now, will see how it goes.

[hoonk]

I'll go and see if they were able solve the problem.

What about the ~$930 that may have been spent needlessly?

[avrjon]

I have similar occasional no start 2-3 times a year on a 2005. The car has no fuel pressure problems whatsoever, once it starts.

Fuel pump controller (PEM) had a recall, the fix was to physically relocate it from rear right wheel area to the trunk. Also PEM design was changed a bit to address excessive oxidation issue.

What I did with my PEM is sanded contacts lightly, cleaned with CRC electric cleaner and put some dielectric grease to prevent further oxidation. Starts reliably for now, will see how it goes.

I wonder if it was the same issue for me. I guess it's too late now... I'll see if this problem arises again even with the new pump.

[avrjon]

What about the ~$930 that may have been spent needlessly?

You're right. As far as the mechanic is concerned it's a faulty part. He ordered a new one. They put a new part and the car works now without a problem. If this problem reoccurs though, I'm changing my mechanic and will take the car back for a free fix before I do that.

I wish I was more mechanically inclined and had the time to diagnose and change the fuel by myself. I could have saved at least half of the $.

[avrjon]

Something very strange happened tonight! The car worked strong and even I thought I had better mileage in city. Didn't drive yesterday and drove it to the work today which is 5kms away. On my way back, the car stalled twice! Never had that issue before? This was in the first 5 or 600 metres. Later the car started and I made it back home without a problem.

I have no warning signs in the dashboard. It's a mystery to me... anyone has an idea?

[goldxc70]

How much gas was in the tank? I've been having similar stalling issues when the gas drops below 1/4 tank. My mechanic thinks it's the fuel pump but isn't certain.

[avrjon]

It's around 1/4 (perhaps less) but this never happened before. I'll put some gas and see if it changes anything.
Thanks!

[avrjon]

Well, now starts and stops after a few seconds. Unbelievable!

[vtl]

Very good, it would be easier to sort it out for the guy who'll be doing the repair.

[avrjon]

Very good, it would be easier to sort it out for the guy who'll be doing the repair.

I hope... it absolutely acts like a faulty fuel pump but I started to think maybe it's something else which causes this.

[goldxc70]

I hope... it absolutely acts like a faulty fuel pump but I started to think maybe it's something else which causes this.

This is what happened to me: I drove from Toronto, with full tank of gas, to Kingston on Saturday morning with no issues at all; on Monday, coming back from Kingston, it lost power on the highway a few times. Each time I pulled over, it stalled but immediately restarted. Finally, it wouldn't restart and I had to get it towed back. Mechanic thought it was fuel pump but was not certain so I didn't go ahead with that. Since, I notice if it drops below a 1/4 tank, it acts up. When filled above that, no problems and it runs beautifully. I'm going to get it checked with VIDA as a next step.

[avrjon]

This is what happened to me: I drove from Toronto, with full tank of gas, to Kingston on Saturday morning with no issues at all; on Monday, coming back from Kingston, it lost power on the highway a few times. Each time I pulled over, it stalled but immediately restarted. Finally, it wouldn't restart and I had to get it towed back. Mechanic thought it was fuel pump but was not certain so I didn't go ahead with that. Since, I notice if it drops below a 1/4 tank, it acts up. When filled above that, no problems and it runs beautifully. I'm going to get it checked with VIDA as a next step.

Wow! Very scary! If you find the culprit let me know.

[hoonk]

I hope... it absolutely acts like a faulty fuel pump but I started to think maybe it's something else which causes this.
Sorry, I don't mean to beat a dead horse but as I said previously - especially now that 2 fuel pumps have been put in and the problem clearly has not been fixed -

"You might want to have him put your old fuel pump back in, refund your money and have the car towed to someone that could diagnose the problem without spending ~$930 first to replace a part that was not bad (maybe paying an hour for his diagnostic time would be fair - you just want a second opinion )

If the car stays where it is - you will be out that $930 that did not fix the problem.

You should at least get your old fuel pump back so the next shop can put it back in and find the real problem. Then give the new one back to the first shop and ask for a refund."

[avrjon]

Sorry, I don't mean to beat a dead horse but as I said previously - especially now that 2 fuel pumps have been put in and the problem clearly has not been fixed -

"You might want to have him put your old fuel pump back in, refund your money and have the car towed to someone that could diagnose the problem without spending ~$930 first to replace a part that was not bad (maybe paying an hour for his diagnostic time would be fair - you just want a second opinion )

If the car stays where it is - you will be out that $930 that did not fix the problem.

You should at least get your old fuel pump back so the next shop can put it back in and find the real problem. Then give the new one back to the first shop and ask for a refund."


You're absolutely right! I hope my old fuel pump is with them somewhere...

[avrjon]

Just wanted to give an update. Apparently the fuel pump control module was broken as well.what an expensive part! I'm glad I didn't have to pay anything extra.

[perkinscl]

Just wanted to give an update. Apparently the fuel pump control module was broken as well.what an expensive part! I'm glad I didn't have to pay anything extra.

That's good! Had you known, you can get a guaranteed used PEM from Erie Volvo for a little over $100. Very easy DIY, about as easy as the fuel filter. (I just did the PEM & fuel pump)

[goldxc70]

That's good! Had you known, you can get a guaranteed used PEM from Erie Volvo for a little over $100. Very easy DIY, about as easy as the fuel filter. (I just did the PEM & fuel pump)

perkinsci, what were the symptoms that led to you changing the PEM and fuel pump?

avrjon, glad to hear you got your problem resolved!

[hoonk]

Just wanted to give an update. Apparently the fuel pump control module was broken as well.what an expensive part! I'm glad I didn't have to pay anything extra.

Sorry, but your fuel pump module was the problem in the first place. It was not "broken as well". Have your mechanic put the original fuel pump back in and refund that cost. (controller ~$365 plus a couple hours labor (Being nice with that 2 hours) = a lot less than the ~$930 you spent on the wrong diagnosis!)

I'm not trying to be an ass - I have owned a Volvo repair shop for 38 years, been in the car repair business for 45 years and hate hearing stories of people getting ripped off for things they do not need. I have been crucified for leaving dirty fingerprints on cars but I still get really pissed when I hear stories where someone pays for an expensive repair that is not needed.

[perkinscl]

perkinsci, what were the symptoms that led to you changing the PEM and fuel pump?

avrjon, glad to hear you got your problem resolved!

I had an intermittent check engine light. Scanned with VIDA and got the code was: ECM-2900 (Fuel Pressure - Faulty Signal).

[goldxc70]

Yeah...this clearly isn't a Volvo shop. "full scanner" means, what, exactly?

There are lots of requirements for the ECU to energize the fuel pump. Pulling the hose may, or may not, have diagnosed the pump. VIDA tells you the steps to diagnose and reads the ECU parameters.

A "full scanner" doesn't do either.

I can attest to this. My independent shop has a "full scanner" but still can't diagnose my issue. His suggestion is to start replacing things which I'm not happy to do for a number of reasons.

[albertj]

[QUOTE=Astro14;195233]Yeah...this clearly isn't a Volvo shop. "full scanner" means, what, exactly?

There are lots of requirements for the ECU to energize the fuel pump. Pulling the hose may, or may not, have diagnosed the pump. VIDA tells you the steps to diagnose and reads the ECU parameters.

A "full scanner" doesn't do either.[/

That's good to know, thank you very much for your feedback. I'll go and see if they were able solve the problem.

Is it cold or warmed up when you have the running problems? I'm wondering if you have a sensor dying or lying.

[goldxc70]

Is it cold or warmed up when you have the running problems? I'm wondering if you have a sensor dying or lying.

My issue is consistently when warm and less than 1/8 tank of gas. Even with less than 1/8 tank, it's OK for short trips until it warms up again. So it could be something like the pump is overheating and then failing intermittently when there isn't enough gas in the tank to cool it.

[avrjon]

I can attest to this. My independent shop has a "full scanner" but still can't diagnose my issue. His suggestion is to start replacing things which I'm not happy to do for a number of reasons.

Perhaps I should find a Volvo guy in this case.


Sorry, but your fuel pump module was the problem in the first place. It was not "broken as well". Have your mechanic put the original fuel pump back in and refund that cost. (controller ~$365 plus a couple hours labor (Being nice with that 2 hours) = a lot less than the ~$930 you spent on the wrong diagnosis!)

I'm not trying to be an ass - I have owned a Volvo repair shop for 38 years, been in the car repair business for 45 years and hate hearing stories of people getting ripped off for things they do not need. I have been crucified for leaving dirty fingerprints on cars but I still get really pissed when I hear stories where someone pays for an expensive repair that is not needed.

No, you're right absolutely. It's just that when he says also the pump was faulty, there's not much I can do. I don't have anything to prove since they got rid of my old pump. Only thing I can do is to change this mechanic at this point. I wish they had kept my old pump though, then things would have been different.

[ironmike]

This! It's frustrating when you see this happen to people. I brought mine in for an inspection at a Volvo dealer once, it passed but they said they had to replace a headlight bulb (which wasn't out when I brought it in). $36 installed. Okayyyyyyy...which was it? The drivers side. Interestingly I replaced it just the week before. When I told them that I got quizzed on my skills on lightbulb replacement (don't get them dirty, wear latex gloves, don't touch the bulb, etc.). Yeah, I get it. So I chalked it up to faulty Sylvania bulb and drove off with my trust new Volvo OEM bulb (likely made in same factory with OSRAM). Next night I come out to find the headlight out again. Next morning I take a deeper look. The wiring harness was melted, common for these cars. THAT was the problem, not the $36 bulb. Thing is, it's really hard to miss the meltage and pulling the connector on/off. Perhaps the tech sees it so much they just don't see it anymore :)

[goldxc70]

Perhaps I should find a Volvo guy in this case.
The problem is that an independent shop in Canada can't afford VIDA. Plus, if they use an unlicensed version, they run the risk of Volvo making life difficult. Some indy shops have "arrangements" with a Volvo dealer and get testing done at the dealship.


No, you're right absolutely. It's just that when he says also the pump was faulty, there's not much I can do. I don't have anything to prove since they got rid of my old pump. Only thing I can do is to change this mechanic at this point. I wish they had kept my old pump though, then things would have been different.

This is always tough to sort out after the fact. Even in cases where they produce the "faulty part", you have no way of knowing if that part came from your car. Another excuse I've heard is that they return the faulty part for core discount. On a positive note, you can be happy that you've got a new fuel pump fitted.