Should I remove the AWD system or repair it?

[Jorge-789995]

02 V70 XC with 175k. No major issues with the car since new. A few headlights, couple wheel bearings, PCV system overhaul, suspension, water pump and timing belt during maintenance intervals. All normal in my view.

I think I have at a minimum, a Rear Differential Pinion Seal that is leaking and probably a bad front prop shaft CV. I'm not 100% sure on the latter, but there is some pinging going on at times and according to Howard's post, it might be the front CV. I could have more going on, but let's say that is the baseline.

Rather than repairing these items, I am considering removing them and not replacing them. I am not sold on the need for AWD in the first place and given that the VC AWD system is not particularly effective, I think I'd be better off saving the time and money and just making it a FWD car.

If I did this, I'd remove the prop shaft and probably try to remove the Viscous Coupler, Final Drive and rear drive shafts. Clearly not all that is necessary, but might as well lose the extra weight of a system that is no longer functional.

I am trying to get the car ready for the cold weather and work on things now while the temps are reasonable. I have noticed the leaking VC and I don't want to do this at 10 degrees F. I am also replacing the exhaust from the cat back, roll bar bushings and endlinks, so this is a convenient time to do this type of work because of improved access to the prop shaft and VC and final drive etc.

Has anyone done this on the P2 cars? I've seen posts about older XC's that are now FWD, but none for the P2.

Are there any drawbacks of doing this? Will the car drive differently ( aside from the obvious lack of AWD)?

Thoughts?


Thanks,

Keith

[JRL]

An 02 with 175K miles is worth practically nothing, so if you don't really need AWD, remove the propshaft.
If it's quiet and drives normally, save yourself the big bucks and apply it to your next car
(This is IMO, I'm sure you will get others)

[Xheart]

It sounds like you're done with this car Keith.
I will retire it gracefully.

But you have maintained it so well for these many miles.
Oil seal leak is common in aging AWD, not that complicated to service and restore it back to your likeness -- if you have time.
Once exhaust is out of the way, it is rather straight forward.
Reman Prop-shaft is $465 at colorado shaft.

[howardc64]

I think just the effort to remove the propeller shaft, you are already most way there for the remainder of the repairs

- remove VC (3 bolts)
- replace final drive pinion seal
- replace prop shaft front CV

Toughest part is probably getting the rusty CVs off the flange on the back towards the VC end since you are in Wisconsin and may have salted road. And of course spending all the time working under the car.

Double check to make sure you have a leaking VC. Oil leak from the final drive pinion shaft seal will basically leak out of the VC's bottom opening so make sure it is the VC that is leaking. The VC unit is pretty sealed on these cars, not sure how frequent it actually leaks. I've never cracked one open but google images showed some VC's internal fluid is almost like thick grease viscosity. Very different from final drive oil. Here is a pic. Not Volvo but I'm guessing similar? Anyway, remember it has to solidify instantly when the VC detects slips.

http://berlinasportivo.com/Technical/VC/Viscous%20Coupling%20top%20off.JPG

Even if you have a bad VC, given it has to come out to get to the pinion seal, might see if you can source one from erievolvo. Easy to take off and put back on.

To make it FWD on 01-02 with VC design, I think all you have to do is remove the propeller shaft. I got more pickup and +1 mpg when I had mine out.

On the driveshaft, the most common failure is front CV. If you see a black ring in the surrounding housing around the front CV, the grease likely got out and CV has some wear. Mine wasn't that bad and just felt it didn't twist smoothly when I had the shaft out. But it was enough to cause a pinging sound under the center console here and there. Colorado drive shaft sells just the front CV kit for little over $100. 03+ and <=2000 are easy to source. I just searched and Dorman even makes one for 03+ for about $120. But 01-02 has a slightly different design that is harder to source aftermarket. I think Volvo dealer prices are probably $300+, colorado driveshaft helped me out and put a kit together for me on my 01 when I did mine for little over $100.

[Jorge-789995]

It sounds like you're done with this car Keith.
I will retire it gracefully.

But you have maintained it so well for these many miles.
Oil seal leak is common in aging AWD, not that complicated to service and restore it back to your likeness -- if you have time.
Once exhaust is out of the way, it is rather straight forward.
Reman Prop-shaft is $465 at colorado shaft.


I am not done with the car at all. I just did a bunch of work to it to keep it on the road for another 2-3 years or more. I joke around about hitting 300k with it, but that may be a stretch. It still looks really good and drives well too. Not bad for 175k. I like it and since it's not worth much, I may as well keep it going. All in all, it's a pretty handy car, and it's paid for, and I know its history.

What do you mean about retiring it gracefully?

I have never thought that AWD on any car was really needed. If driving is that bad, I usually think I should just stay home. I have never thought that having AWD improved safety, but having 4 good quality snow tires helped in stopping, accelerating and turning. I know that is blasphemy on a XC website, but that is my view and I've driven in plenty of snow, ice and winter.

Given that opinion, I don't value the AWD much at all even if it is only a couple of hundred to get it back working properly. If I gain a MPG, then there is a benefit to removing it.

Are there any drawbacks to a FWD XC? Removing AWD won't screw anything up will it? Will it drive like any other FWD car I've had? I'm leaning towards removal, but I don't want to create problems so I am asking ahead of time. Measure twice, cut once so to speak.

Thanks,

Keith

[Jorge-789995]

I think just the effort to remove the propeller shaft, you are already most way there for the remainder of the repairs

- remove VC (3 bolts)
- replace final drive pinion seal
- replace prop shaft front CV

Toughest part is probably getting the rusty CVs off the flange on the back towards the VC end since you are in Wisconsin and may have salted road. And of course spending all the time working under the car.

Double check to make sure you have a leaking VC. Oil leak from the final drive pinion shaft seal will basically leak out of the VC's bottom opening so make sure it is the VC that is leaking. The VC unit is pretty sealed on these cars, not sure how frequent it actually leaks. I've never cracked one open but google images showed some VC's internal fluid is almost like thick grease viscosity. Very different from final drive oil. Here is a pic. Not Volvo but I'm guessing similar? Anyway, remember it has to solidify instantly when the VC detects slips.

http://berlinasportivo.com/Technical/VC/Viscous%20Coupling%20top%20off.JPG

Even if you have a bad VC, given it has to come out to get to the pinion seal, might see if you can source one from erievolvo. Easy to take off and put back on.

To make it FWD on 01-02 with VC design, I think all you have to do is remove the propeller shaft. I got more pickup and +1 mpg when I had mine out.

On the driveshaft, the most common failure is front CV. If you see a black ring in the surrounding housing around the front CV, the grease likely got out and CV has some wear. Mine wasn't that bad and just felt it didn't twist smoothly when I had the shaft out. But it was enough to cause a pinging sound under the center console here and there. Colorado drive shaft sells just the front CV kit for little over $100. 03+ and <=2000 are easy to source. I just searched and Dorman even makes one for 03+ for about $120. But 01-02 has a slightly different design that is harder to source aftermarket. I think Volvo dealer prices are probably $300+, colorado driveshaft helped me out and put a kit together for me on my 01 when I did mine for little over $100.

Thanks Howard. Your posts and website were very helpful in diagnosing the problems. I really appreciate your write up and pictures. They were/are very informative. I think it is the pinion seal because the VC is wet and leaking through the bottom opening like you said. I saw it had dripped on the exhaust pipe at one point. I really heard the system groan when driving around a parking garage. It was a really tight garage down in Chicago where I was in a constant circle for 5 or 6 floors. There was a lot of groaning and pinging. I may have more going on, but for sure the pinion seal and CV are bad.

As I said above, I don't value the AWD much on this car and never really have. I have to spin the front wheels quite a bit to get the rears to engage. If I could remove it for $0, and eliminate a complicated system and all associated failure points, gain 1 MPG fuel efficiency and not create any problems, I think I would be ahead on this one. I just don't want to create any problems in the future by doing so.

Unless there are any compelling reasons to leave it AWD, then I'm going to start removal tomorrow.

Thanks again for your write ups. Maybe I'll trade for a Tesla like you did. I have had my eye on them for a long time. How do you think they would handle Wisconsin winters when it gets -25F?

Keith

[howardc64]

Are there any drawbacks to a FWD XC? Removing AWD won't screw anything up will it? Will it drive like any other FWD car I've had? I'm leaning towards removal, but I don't want to create problems so I am asking ahead of time. Measure twice, cut once so to speak.


Had my prop shaft off for a couple of months while sourcing the CV. No problem in FWD. You might consider just taking the prop shaft off like most FWD conversions. Leaving the VC on is probably good idea to keep the elements away from pinion seals unless you can fashion a tight cover. Might check if you should replace the seal anyways to prevent final drive from wearing out with low/no oil. I've not read anyone that has gone and taken more then the prop shaft out for this conversion.


Maybe I'll trade for a Tesla like you did. I have had my eye on them for a long time. How do you think they would handle Wisconsin winters when it gets -25F?


Norway has a high percentage of Tesla sales due to significant tax incentive. They seem to do fine with snow tires. Winter driving also reduces driving range as battery energy is used to heat the cabin. No engine heat to leverage for that :)

[vtl]

Norway has a high percentage of Tesla sales due to significant tax incentive. They seem to do fine with snow tires. Winter driving also reduces driving range as battery energy is used to heat the cabin. No engine heat to leverage for that :)
Do they sell kerosene-powered cabin heaters? ;)

[JRL]

I think that went the way of air cooled 1960s VWs and Porsches

[Steve F]

I drove my '01 2 years with a blown angle gear. I got around pretty good in the winter but I ran dedicated snow tires. My driveway goes up a pretty steep incline and there were a couple times I couldn't get up it but both times were when it had snowed more than 6". I was actually surprised how well the car did. My job requires me to be out in the thick of it so I replaced the angle gear with a used unit to restore the AWD. I've experienced a loss of 2mpg with the AWD connected.

[Jorge-789995]

Update...

It's been a long project, but my new FWD V70 XC is born. In addition to a ton of other work, I removed the propshaft, VC, differential and rear drive axles. I figure I lost over 100 pounds of AWD. I will probably weigh it one of these days.

It was a beast of a project and if I knew then, what I know now, I would have probably left it alone, or just had someone disconnect the prop shaft for me. It was no fun crawling around under that car for hours at a time with little or no progress. I got it done though and I like it.

The car essentially drives the same except for the tighter turns. I need to drive it for a bit to really test it out, but I like it better than before. The AWD does not engage while turning like it did before. It drives more normal in FWD mode. So far, I'm pleased with the results. No draw-backs that I can see at this point.

Thanks for all the input,

Keith

[kutcht1]

Awesome! Can't wait for you to upload a step by step with pictures to help someone else who ends up down that same road.
TomK