El system service required

[Nashv70]

This message came on in my dash this morning as I started the car and drove to work. Stayed on the whole time. When I left the battery light flickered on and off and the message was there. Went to have the battery tested and it said good battery but needs charging. The battery was at 73%. They said the alternator was fine. This battery was purchased about 2 months ago. Would that be enough to set of this warning? Thanks in advance

[Nashv70]

Forgot to say this is a 2001 V70XC has 196k on it. Bought it used. Actually it says El power system service required. As I was driving home the car stopped on me. didn't have enough power to drive. At first wouldn't start then it started after a few minutes. I used my roadside service to get a tow. Meanwhile it started fine and the battery indicator and message went away and everything was working. After awhile though everything got weak. Is this a bad alternator? Can anybody suggest where I get one without going to the dealer...

[billr99]

Is this a bad alternator? Can anybody suggest where I get one without going to the dealer...

That would be my guess. Sounds like what happened to me just a couple of weeks ago but my message involved "high voltage" and my car only lasted about 40 kms before most of the power went from my Optima. I didn't have it tested but I suspect that the brushes went on my alternator shorting the diode pack/rectifier. Anyway, replaced the original alternator with a Bosch 140A re-man one from NAPA (re-man in Mexico BTW). 3 year warranty for $345 Canadian. I could have scored a better price from another source or done a low-mileage used one, but the car was sitting 90 minutes away in front of a friend's house so the job had to be done quickly and NAPA had one in hand within 24 hours (which is really good in my neck of the woods).

Good Luck,

Bill

[Nashv70]

is it ok to use an aftermarket alternator on this car? I know they say to use only Volvo parts on this car. The alternator from the dealer is almost double what you get from the auto parts store or even online from some sites. I see them at almost $600 from the volvo parts dealers online too. I can get one from Napa for about $300 or Advance Auto Parts...Any recommendations as far as retailer and what specs on the alternator....How many amps. I'm not doing this myself. My friend is a certified mechanic. I'll let him do it. I know he'll take it off and take it to get it tested.

[billr99]

is it ok to use an aftermarket alternator on this car? I know they say to use only Volvo parts on this car. The alternator from the dealer is almost double what you get from the auto parts store or even online from some sites. I see them at almost $600 from the volvo parts dealers online too. I can get one from Napa for about $300 or Advance Auto Parts...Any recommendations as far as retailer and what specs on the alternator....How many amps. I'm not doing this myself. My friend is a certified mechanic. I'll let him do it. I know he'll take it off and take it to get it tested.
OEM is Bosch and that would be what you would get new as a replacement from the dealer. Most re-man ones (which are the vast majority of what non-dealer sources are offering) use Bosch electronics so ...nearly Bosch? But with that said, guys I know have used Delco re-mans and they have worked OK as well.

As far as amperage, I believe that '01s are the same as '02s which is 120A from the factory. 140A and 160A are available and listed in VIDA as alternative part numbers (probably based upon option packages or special use packages (i.e. police)). Take your pick but I think that the 140A seems to work a bit better than the original 120A but that could all be in my perception.

Cheers,

Bill

[Astro14]

I would recommend these guys: http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-alternator-s60-v70-xc70-al0832x-160a

FCP is a good company, reasonable shipping, quality parts. That one should be close for your car, not cheap, but a good quality unit at half the dealer parts price.

[Nashv70]

Ok, thanks guys. Napa has a Bosch Alternator for about the same price except it is 120 amp. How do I know which one my car needs? I guess I can call the dealer and give them the vin#. Those guys are tired of me by now. Been over there for various little parts. This also says that the voltage regulator is internal. Is that correct?

[billr99]

Ok, thanks guys. Napa has a Bosch Alternator for about the same price except it is 120 amp. How do I know which one my car needs? I guess I can call the dealer and give them the vin#. Those guys are tired of me by now. Been over there for various little parts. This also says that the voltage regulator is internal. Is that correct?

As I said previous, 120A is factory spec for the '01 model year. 140A and 160A are listed by VIDA as optional bits which I have to assume must be part of other option packages that require higher electrical output, such as the police package that is available for the XC. The regulator is part of the alternator (i.e. "internal") on all modern Bosch alternators.

As I also mentioned, I replaced my 120A with a 140A and its works great so take your pick. Both will work fine.

Cheers,

Bill

[Nashv70]

Ok, the 120A is the only one that I can get within a reasonable amount of time. I have an XC and I don't think I have any extra electrical needs in this car. Hopefully I can get this changed out this weekend.

[Nashv70]

I'm just worried about getting one and it doesn't last....I'll try to order the 120A from Napa

[billr99]

I'm just worried about getting one and it doesn't last....I'll try to order the 120A from Napa

There is that fear with just about every major car part you'll ever buy. On the other hand, these things have warranties.

Good Luck,

Bill

[Nashv70]

One more question...how do I know if I need the one with the freestyle pulley? and would you put in an alternator that wasn't made by Bosch. It takes several days to order the Bosch alternator and I'm wondering if the Napa brand would be ok.....I know they have warranties....I guess you are taking a chance anyway like you said.....can't make up my mind....lol

[billr99]

One more question...how do I know if I need the one with the freestyle pulley? and would you put in an alternator that wasn't made by Bosch. It takes several days to order the Bosch alternator and I'm wondering if the Napa brand would be ok.....I know they have warranties....I guess you are taking a chance anyway like you said.....can't make up my mind....lol

More than likely you have an OAP (Overdrive Alternator Pulley). Easy way to check for it is to look at it and if it looks to be flush across the front of the pulley versus recessed than it's a OAP. I can't recall seeing an XC without an OAP but VIDA does say its possible.

So NAPA down your way has their own brand of re-man alternators? Up here, they are all re-man in Mexico and are based upon the OEM manufacturer. That is, the one I bought was a Bosch case with a Bosch regulator pack. One we bought for a Subaru was whatever they use at the factory just re-built. In both cases you couldn't tell the difference from the originals once they were on the car, either is appearance (other than lack of the OEM stickers) or performance. Its not worth the effort to agonize. Weigh the price/availability factors and move on.

Cheers,

Bill

[Astro14]

I wouldn't worry about the OAP pulley. Sure, both my cars had one, but the pulley failed on my T5 last April, so,I just had the shop weld it together. It's been fine since....

[Nashv70]

I'm actually thinking about taking it to a shop here in nashville and see how much they charge to rebuild it. I'll ask my mechanic and see what he says. He wanted to order a rebuild kit but I haven't found one. Either way I'm definitely not paying the $650 that the dealer wants for the alternator. I'll have it taken off tomorrow and tested and then go from there. If it's not the alternator then I'm stumped.

[guymon]

I ordered mine from FCP, installed it, and worked great. That was 2 years ago. Seems to be pretty much OEM. $200 usd

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-alternator-c70-s70-s60-v70-al0805x-120a

[JRL]

I buy used from Erie, about 60 bucks plus they're all guaranteed ....but they don't ship to Canada :(

[billr99]

I buy used from Erie, about 60 bucks plus they're all guaranteed ....but they don't ship to Canada :(

Eire will ship to Canada BUT by the time you consider the exchange rate, shipping charges and sales tax as well as the fact that Customs seems to take their time processing used parts, it starts to be a bit tedious to buy from Eire. Too bad too as the quality of the parts I've gotten from them (when the Canadian dollar was worth more than the US dollar BTW) was excellent and the service was equally as good.

Of course, if you have the ability to do so you can always use one of those border shipping arrangement outfits and run down and pick up your parts in the US but that's a PITA for me.

Cheers,

Bill

[Nashv70]

My mechanic has run into a problem trying to get the belt tensioner off...does anyone know what kind of tool is narrow enough to get there and unscrew that bolt...It's a T50 torx screw that holds it..but the space is very narrow...He's ordered a tool from Snap on but can't get it until tomorrow. We hope that it will work....any suggestions or solutions are appreciated.

[billr99]

My mechanic has run into a problem trying to get the belt tensioner off...does anyone know what kind of tool is narrow enough to get there and unscrew that bolt...It's a T50 torx screw that holds it..but the space is very narrow...He's ordered a tool from Snap on but can't get it until tomorrow. We hope that it will work....any suggestions or solutions are appreciated.

I just use a T-50 socket and a foot long 3/8 breaker bar. A bit fiddly to get the socket in the hole since its a Torx but do-able. In fact, its one of those things that will drive you crazy while you are trying to do it but once you get it, you wonder why it took that long.

Have fun,

Bill

[Astro14]

I ended up buying a new, shorter length 1/2" drive T55 bit...and it's a T55 IIRC, not a T50, though a T50 might be close enough to work...

[billr99]

I ended up buying a new, shorter length 1/2" drive T55 bit...and it's a T55 IIRC, not a T50, though a T50 might be close enough to work...

Hmmm, that's interesting. I just changed out my alternator a couple of weeks ago and I know for certain that on the tensioner I have it was a T50. Can't recall where I got it from or the manufacturer at the moment. Its not the original and, in fact, I think its the third one I've had on the car. I'll have to try and look back in my records.

Cheers,

Bill

[Astro14]

The a Torx size might very well depend on the replacement brand. I think the original Volvo part had a square boss onto which you could fit an open end wrench...then Volvo and the aftermarket changed to the Torx, which makes it hard.

Having just done the belt when I did the cam seals and timing belt, I am certain that I used the T55 bit that I bought expressly for this job.

[Nashv70]

the problem is the socket when attached to the breaker bar is too wide to fit in the space and unscrew the bolt....if you unscrew it there is no way to get the tool out....it would be stuck....we will see today when he gets the specialty tool from snap on

[pelagikos]

FYI. I had great luck replacing just the regulator with brushes, and not the whole alternator. Saved me the cost and the aggravation of trying to figure out which replacement alternator to get.
BTW, the regulator can be replaced without taking the alternator off along with belt, tensioner, etc.

[pelagikos]

regulator: http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-voltage-regulator-bosch-8637851

[Nashv70]

so how do you know if it's just the regulator or the alternator? The car does start and will run but I don't know for how long. when it was tested on the car along with the battery it says it was getting 12 volts. The only way to accurately test the alternator is to take it off the car right? IT would be ideal if we could just do the regulator. Anybody have a link to directions to change it? Thanks

[pelagikos]

The reason I went for regulator first - it has brushes, they naturally wear out. The mileage on your car is about right for that.

Is it possible that the alternator is the cause (specifically, windings or rectifier bridge)? Yes. Is it more probable than the brushes? In my view - no.

You can pull the regulator off and see how the brushes look.

This post has directions on removing the regulator: http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=51058

[pelagikos]

so how do you know if it's just the regulator or the alternator? The car does start and will run but I don't know for how long. when it was tested on the car along with the battery it says it was getting 12 volts. The only way to accurately test the alternator is to take it off the car right? IT would be ideal if we could just do the regulator. Anybody have a link to directions to change it? Thanks

One more thing.

With engine stopped, voltage on a charged battery, without a heavy load, should be in the neighborhood of 12.5 Volts.
With the engine running and the battery being charged, voltage should be in the neighborhood of 14V. If you don't get 14V or so with the car running, your battery is not being charged.

These approximate voltages are the same for any car with 12V circuitry (or just any car, for practical intents and purposes). If you have a meter, measure those on a good car - you'll see.

[billr99]

the problem is the socket when attached to the breaker bar is too wide to fit in the space and unscrew the bolt....if you unscrew it there is no way to get the tool out....it would be stuck....we will see today when he gets the specialty tool from snap on

If you find that you can't get the breaker bar out, simply unbolt the AC hardline that is in the way. It won't move much but it is enough to allow you to remove the bar once it has done its job.

Cheers,

Bill

[Nashv70]

it's not the AC hardline that's in the way...when you put the T50 on the socket or breaker bar it barely fits in the space where you can get it on the bolt at a 90 degree angle....if you unscrew it and it backs out...the end with the socket on it moves out and bumps into the wall on the left side making it impossible to get out because there is not enough width.
As far as the regulator goes...can it be taken to a repair shop that rebuilds alternators.
My mechanic is going to have to fabricate a tool to fit in this space......somehow.

[pelagikos]

it's not the AC hardline that's in the way...when you put the T50 on the socket or breaker bar it barely fits in the space where you can get it on the bolt at a 90 degree angle....if you unscrew it and it backs out...the end with the socket on it moves out and bumps into the wall on the left side making it impossible to get out because there is not enough width.
As far as the regulator goes...can it be taken to a repair shop that rebuilds alternators.
My mechanic is going to have to fabricate a tool to fit in this space......somehow.

The space there is tight but I managed to find a combination of torx head and a wrench that worked. Tried two different T-60 heads (I am pretty sure it was a T-60) and a couple of wrenches from a Craftsman kit, and I am not a mechanic, far from it. I imagine a mechanic would have more different wrenches available around to try with.

Replacing the serpentine belt is a routine maintenance procedure. If every time this is done the mechanics had to manufacture a tool, we'd be hearing it all the time...

The regulator is like fifty bucks from FCP, and replacing it is a fairly straight-forward deal. Why a shop?

[Astro14]

It depends on the length of the Torx sockets. My Craftsman sockets are 1/2" longer than the T55 that I shopped for (NAPA, I think)...and that 1/2" makes the job easy...it's almost impossible with a Craftsman Torx socket.

[Nashv70]

Ok, so my mechanic found a serpentine belt tool that was able to loosen the tensioner bolt and he got the alternator out. I took it to an alternator and starter repair shop and they said it had too much wrong with it to fix it and that I would be better off buying another one. This place is a distributor for Bosch and said they could get me another for $169 with a voltage regulator....sounds good to me. So hopefully we get it on by Saturday and I'll be up and running by Monday. I will let you all know when we get it running. Then I will start another thread about some other minor issues I have.

[Astro14]

$169 seems very reasonable. Particularly if you've seen what the dealer charges....

[Nashv70]

Finally got the new alternator put in and car is running fine so far. I was able to get a new Bosch alternator from an alternator shop here in Nashville for $169. As I said before this place is a Bosch distributor. Now I'll post on some other nagging things going on in this car. Thanks for all your replies.