Geartronic shift into neutral

[John@CdnRockies]

While taking my "final" test drive yesterday, I noticed that the Geartronic seems to shift into neutral (after about 15 seconds) when coasting downhill. I asked the salesperson and he confirmed that Volvo does this for emissions purposes.

If that is the case, how does one manage to use the engine for braking purposes on long downhill slopes? This is an issue for us as we live in the Rocky Mountains with lengthy and steep grades (sure don't want to wear out the brakes&#33http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.

[arejohn]

Move the shift lever to the left.

[gibbons]

A couple of thoughts:

-My salesman didn't know what the click in the throttle pedal was (the one at nearly WOT), so he guessed that it is a switch that turns on the turbo  http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif  In other words, I don't believe anything they say.

-We live in the Rockies also, and drive steep roads to ski resorts regularly.  I have developed a keen sense of which smells are burning transmissions and which are hot brakes as we pass cars coming down.  Brakes are cheaper than transmissions.  

We had the new XC all winter, but drove the Subaru skiing over 25 times, so I haven't experienced the kick out of gear.  But that surprises me.

[XC70Viking]

I tried "locking" into 2nd gear with GT function today and see if it slips out to N. But I guess I didnt find a hill long enough. On other drives I have experienced it in D, and find it a little annoying.

Same problem is also discussed here GT slipping to N (http://www.vvspy.com/w-agora4/view.php?bn=volvospy_newv70c70ubb&key=1080702340&first=1082310224&last=1081828398)

[TrueBlue]

Looking at this post and its replies reminds me that one has to be careful in phrasing the initial problem.

John@CdnRockies says "Geartronic" which has prompted the other John to suggest use the manual override - "Move the shift lever to the left".

Sooo, I now say, had you selected a lower ratio? I and others use this technique somewhat to slow the car down without having to use the brakes continuously, and I've not noticed any freewheel effect. It seems pointless to me to have a manual select if the tranny then freewheels. We don't have mountains over here, merely slight change in grades (in Rockies terms http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ) thus my experiences are not definitive.

If you are using fully auto mode I have seen posts on this board that say the tranny does indeed shift into neutral on light loads in order to improve fuel economy - which is not wholly an emissions issue per se so perhaps the salesman was not quite talking out of his fundament?

I am inclined to agree with Gibbons that brakes are cheaper than trannies, but does perceived wisdom also apply that dictum to manual gearboxes (where downshifting is an OK technique) ?

To misquote a popular saying, If Volvo had intended us not to downshift the gears would they not have given us Geartronic in the first place.

(I expect a storm of protest following this statement&#33http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Meanwhile John@ would you clarify which mode you were in?

Thanks,


Postscript - I have just seen XC70Viking's post (who snuck in while I was formatting my entry) and I am now 'bewildered'. It all works for me - but I do keep my foot on the gas pedal slightly (rather than come off it completely); could that be why I get engine braking and others don't?

[arejohn]

Is it slipping (shifting?) into neutral or is the torque converter unlocking. I think it's the converter unlocking.

[John@CdnRockies]

My thanks to all of you for posting replies.

To clarify for TrueBlue: I kept the vehicle in Drive and did not attempt a forced downshift using the Geartronic. After about 15 seconds, the rev counter dropped to ~1,000 rpm and the downslope momentum accelerated the car.

arejohn, you could be quite right in specifying that the torque converter disengaged. I did not ask that question of the salesman, just noticed that we accelerated. With hindsight, it probably was the torque converter.

Gibbons, I have been on the slopes 42 times thus far - but who is counting? We have another month to go for the season up here but golf is definitely starting to interfere.

XC70Viking, thank you for referring to that "other" site. http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Looks like my timing is off by a factor of 50% (she had it happen after 10 seconds), but at least I'm not dreaming! For everyone's info, the consensus was that the torque converter was releasing and that this is a standard programmed feature in the car.

We have some motivated police officers who delight in picking off individuals who "cruise" in the valleys among our mountains. As the 4 lane roads are fairly straight, it is easy to accelerate a good 40 kms. beyond the posted limit under this scenario.

Irrespective of this glitch, I am confident we will order an XC70 as we have found it an attractive vehicle in all other respects. Hopefully I will soon report that an order has been placed and delivery will take place shortly.

Thanks again for your help.

[XC70Viking]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (arejohn @ April 18 2004,22:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is it slipping (shifting?) into neutral or is the torque converter unlocking. I think it&#39;s the converter unlocking.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Most likely you are right that it &quot;unlocks&quot; and not &quot;shifts in to N&quot;. So to get things strait; It feels like it shifts to neutral, is in my view the same as &quot;the converter unlocking&quot;. This is due to my totally lack of knowledge when it comes to autotranny&#39;s, and it feels like it would shift to N (wich I don&#39;t think it does).

So my point is :Are we discussing the same thing here, or is it two different problems?

I would like to think I could &quot;lock&quot; it in 2nd gear and use the GT as I would with my old manual shift down a hill. I actually thought I could do this, but I guess I have to try it out tomorrow.

I was relived to read TrueBlue&#39;s post, but then he trew in a &quot;but&quot;, &quot;slight pressure on the accelerator&quot; http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif

[John@CdnRockies]

XCViking, I believe that we are speaking of the same thing. My interpretation of the transmission unlocking and shifting into neutral is probably simply the torque converter unlocking. It was just my naivety that I did not realize it. My Nissan is a manual and I have never experienced such a problem with the C320 or Jeep, so this is a new phenomenon for me.

I will look for results of your downshift test using the Geartronic. This would be the logical solution ... slip the shifter to the left and let it carry the vehicle. Let us know how it goes. I am most certainly interested and appreciative.

I had considered the &quot;R&quot; series manual as a more logical choice but unfortunately the seats did not feel as comfortable as the standard XC70. My wife Faye is relieved as I have been known to exaggerate my driving capabilities when it comes to abiding by the speed limit. http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif

It&#39;s great to have this forum. The international cast of contributors is wonderful (I get to Europe quite often but unfortunately never yet to Norway). Perhaps a European delivery when I retire would be the best opportunity, but I&#39;m not quite ready for that yet&#33;

[XC70Viking]

So I have been out on my &quot;considerable less than scientific&quot; testdrive. I am not a mechanic, so please bear with me and hopefully someone with more technical insight can clearify things.

Using automatic it will always &quot;unlock&quot; downhill after a period of 10-15 seconds, so lets talk about the GT (&quot;manual&quot;) function.

When accelerating on level road in, lets say , 3 gear at a point the revs will drop 300-500 rpm&#39;s. This is when transmission &quot;locks&quot; to &quot;direct drive&quot;. Now take the downhill senario starting with high revs decelerating. It will stay in third gear above the point where it shifted to &quot;direct drive&quot; in the acceleration senario. As speed decreases (and rev&#39;s) it will &quot;unlock&quot; like in bottom of the hill.

So my conclusion is that as long the hill is steep enough to keep rev&#39;s/speed above the point where the tranny &quot;locks/unlocks to direct drive&quot;, it will engine break the car. And you dont need to keep accelerator slightly pressed. But if you do keep some accelerator pressed, it will not &quot;unlock to neutral&quot; (not mistake neutral with N position)

This is pretty complicated, but I still don&#39;t have any complaint&#39;s with the GT tranny. I have started to use GT more as the &quot;hesitation&quot; is not a factor then. for city driving etc. The tranny is much more responsive that way.

The XC70 is a great car and I cant wait until it starts to snow again....... http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif

[TrueBlue]

I withdraw my earlier comment about slight pressure on the accelerator - I had put it in, in case my driving style had any bearing on the subject. It is not an issue.

I too have been on an unscientific test drive to see what other features lurk within. Like most owners I haven&#39;t made much use of the manual mode - until reading various threads on this board.

Yesterday evening on my way to choral rehearsal, I thought I&#39;d have a play. I selected 4th. while climbing a hill, and left it in manual while I slowed in traffic. The tranny shifted (automatically) down through the gears as I slowed and changed to &#39;bottom&#39; - (first) when I stopped. There was no engine braking effect; indeed I was doing the slowing with the brakes.

On pulling away &nbsp;I forgot I was in manual - until the engine told me that I really ought to change up&#33;

This is a good and sensible feature when you think about it. It would be very dangerous if you left the car in fourth, stopped or slowed and then wanted some power in a hurry. I guess it&#39;s also there to protect the engine and tranny from damage.

In a similar fashion the box won&#39;t let you change up until an &quot;appropriate&quot; speed is reached.

The above may well be very obvious to you already, but I haven&#39;t noticed any detailed discussion before.

To some extent it&#39;s a shame that manufacturers don&#39;t bother to explain in detail what their products do. This applies to electronics (and others) as well as cars. I suppose the majority are not terribly interested and it only the enthusiast who seeks out web sites like this one.

Do post if anything has been missed&#33;

[XC70Viking]

I told my dealer I never driven a automatic before, and still no explanation on different features with the GT transmission.
So I got this bright idea after totally agreing with TrueBlue. Look in the manual http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/exclamation.gif

It confirms what I found out that there is a &quot;Lock-up&quot; function on 3rd, 4th and 5th gear to aid in fuel saving and engine braking. And it will downshift when revs in your current gear gets low all the way to 1rst.

But you can start in 3rd according to manual (havent tried this, and yes I will try it &nbsp;http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif )

And to use engine braking you must be in the &quot;Lock-up&quot; range. So decelerating towards a crossing it will engine break until it unlocks, then just downshift without more engine braking since revs are now closed to idle (unlocked).

The advatage as I see it with GT in &quot;Manual&quot; is that you don&#39;t get the 3 second hesitation as mentioned in some other tread when you want to take off again.

Ok, atleast things seems clearer to me on this &quot;Unlocking/Lock-up&quot; thing.

Someone want to take on explaining the Adaptive function of the GT?

[geo]

On my XC70 D5 the converter unlocks at about 30M/H (3rd) 40M/H (4TH) and 50M/H (5TH) when overrunning dowhill.
In drive it unlocks at 50 and stays in what &quot;appears to be&quot; neutral &nbsp;until about 5 m/h when 1st kicks in, add throttle and its driving again. Yes it did feel srange at first but it is something one gets used to. &nbsp;I use the manual selector to hold a gear locked in if I feel I need engine to hold the speed on a decent, usually only with a caravan (trailer) on the back, running solo I use the brakes if need be.

[John@CdnRockies]

Just wanted to thank everyone for their comments on the downhill shift issue. The simple remedy seems to be: use the geartronic (left) function to ensure the torque converter does not release. Easy and a suggestion which will be followed&#33;

For the record, a similar query raised on another enthusiast site (not by me) seeems to have deteriorated into a bit of a mild flaming match against Volvo.
http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Always a pleasure to get confirmation that we are frequenting the right place. Thanks again folks.
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