Front end alignment question, need to know which way to go!

[dperry]

2003 XC70 with 205K miles.

Okay, I replaced the inner and outer tie rods today with parts from IPDUSA (Meyle HD). It was fun, and when I finally realized that a pipe wrench works just fine on the inners, its was easy. All four old ones were totally shot btw.
Now I have front alignment issues, specifically camber. The garage I went to for the alignment (Firestone btw) says that I need to replace the 'camber bolts'.
Front Left
Camber -3.5%
Toe 0.23%

Front Right
Camber -3.0%
Toe 0.36%

The toe I think I can 'fix' by lengthening my new outer tie rods, not a problem.
The mechanic at Firestone said to fix the camber I needed 14mm Z Cam XR bolts. Well I find these all over the internet, but no site I can find says they fit my XC70. Is he correct or is it truly something else. I am worried they are way off base. Is it actually the control arm or something?

[JRL]

Springs might be old and collapsed enough that you will get these readings.
Think about it, if the car is lower than it should be you will get more negative camber
At 200K miles the springs ARE worn out even if not broken

[dperry]

Springs might be old and collapsed enough that you will get these readings.
Think about it, if the car is lower than it should be you will get more negative camber
At 200K miles the springs ARE worn out even if not broken

Well, is there any way to check them without removing them? Could there be another reason, i.e. ball joint, strut bearing, control arm bushings? Also, is it weird that both tires are the same really negative camber?

[billr99]

Springs might be old and collapsed enough that you will get these readings.
Think about it, if the car is lower than it should be you will get more negative camber
At 200K miles the springs ARE worn out even if not broken

Boy, I don't know about that. The Eibachs I put on dropped the front nearly 2 in and I only got to about 2 degrees negative. If he is indeed at 3, his springs should be nearly stacked and it would be fairly easy to see that. A lot of these alignment guys are somewhat questionable in expertise now that they have gone "computerized" and I would suggest to the OP that he ask to see the specifics on the car itself. That is, ask the guy to show him where the fault actually is. But at 200K, JRL is right on in suggesting that the springs probably should be replaced. A another possibility is that at some point V70 front struts were used instead of XC struts. They'll throw front camber off by a good bit to the negative.

In any event, camber can be corrected with the stock bolts and just the slop in the strut-to-upright mounting holes if the camber is off by just a degree or so. If you have to correct more than 1 degree use the camber bolts mentioned. Most are made BTW by Ingalls Engineering (http://www.ingallseng.com/35410-12mm-fastcam-adjuster.html) and can be picked up at some NAPA stores. I use them as I like to get the camber right to the most negative in the spec range. I could do it on my '02 with just the stock bolt "slop" but the camber bolts allow you to "dial it" in a bit more precisely. If the NAPA store says they don't have them for the Volvo, try a set for a Nissan Altima; they are the same 14mm size (at least on my XC they are 14mm versus the stated 12mm for V70 - check for proper size with the original stock bolts) and the right length.

Cheers,

Bill

[hoonk]

Could there be another reason, i.e. ball joint, strut bearing, control arm bushings?

The XC's I've seen with camber that far off have had the front struts replaced. With the part # for regular v70's. They bolt on, but the camber is way off. Have your struts been replaced (with the wrong part) ?

[dperry]

The XC's I've seen with camber that far off have had the front struts replaced. With the part # for regular v70's. They bolt on, but the camber is way off. Have your struts been replaced (with the wrong part) ?

I had them replaced about two years ago with struts I bought off IPD. I didn't trust myself at that point to do the job, so I bought them and had a garage do it. I take it there is no way to look at the strut and determine if it is V70? I doubt IPD will go back that far in their records I have immediate access to, but I will ask them to make sure I ordered the right ones back then.

Looks like I am getting the new bolts to see what they will do...

[billr99]

I had them replaced about two years ago with struts I bought off IPD. I didn't trust myself at that point to do the job, so I bought them and had a garage do it. I take it there is no way to look at the strut and determine if it is V70? I doubt IPD will go back that far in their records I have immediate access to, but I will ask them to make sure I ordered the right ones back then.

Looks like I am getting the new bolts to see what they will do...

I'm not totally sure about this but I think that the Sachs XC struts have a red label and the regular V70 ones have a blue label. Otherwise you are looking for the part number stamped on the strut housing.

Cheers,

Bill

[dperry]

I'm not totally sure about this but I think that the Sachs XC struts have a red label and the regular V70 ones have a blue label. Otherwise you are looking for the part number stamped on the strut housing.

Cheers,

Bill

Sweet, I will take a look at the struts tomorrow and see if I can tell.

BTW, how do I check ride height? I assume there is a spec., but I am not sure how to even measure. I will search, but if anyone can throw out an answer that would be great.

[JRL]

There is no spec, every Volvo is a little different but I can measure mine tomorrow, it's too damn cold outside today

[dperry]

There is no spec, every Volvo is a little different but I can measure mine tomorrow, it's too damn cold outside today

That would be great, thanks. Tell me how you are doing the measurements please...

[JRL]

Uh, I forgot, [nonono] sorry
The usual way to measure is from the middle of the center cap to the fender lip

[dperry]

Awesome, thanks.

[JRL]

OK, this is the deal
My ride height measured from the middle of the center cap to the wheel well lip is 17.5" both front and rear, (pictured below).
Saying that mine seems to sit taller than most XCs do.
This picture is from a year ago just after all new struts, shocks and springs were installed.
It looks about the same today.

I would say if you're at least 16.5" you should be within proper height.
(For comparison a V70R measures approx 14.5", at stock ride height)

http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww329/JRL1194/Untitled-1.jpg (http://s732.photobucket.com/user/JRL1194/media/Untitled-1.jpg.html)

[I_am_perfect]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/part-finder/slide-show/2001/Volvo/V70/ref=au_pf_dp_lf_ladp_1_3?ie=UTF8&carId=001&partsNode=318331011

[dperry]

Well, I replaced the top strut bolts with the aftermarket camber bolts, and now have -2 degrees camber both tires, which is close to the spec. I will measure the ride height tomorrow assuming we don't all freeze to death. Thanks!

[JRL]

-2 or minus -.2 ??
BIG difference

(I would wait a day before measuring)

[billr99]

-2 or minus -.2 ??
BIG difference

(I would wait a day before measuring)

Agree 100%. If you are at -.2 then that's fine. In fact, you can go to around -1 and still be OK. If you do go to -2, you'll improve front grip a wee bit, but you'll get a bit more bump steer (for the want of a better term), a bit more sensitivity to uneven grip surfaces (like those shiny asphalt patches), and more tire wear on the inside edge. I tried -2 on my '02 and it was just not as good feeling overall as the -1 I run now. I would suspect that most people wouldn't even notice the handling and feel differences anyway, but they would notice the increased and uneven tire wear.

Cheers,

Bill