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View Full Version : misfiring, tranny shuddering, low voltage error light, clicking solenoid...no start!!



ylwgto
09-15-2013, 03:15 PM
2002 volvo v70xc, 137K

Had extensive tranny work done (replaced valvebody and torque converter) and drove CA to NY no problem. week after arriving in NY car has either misfiring or tranny shudering, not sure which. I have experienced both and cannot tell if it is an ignition or drive-related issue (occurs in all gears, exacerbated under load). idle is a bit choppy too, but all 5 coils and plugs replaced only 15K ago. went to move car yesterday and battery low voltage warning dash light came on (all interior accessories working). tried to turn car over to get battery charging and click, click, click...typical low amp starter solenoid noise. pulled battery to put on my trickle charger and it reads full charge. i am cycling it overnight anyhow. did inspection of starter relay fuse, all starter wires, alternator wires and all ok looking. my question is where to start the diagnoses of this issue(s)?

-have not tested alternator, so maybe bad regulator? but battery seems fully charged, at least enough to run all accessories no problem, so?? do not have a current meter at the moment.
-can low running voltage (ie bad starter and running off battery charge) cause tranny shuddering (because the tranny is basically electronically shifter with solenoids etc)?
-i know a voltage issue can cause misfiring, but all coils and plugs are relatively new and the alternator worked fine then suddenly these issues with no lead in "dimming" etc? weird

i'm at a loss on where to begin. i have limited ability to work on car (but have the skills) due to NYC streets. many friends have has other electrical gremlins due to rats nibbling on this or that. they have been in my compartment for sure (poops and piss is there), but no evidence of any wire chewing that I can see.

i'd appreciate any ideas as the car is a dead duck right now and I need to have it moved ASAP for street cleaning on tues. I'll try the freshly charged battery tomorrow and update if that works, but my hopes are low.

THANK YOU!!!

coflynn
09-16-2013, 05:21 AM
How old is the battery? Issues with low voltage can cause a lot of problems, and if you have too old a battery it may be charging but failing to hold any sort of useful charge...

ylwgto
09-16-2013, 06:31 AM
How old is the battery? Issues with low voltage can cause a lot of problems, and if you have too old a battery it may be charging but failing to hold any sort of useful charge...

battery is a volvo unit. service records say battery replaced in '06 but not sure if same one or not.

ylwgto
09-16-2013, 08:18 AM
so, battery was NOT fully charged. one of my trickle chargers was bad so I swapped the other one in and got the battery fully charged. reinstalled in car and it started fine. still very rough idle, so i suspect a failing coil or fouled plug. also, I am mystified as to why the battery was drained and still suspect a bad alternator (or regulator). what is best method to test alternator output? is there a way to test coil function also? i'd love to avoid moving 1 new coil along the cylinder bank until i find the wonky one.

MacNoob
09-16-2013, 08:52 AM
Put your voltmeter across the battery with the car running - you should read something like 14.5 volts if your alternator and regulator are reasonably happy.

Many auto parts stores around here will run a free electrical system diagnostic for you, or load test your battery (if fully charged) for free.

coflynn
09-16-2013, 10:21 AM
Does the battery go dead w/o actually using the car? If so you might have a bad voltage regulator, see http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=51058 .

For the misfire: the car will register an error code indicating which cylinder the misfire occurred in. You'll need a reader (ideally VIDA but generic one should work). For the system to diagnose it you might need to drive the car w/o accelerating/decelerating to speed up the diagnostics time. That is for example a stretch of highway etc. If the check engine light comes on you can be confident it's saved an error code, although there may be one w/o that light on anyway.

xcbody
09-16-2013, 11:45 AM
Check the earth strap from the transmission to the subframe.
I changed the ring gear on my car a while back and on reassembly I attached this strap but forgot to tighten it.
It took me a while to figure it out but only after I connected every heavy duty battery I could find with all the jumper cables I could lay my hands on!
After removing and installing a transmission (doing all the hard work) it was quite embarrassing to be foiled by a simple earth strap - At least no one else was watching!

Hope this is it

Allen
09-16-2013, 08:42 PM
I had the same issues. Bad battery.

ylwgto
09-16-2013, 09:37 PM
Check the earth strap from the transmission to the subframe.
I changed the ring gear on my car a while back and on reassembly I attached this strap but forgot to tighten it.
It took me a while to figure it out but only after I connected every heavy duty battery I could find with all the jumper cables I could lay my hands on!
After removing and installing a transmission (doing all the hard work) it was quite embarrassing to be foiled by a simple earth strap - At least no one else was watching!

Hope this is it

interesting. where is the earth strap? do i access it from under the car (ie, do i have to remove the belly pan?)
thanks

ylwgto
09-16-2013, 09:39 PM
i have the battery back in the car now and it starts no problem. still a rough idle though. have not tested shuddering issue under load yet...will update

ylwgto
09-16-2013, 09:41 PM
yes, i have had the misfire codes before which prompted me to replace all the coils about 15k ago. now similar symptoms, but no error message?? weird.

i am trying to will it to be not tranny related...

ylwgto
09-16-2013, 09:42 PM
thanks. i'll pick up a meter and teat the current. i sort of hope it is the alternator behind the shuddering issues and not the tranny...
thanks

xcbody
09-17-2013, 11:48 AM
Hi,

Just to follow up on the earth strap location
Its located near the ATF dipstick, I cant seem to attach a photo of it, but,
its quiet a large cable (about the diameter of a jumper cable approx 25mm^2)
its black, and runs along the subframe and connects to the transmission in the area of the dipstick
The cable is visible from the top but you will have to follow it and feel to find the bolt head. Easy to check if is tight.
Hope this helps and hope I figure out how to attach a photo (its a .png but apparently invalid?)
Anyway, best of luck

ylwgto
09-19-2013, 08:03 AM
Hi,

Just to follow up on the earth strap location
Its located near the ATF dipstick, I cant seem to attach a photo of it, but,
its quiet a large cable (about the diameter of a jumper cable approx 25mm^2)
its black, and runs along the subframe and connects to the transmission in the area of the dipstick
The cable is visible from the top but you will have to follow it and feel to find the bolt head. Easy to check if is tight.
Hope this helps and hope I figure out how to attach a photo (its a .png but apparently invalid?)
Anyway, best of luck

thanks. i'll check that today

ylwgto
09-19-2013, 08:05 AM
I had the same issues. Bad battery.

allen,

did those issues you had include the shuddering under load when driving?
thanks

Allen
09-20-2013, 05:35 PM
allen,

did those issues you had include the shuddering under load when driving?
thanks

Yes. A bad battery (or loose terminal connection, or loose ground strap to frame) will cause all kinds of unrelated mayhem.

ylwgto
09-24-2013, 02:14 PM
so, i tested the alternator and battery with a multimeter. 12.3v at battery car off, 14.3 at battery car running. it would seem the alternator is fine. also checked the earth strap ground and both connection points are tight. battery terminal connections tight.

problems persist. is this just a bad battery? car is starting and running, but I do not trust the car to be driven.
are there any acceptable low cost replacements over the volvo batteries?

thanks

Allen
09-25-2013, 03:45 PM
My bad battery read 12.2 volts. The new battery read 12.4 volts. The new batt fixed all of my problems.

Allen
09-25-2013, 03:48 PM
What was funny about my situation is that I disconnected my batt to reinstall the ABS module. Reconnected, and then no start. Just disconnecting and reconnecting zapped my batt. Try disconnecting and reconnecting your batt. Hold the positive and negative terminals together for twenty seconds to clear out the ECU before reconnecting. See what happens.

If you try this, make sure you're sitting in the parking lot of a parts house so you can buy a new battery if you need to.

Allen
09-25-2013, 04:00 PM
Regardless of how well your alt is creating juice, it's only as good as the ground provided by the battery. If the battery is dying, the ground dies with it.

Volky_one
09-30-2013, 08:45 PM
Regardless of how well your alt is creating juice, it's only as good as the ground provided by the battery. If the battery is dying, the ground dies with it. and perhaps if you have the codes, they have to be cleared before car runs okay.

ylwgto
09-30-2013, 09:07 PM
and perhaps if you have the codes, they have to be cleared before car runs okay.

no codes (at least according to dash). I am going to instal a new battery and see if the issues are resolved. 2 questions:

-could there be other codes that need to be cleared despite no dash alert?
-is the hard reset (touch + and - cables while battery is out) really recommended? will it mess up any settings, specifically transmission "knowledge"?

thanks

Allen
09-30-2013, 10:56 PM
I've done it with zero issues.

However, there is a procedure for removing the battery. I think it's as simple as placing the key in position II and leaving it there until you are finished.