Trading In - CEL On :(

[RichS]

I am planning to trade our 2002 XC70 for a 2010 XC70 very soon. As luck would have it, the CEL (check engine light) came on a couple of weeks ago (and has stayed on). Idling is definitely rougher, though the engine seems to run smoothly at highway speeds.

I took the car to my neighborhood indy mechanic who checked error codes, etc. There were many (error codes) but my mechanic was most concerned with a code suggesting a some sort of bad sensor involved with the turbo. ... not sure if it was an air, fuel, temp (etc.) sensor. Sorry, that's all I know. Mike (mechanic) doesn't offer a whole lot of information even when asked. He just gets down to business and was nice enough to stop what he was doing to look at the car.

To rule out the possiblity of a vacuum leak Mike pulled out some test gear ('smoke machine') but after prepping the car for the test, found the machine was not operating properly so we aborted our mission.

At this point I am questioning the wisdom of spending another dime on this car when I am ready to trade it as soon as next week. Repairs won't be a DIY job. I expect to spend $300-$1000 for work to diagnose/replace whatever sensor (assuming no vacuum leak) perhaps spark plugs and items yet to be determined.

The car has ~95K (mostly city) miles on it and was appraised by a dealer for $5k last fall. That was before some bozo left a foot-long impression of his side view mirror near the gas filler[mad2]. I haven't bothered to have the car re-appraised due to the CEL being on. Don't know how that would affect their offer/interest.

I am hesistant to sell privately. The car is due for timing belt service and I fear that other things may need attention as well.

What do you think would be the best way to get the most (net) trade value for this car ... fix or trade as-is?

[Huzer21]

If you can get the codes, post them up. Code for turbo could be as simple as the TCV, which is a very simple task. $60 or so for the TCV, I think.

[Astro14]

So, to avoid a few hundred $$ to fix the CEL (which you haven't completely diagnosed) and $600 to replace the timing belt (if you pay your indy)....you're going to spend, what, $30,000 on a new car?

Yep, spending $25K (the net difference) to avoid a $1K repair, and simultaneously increasing your insurance costs and property taxes, makes good sense to me...eliminating those repair costs by spending $25K on a new car will definitely get you ahead financially - especially since a two year old car requires zero maintenance, like tires, and brakes and oil changes...and a two year old car doesn't depreciate at all...

I wouldn't fix a car that you're going to trade right away, you're going to get hosed on that deal anyway...I would fix a car for private sale, or sell it to a mechanic...but then, this decision of yours isn't based on arithmetic, you've based it on emotion...haven't you?

[KevinR]

If you try to trade your 10 year old car with a CEL on and still on its original timing belt, be prepared for the dealer to put an extremely low value on your car.

[RichS]

If you try to trade your 10 year old car with a CEL on and still on its original timing belt, be prepared for the dealer to put an extremely low value on your car.

Right. So I'm wondering whether it makes sense to invest, say $1000, this car hoping to get "more" at trade-in. It is a waste of effort to put $1000 into the car if it only ups the trade-in by $1000.

[KevinR]

It sounds like you're determined to trade for a newer one, so it probably doesn't make sense for you to repair the one you have.

Without seeing/touching/driving a car, it's hard to put a value on one. It's even harder if you don't know the personality of the used car manager who would be setting the value. If there were no issues with the car, it probably wouldn't appraise for much more than $4000 at this point. However, assuming yours is equipped like most of them and in average condition (other than the damage to the RR quarter) but with a CEL and original timing belt, I'd bet a dealer would put a $2000-ish number on your car.

Remember, this is just one man's opinion. You could always go to a CarMax and get their appraisal for free.

[Astro14]

With the problems on the car, you're going to get very, very little for it. With 95K miles, it's a relatively low mileage car (mine has 159K on it now), so it would sell to someone willing to fix it, who knows Volvos.

But it has body damage, needs a timing belt soon, and runs poorly. Fix the body and the poor running, and it's worth $5K again...that's the value of this thing for a trade in.

It's worth, maybe $1,000 at this point for a trade in. You might get as much as $2K, but not with body damage and driveability problems...the dealer has to pay labor and parts to fix it up to get, what, $6 - 8 K for it retail? So do the math, where's the profit margin in it for him if he gives you anything over $2K?

I would go for private sale - more hassle, but you're going to get more $$ for the car. If you want to trade it in (and you've already chosen your course of action, so the only question is fix it before trading...despite the hosing that you will take...), then you may find that you'll get all the $$ back from fixing it...

But go ask them what it's worth - go ask Car Max. KBB and Edmunds are interesting data points, but your car is only worth what someone else is willing to pay you for it...not what some website or little book says...

[RichS]

Astro, your input is spot-on. For the helluvit I solicited the AutoTrader buying program and was given an offer of "$2576" subject to inspection, of course.

Believe me, I'd keep this car if I could but the average cost of the repairs over the last 18-20 months has been equivalent to a monthly car payment on a nice car. This is to say nothing of the inconvenience of swapping cars (my wife drives the XC), shopping for parts online to save a few bucks, re-scheduling transportation for kids, etc., etc.

From reading these postings, I am aware of things I haven't done (PCV system maintenance ..etc.) ... oh... and the last time I drove the car, I heard/felt clunking in the driveline (as if the transmission were shifting in and out of 'lockup' mode when driving 'straight and level' - constant speed). We only have 45,000 miles on the SECOND transmission....

[Astro14]

Rich - If I had known that you had the trans clunking too, then the discussion would have been different. I would not keep pouring money into a car in that case...the total ownership cost has to include: insurance, depreciation, taxes, interest on a loan, scheduled maintenance and unscheduled maintenance. Only the last bit is unpredictable - all the others can be calculated with relative precision...

What is difficult to calculate as well is the cost of a car out of service. If you look at my sig, there is a spare in there. Cars outnumber drivers by 1. That allows me to be relatively unaffected by a car going down for maintenance...and I have enjoyed being payment free for most of my adult life...using that $$ for other things...like saving up for the next car (though with interest rates lately, there is little advantage in that).

I have a rule of thumb that a car is no longer worth keeping if the repair is over 1/2 the value of the car...and if you're looking at a trans in the future - you're there.

I don't have enough data or experience to calculate the ROI from fixing this one.

But I would say this: you're frustrated with the car and buying a new one. You will resent the $$ you spend fixing it up only to sell it. so...don't fix it...

[SLVRMDL]

IMHO I wouldn't worry about the timing belt issue. If the vehicle does in fact have damage on the rear quarter, most dealers would simply wholesale that vehicle instead of taking the time and investment to repair to make the vehicle lot ready. I would though have the "Check Engine" light turned off before you trade it in.

A used car manager will be more concerned about the light being on more than anything else.

Good luck

[RichS]

A used car manager will be more concerned about the light being on more than anything else.

Right, it's a big red flag, i.e. a car won't pass the emissions inspection with that light on.

My neighborhood Autozone will run a trouble code check for me, so that's what I'll do once my wife brings the car home. Though diagnosis is incomplete, my mechanic believes the turbo is the culprit and the reason why oil consumption has recently dropped. (It was, maybe, a quart every 1000 - or less - miles. Lately, it has stayed level.)

[RichS]

OK, here are the (4) codes/explainations courtesy of Autozone:

P0507 Vacuum leak due to misadjusted or damaged throttle plate or faulty IAC valve

P2096 Post catalyst fuel trim system to lean bank 1 due to vacuum leak, MAF sensor fault, air leak near sensor or failed sensor

P0236 (P0237) Turbocharger boost sensor "A" circuit range/performance (low); open or short circuit due to poor electrical connection or faulty boost sensor

Aside from a vacuum leak, anyone care to speculate on root causes? :confused:

[cattlecar]

The first two will likely be fixed by cleaning the throttle and the MAF, at least to keep it off for trade purposes.
The 3rd and 4th may be taken care of by the MAF cleaning too. I doubt they'll drive it.

[RichS]

The first two will likely be fixed by cleaning the throttle and the MAF, at least to keep it off for trade purposes.
The 3rd and 4th may be taken care of by the MAF cleaning too. I doubt they'll drive it.

The shop I use was very amenable to this suggestion and agreed to clean the MAF (OK, I could have done this :) ), the throttle body and test for vacuum leaks now that their 'smoke machine' is functioning.

I'll report back. Thanks, cattlecar, for the tip [thumbup]

[RichS]

Here's what was done:

1. a handful of vacuum leaks were discovered and repaired. Some bits of tubing were replaced and some silicon sealant around hard plastic intake tubing was applied. A leak caused by a bad gasket at the oil filler cap was replaced.

2. MAF and throttle cleaned as suggested; air filter was replaced.

This cleared all the codes except one. The last code disappeared when the ...

3. MAP (manifold air pressure) sensor was replaced.