Now considering a 1st gen Cross Country

[brider]

I've been a contributor on the 2001-2007 forum for several years after owning a 2003 XC70. I've been looking again for one of that generation, but stumbled across a few early ('98-'99) models that really don't look that bad!

Question: In general, are the concerns for this early incarnation the same as the early ('01-'02) models in terms of transmission/AWD issues, or are the '98/'99 models more bulletproof?

[JRL]

98-2000 are MUCH better cars than 01s and 02s
If you want a seriously nice, low mileage XC, check out my black 99 in the classifieds

[pdlarson]

Ok, this is making me curious, maybe I should start a poll.

I love my Gen1 XC. Every chance I get to speak to a gen2 V70 owner, I ask how they like their car. So far, there is 100% satisfaction and they all would buy one again. One woman was even trying to figure out a way to get her husband to drive hers and then buy her a new one! One guy worked for a company that leases BMWs and Volvos for some of their staff. Their consensus was BMW sucks and they all love the Volvos. Although he did admit that dealer issues could be part of this.

I ask because I am sure at some point I too will be shopping for one. I like the cars Jim has for sale but I am not quite ready or I would already be at his place shopping.

Now as I learn more, I hear comments about avoiding '01 and '02, bad ETM still on '01 and maybe '02 (I don't remember if '02 was included but I think it was) and tranny issues. I had a guy offer me his '01 chocolate brow XC with about 100,000 miles for $10,000. He then told me that he paid a salvage yard to install a different trans from a crashed XC! I knew enough to not be interested in this, I think he is dreaming of $10k.

Anyway, how do we rate the XCs? I mean from best to worst. I am not in the league to be interested in the latest models. Is it something like this:
2003-2008
Gen1
2001-2002, RUN AWAY!

Is there more to it than that?

I guess I am mainly trying to get at two things.

1) If you have owned gen1 AND gen2, not including '01 & '02, which was your favorite and why?

2) inside the gen2 line, is there more to know than to run away from '01 & '02?

In the gen1 line I've read that '98 is a bit different from '99 & '00 (wiring for fog light mod is different for example but I know there are other differences).

Also, I have read that the '00 has differences under the hood too, just little things that are done differently. So is each year of gen1 unique? Is one better than the other?

I had a '88 Subaru Justy and it became IMPOSSIBLE to keep it running. Limited #s sold in North America, hard to find usable parts in salvage yards, even if you do find your part, it is worse than the one you have (hubs) and no more new or aftermarket parts left. After finding some parts are no longer available for my '99 V70, I am starting to be concerned if this will happen to me again. I want to order clear headlights and a R bumper but my luck is when I go to do it, they will have just sold the last ones ever made and no longer be in production. Ok, I do understand that there is more incentive for places such as IPD to make things for Volvos than for anybody to make parts for a POS Justy that is worthless, none left on the road and any owners left have no cash anyway but now I am getting off track and will leave it at that.

[JRL]

We do not have to rehash this all over again (ad neuseum).

For those whose English is lacking:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_nauseam

[pdlarson]

Funny, and yes I get ad nauseam, kicking a dead horse, etc etc...

But for those of us who did not participate in the last nnn discussions on it, have searched, looked at the sticky posts in the right forum, read the FAQs and still didn't see an answer to the questions, any pointers to a consensus on the questions asked here?

I took some time to try to write a couple questions in a way that maybe hadn't been done, add some info that may be of interest to n00bs (yes, I suppose like myself too). My intention is not to waste people's time and certainly not to start any kind of flame war about which gen volvo is better.

[JRL]

Different strokes for different people
I like Gen1's not because they are necessarily better, it's because they have the best automotive seats in the world (FOR ME)!
My back dictates what I drive.

However to make it short, just stay away from 01s and 02s and try to buy the best example you can.
Do your due dillegence, the service history is important and make sure that you have whatever you buy looked at THOROUGHLY by a GOOD Volvo mechanic BEFORE you buy it.
(Or buy from me)!:D

[instarx]

I don't have a problem with your questions. Nor with people discussing it "ad nauseum". In fact I was looking forward to comments about the relative merits of 1st and 2nd Gen Volvos. I know a bit about 1st Gen, but very little about 2nd Gen. I hope comments haven't been cut short.

And "diligence" is spelled d i l i g e n c e, not dillegence. LOL.

[JRL]

I checked and my spell checker said 2 "L"s
(Blame Microsoft)
Actually I just checked again and it says both are right (used both in the same sentence) so I guess it's those young kids who programmed WORD!

[Philvolv]

98-2000 are MUCH better cars than 01s and 02s
If you want a seriously nice, low mileage XC, check out my black 99 in the classifieds

This is timely as I have recently joined the forum as a 01XC owner.Have posted on that section about my repair history. No transmission problems thank goodness and it is approaching 99000 miles.
We previously had a 98XC which was a worst nightmare but it was under dealerwarranty. It was totaled but protected my wife.
There is something but the first generation styling that I prefer and am considering a 2000 XC. I figure since the 98 was the first year more problems are to be expected. So am I correct in thinking that a 2000 would be a somewhat safer choice than the 98's and 99's and for that matter preferable to my 01?

[JRL]

99s and 2000s are 100% identical except for wheels and some minor trim.
Nothing wrong with 98s but they can have some teething problems if you had an early build car.
Most issues were solved with cars built after Jan 1998
(98s came out in May 1997).


(Buy my 99, a near perfect XC, see classifieds)

[pdlarson]

We are on opposite sides of the same coin. I have a '99 V70XC. Whenever I have a chance to speak to a '01+ XC70 driver, I ask how they like their car / would they buy another and everybody always says yes, they love it and would buy another. Only one person mentioned transmission trouble and it was an '01.

I have learned that the 98-00 (P1) V70s are all unique. The '00 has several changes under the hood for that year only. The '98 has some differences from the '99+. I would say those differences are holdovers from the '92-'97 850 which by the time the '98 came out had been a well proven design. So in my mind, the '00 may actually be slightly more troublesome in years to come than the '98 or '99. Not troublesome in terms of reliability but with respect to the simple fact that with a unique engine, made for one year only, parts and advice from those familiar with that EXACT engine will become more limited every day.

Now that is not to say I would stay away from a '00 but if everything else was equal, I would go for the '99.

In the real world, P1s are becoming very hard to find with low mileage, well cared for condition and with service history. You sort of have to take what you can get.

Plan on spending a couple to a few thousand dollars getting a cheap one right or search the classifieds for anything for sale from JRL. I think it would be worth the added cost and the trip / freight to get one that you don't have to make right. If you can turn your own wrenches or have a qualified AND resonable mechanic and the willingness to fix up the car, just be patient, and keep searching forum classifieds and Craigslist, eBay, etc. for a good deal.

Now I am speaking less from experience here and I hope someone corrects me if I am wrong but I think the ETM issues only affected '99-'02 cars so that could be seen as another plus for the '98. Also, I have decided, if / when I look at P2 ('01-'07) XC70s, I will look for no older than '04. My reasoning is this; '01 and '02 have the poorly designed ETMs (same as '99&'00), not sure which years have transmission issues, and I have read that '04-'07 have more comfortable seats than '01-'03. I am totally spoiled by my seats and will not give up that comfort but I'm not a kid anymore so that is more important to me than it may be to you. I have only sat in one '01 but I did not care for the seat.

[pdlarson]

...

I have learned that the 98-00 (P1) V70s are all unique. The '00 has several changes under the hood for that year only. The '98 has some differences from the '99+. I would say those differences are holdovers from the '92-'97 850 which by the time the '98 came out had been a well proven design. So in my mind, the '00 may actually be slightly more troublesome in years to come than the '98 or '99. Not troublesome in terms of reliability but with respect to the simple fact that with a unique engine, made for one year only, parts and advice from those familiar with that EXACT engine will become more limited every day.

...

I must have been typing at the same time as JRL :-) There was no reply to post #9 when I started typing, then I got long-winded and started spouting off about stuff I have read about but not touched. Maybe I was wrong about the 2000 or was that just the 2000 R that had a unique engine. Sorry, if I added any confusion. I am sure there is something unique about some edition of a 2000 MY V70.

[JRL]

2000 V70R is a unique car
Different engine (2.4T high pressure, 261 HP)
Different tranny than any other GEN 1 vehicle, 5 speed AWD automatic

[pdlarson]

Ok, my mistake and thanks for clearing up the mud I stirred up. Always appreciated!

[almostarctic]

@PDLarson

These are P80's not P1's. Lest you incur the wrath of JRL

I love my 99 v70xc. Going to do the sways this weekend (IPD) a new Xemodex ETM (car was jerking around...literally) and try to fix my rear hatch which seems to never want to open. and maybe I'll pick up those Perfos. Where do you find a powder coater that doesn't charge $200 a wheeL!!!!


You car looks awesome. Beautiful ride.
Great cars. Now if only I could shift it...

[pdlarson]

Aw dangit' and I realized this morning in the shower of all places, I kept referring to the latter cars all as XC70s. My Suburban is a GMT800 but I have to be careful because some say GMT830 for the same thing. Thanks for the correction. Well I stand by my facts (ok, not the 2000 / 2000 R part), even if some of the terms were FUBAR'd. ...Always Learning...

I took the wheels to Darrick at Industrial Coating Solutions in Billings Montana 406-256-1124 www.icspowdercoat.com turnaround was quick and cost was $50 each.

Nobody in Billings was qualified / willing to paint wheels. We don't have a chrome shop either. This place is near my office and a guy at a body shop who I know well and trust spoke highly of ICS. Darrick understood my needs, he had just powder coated the bumpers on his FJ to match his charcoal colored wheels.

[pdlarson]

Almostarctic: I forgot to say, thanks for the kind words. I am thrilled with how the wheels turned out. Also, I should mention that powder coaters will expect to receive the wheels with no valve stems / center caps / weights. I didn't think to remove mine but Darrick was cool and didn't mind. He just said that usually that stuff would have already been removed. I didn't have to pay any extra. So the price included removal of weights and valve stems, blasting and the powder coating. I dropped the wheels off on a Monday and picked them up Friday the same week and went straight to have the tires mounted. No curing time on powder. As soon as they are cool to the touch they are done and ok to mount tires on.

I knew I saw the term P1 somewhere before. Here is a post over at VS with an interesting discussion of platforms but I think a few posts may have as much misinformation as my post. I guess I mistakenly thought P1 was specifically the '98-'00. As far as I know, P80 is the larger range of '92-'00. I was wanting to specify only '98-'00. Mainly I was typing on the iPad and switching between alpha and punctuation and numbers sucks so I didn't want to keep typing '98-'00. http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/topic/150837-my-first-850rquestion-about-the-wheels-pics/