Dead battery

[Kny]

Bonjour a tous,

Here is a little question for you all. Before i have the dealer telling me all sorts of things, i would like to get your idea on this.

3 weeks ago, a left for 4 days, came back, started the car no problems.
This week i do the same thing, business trip for 4 days come back.... nothing! http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif No juice what so ever in the car.
Now road side assistance comes and boosts the car. Fine for a day. I do not use the car the day after, and this morning.... can't start the car.
Although this morning there was some juice left, enough to have interior lights and dash warning lights. But when cranked, all i get is a "tick-tick-tick-tick", but no ignition.

Now before you all point out the obvious, like a light left opened, let me tell you that i am 99% sure that nothing was one the first time, and 100% sure the second time around. I checked all light (glove compartment, vanity mirrors, ceiling lights, back one, brake lights that might stick, head lamps). I also turned off the radio, ac and fan.

What else could be draining the battery within 24hrs? The only thing i can think of is a bad connection somewhere that is letting the current flow.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Happy, safe and boosted driving
Kny

[wiz]

It's possible that your battery has been weakened because it hasn't been carefully maintained by your dealer - is it being refilled with distilled water for example? Also it's not necessarily the battery, it could be a either a bad alternator or voltage regulator, have you had those checked?

[Combustion]

hey,

Same problem with my car too so it's not just you. Coastal and will tell you of when it happen the first time. It was the Vancouver get to gether and after a short stay listening to my sub, when we were ready to hit the road, it didnt start. The same tick tick tick sound as you have described. Art ended up jumping that time. It has happened about 3 more times since then. Im taking it to the dealer this week.

Combustion

[Willy]

Hello,
To the best of my knowledge, there are 3 reasons why your battery could be dead.
1) the battery itself, unfilled (as already mentioned), filled but not enough acid, short cell(s) etc.
2) the charging system does not work
3) there is a current leak.
If you have access to a multimeter, you can do some checks.
1) With the engine running idle, measure the voltage of the battery, should be more than 12V. Apply the trottle gently. As the revs get higher,the voltage should rise, up to somewhere above 13.5V and at even higher revs the voltage should stop rising. This test proves that the battery is being charged and that the charging system stops the charge when the battery is full. The measurement is indirect, you should measure current but need a meter that can handle large currents, instead you measure the effect of the current flowing into the battery: the rising voltage).
If you have an alarm with independent horn, disable it now, if not you will probably have a heart attack soon.
2) Stop the engine, disconnect the battery and again measure the voltage of the battery. This should still be above 12V. If not, open the cells and measure them one by one by dropping the pins of the meter in the liquid (not too far down, mind the plates). This should be more than 2V per cell. If one is a lot less, there is a short circuit in that cell. If all are less and they are filled, you could have waterinstead of acid. This test indicates the condition of the battery, of course the outcome depends on the success of the charging test (it is also possible that if your battery has a massive short circuit, the charging system will not be able to get the voltage up, lets assume this is not the case).
If everything is ok so far, you could have a current leak. Disconnect the positive pole af the battery and connect a current meter in series (no large scale is required unless you have a massive short circuit&#33http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif. Note the current, should be very small (clock? mind indoor lighting). If not, take out fuses one by one until the current drops. The problem is then in the circuit of the last fuse removed, the circuits are specified in the owners manual. You could then search the fault within this circuit.
Good luck,
Willy

[coastal]

That's some good information Willy!

Combustion, do you think it might be due to the installation of the new XM unit? Perhaps the system creates a constant drain, either by design or at the fault of the installer? Either that or maybe the sub has a draw somewhere?

Oh, and as far as I know, the ticking is the starter motor trying to turn over without enough juice, used to happen all the time on my VW's.

[Kny]

Thanks for the info  http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

As for a battery not well maintained... the car is barely 2 months old. So either it was a faulty battery to start with or the problem is elswhere. I have no message from the inboard computer stating that it is not charging properly.

My first guess is a leakage somewhere. But i am going to the dealers saturday... i'll keep you posted

Kny

[Combustion]

Coastal,

to answer your question, no i dont think so. It has happent since that has been installed. ive only had XM for a week thus far.

COMBUST

[Kny]

A little up date.

I went to the dealer this morning and nothing wrong on any system.
They did find that the battery was not at maximum charge. The mechanic told me that because of all the little electronic sensors and what have you, idealy you need a battery that is not only charged, but at max charge for the XC.
His take on it is that probably the battery was not at top charge upon delivey and that is what caused the problem.
I am willing to take his word for it... as long as it deosn't do it again.  http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Side note, the same mechanic told me that often when they prep cars that have been seating in the lot for a while, they do have to charge the battery since the internal systems alone manage to suck enough juice to drain it over time.

So that's it for now

Problem solved!

Happy safe and fully charged driving
Kny

[Kny]

All right... problem not solved  http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Drove with it yesterday and this morning.. not enough juice to start it. Only the tick.. tick.. tick sound.

Had a neighbour come over and boost it. Using the method described in the owner's manual, when i connected the last neg to the motor of my car, sparks flew a little. Now it did that as well last time, but i thought that is was because the incompetent towing man connected the two wires to close.
My neighbour mentionned that it should not spark as you connected.
Question: is that true? Because if it is, that would mean that somewhere on the car there is a wrong connection or ground and that could explain the battery drainage.

I am sure it's not something left open. It's gotta be something else.

I'll call back and will pay a visit to the dealer, but in the mean time, any suggestions from the electricians out there?

Btw, i have the regular sound system and nothing extra that would drain more juice out of the battery.

Combustion - Did they ever found out what was wrong with yours?

Until soon i would say

Happy safe and boost free driving
Kny

[Willy]

Hello,
Whenever you connect two electric power sources with different potentials, a current will flow to equalize them (from high to low of wourse). If the difference is large enough this will produce sparks (since cars operate on a low voltage, the currents become large quite easily - after all you could do some welding with a car battery).
I have read the "theory" of the mechanic, I don't find it vey connvincing.
Hope you find it soon,
Willy

[Kny]

Final Update http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

You're gonna like this one....

With out going through all the details of this "saga" here is the final chapter.
Got the car to the dealer (not mine but had no choice - ended up paying for the "curtosy (dunno how you spell it) car" where at my regular dealer, they lend you a car for free.. but that is an other matter).

So they looked and looked, finally to realize that at the load test, something was sucking juice. After a day of searching - with a Volvo tech rep! - they finally found that the stearing wheel electronic module (controls horn, air bag, radio etc) was defective and sucking juice as if the car was on all the time... equivalent of 3 small bulbs.

Tech rep gave his approval and a new one was shipped from Toronto. 2 days later they installed the new one and it now seems to be fine. I shall drive this week end and time should tell if its true. But the load meter test now reads as all other XC do.

So... my first intuition of something in the car draining the battery was right! Of course, in this case everybody told me "its the first time i see this"...

Bottom line, who knows your car better then you do? Nobody! Its a relation of only 2 1/2 months old, but already i know almost all its little noises and clicks and temper. So if i say... there is something wrong... there -is- something wrong http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Have a good week-end, i know i'll take a little drive... just for the fun of it http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

Happy safe and booster-cable-free driving
Kny who is happy to get his car back (boy i hate american mini-vans! http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif )

[Chipshot]

It's often a lot like being a parent, Kny.

[Supertoyz]

In defense of the dealer :-)

Being in the marine service industry I read your post with enthusiasm.  I totally understand your situation and displeasure with your service experience but I'd like to defend your service department by saying that 75% of the time warranty problems like yours are simply customer stupidity.  Your situation was not, but believe me that's rare.  From the dealers perspective they probably sell dozens of these cars every month and never have battery problems other than customers leaving things on.  Your situation sounded like you either had left something on, you had a draw on the battery or the battery wouldn't hold a charge.  I hate dealers as well and I usually go by by the rule that if you want it done right do it yourself.....unfortunatly I occasionally do have to bring an item to the so called professionals and hope for the best...I have many horror storys of incompetant service and repair people as well but I'll spare you that rant.  I do however want to give you a few examples of stupid customers from our point of view behind the service counter.  Customer buys a new boat and asks to have a battery switch installed.  Two weeks later he calls to complain that the engine won't start.  He's got guests waiting to go out on the boat, he just spent a bunch of money on a new boat and it won't start we had better get our asses down their and fix it now blah, blah, blah.  Now for a boat warranty, its paid in the shop only....the customer is responsible for bringing the boat to us.  Your Volvo dealer won't send a mechanic to your house.  Anyway, since the boat is new we send a mechanic down to the customers dock to see what the problem is.....10 seconds later AFTER TURNING THE BATTERY SWITCH ON the boats starts right up.  Customer refuses to pay anything because the boat is under warranty so we lose 1 hour of billable production time from that mechanic.  Another customer had us install a new bilge pump and float switch.  Two weeks later the boat nearly sinks from heavy rains....customer calls us all pissed off, we take two mechanics out of the shop, get a boat, rush to his mooring, pump out the boat, tow it back to the launch and haul it back to the shop for evaluation.  The oil needed to be changed 5 times to get the water out of the engine, the starter and alternator need to be replaced because of water contamination etc.  Why this happened is because shortly after we installed the float switch the customer changed his own oil and left the bilge full of rags to catch any leftover spilled oil.  The rags jammed the float switch on which drained the battery.  Heavy rains came and the boat being unable to pump water with a dead battery nearly sank.  Our bill on the boat came to about $550.  Customer rants and raves that we installed the bilge pump two weeks ago and it didn't work so it's our fault he shouldn't have to pay anything.....what an idiot!  We still haven't been paid.  I could go on and on with other stories, I hate to say it but realisticlly a large percentage of customers are truly stupid people.  They may be brain surgeons or pilots during the week but on the weekends they couldn't figure out how to open a gas cap.  Sorry for the rant but we have all been on the customer side of the counter but I doubt many of you have been on the service side.

[wiz]

Mmmm. Just to add to Supertoyz sentiments, but in a V70XC context, I have a brief tale that I may have related here before, so I'll keep it short.

I had the car at the dealer to get something replaced a few weeks ago, and while I was checking my car in, the woman at the desk next to mine was in the process of being outraged by the clerk, who was telling her that the due service would take 2 & 1/2 hours.

"I don't have that kind of time" she said. "Well, it's a 30,000 mile service..." began the clerk. "Jiffy Lube can change the oil in 15 minutes, I'm going there" she said, picked up the keys and swept out leaving one dumbfounded clerk.

Would you trust the intuition of this customer the next time you saw her?

[Willy]

Hello,
Probmel solved, good thing!
However, I can't find much to the defence of the dealer.
After all, finding out IF there is something draining a battery shouldn't take longer than 5 minutes (for a technician).
Finding WHAT it is can take a whole day, I agree.
Greetings,
Willy

[cbob]

I'm with Willy on this one.
Stick an ammeter in the battery line, the normal current drain from the computer should be well known to any Volvo tech.
Anything drawing "3 bulbs" worth should be instantly apparent.


Michael  http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif

[Kny]

Allo everyone,

Just thought i'd add a little something.
In the previous post, i did not mean to come out against the dealer. Although i agree that the first time around instead of just charging the battery, they could of had a look at the load meter.
But this said, when they did, they did a good job at finding the problem. From what i understand it really was not obvious to pin point the faulty system. They had to unplug systems one by one to eventually get to the right one.

I spoke to the mechanic that work on the car this morning and he said that only a few other dealers had a similar case. He actually had fun working on that one since it was so... mysterious.

I guess i was just upset because of the curtesey car that i had to -rent-.

Anyhow, i think that be now the dealer is starting to know me a little better... should hopefully, believe me next time i mention there is a little something. But i can understand their initial reaction to "we are idiot". I saw while i was there a lady complaining that her head lights did not work only to have point out that she should not leave her light selector to the position light position...duh!

Well that's all

Yup yup all
Kny