Help the Newbie!

[twinkletoes807]

Hi all! I'm new to this site and new to the Volvo family. I purchased a used 2002 V70XC Turbo AWD in July 2011. Currently, I have about 95,000 miles on it. I've always loved the look of Volvos and the track record for safety, so I decided to go for the classic wagon after I became a mommy. :) I'm the second owner and drive to/from work almost all highway miles- about 2000 hwy per month, about 250 local streets per month. I've had a few issues so far and I need to get my girl into the shop soon. But, I also don't want to be taken by the Volvo guy due to being a clueless Volvo owner and/or female (which does happen) and I don't want to go to a dealership. So, I was hoping I could share my list of issues/concerns and if anyone has any insight as to what each may be, just so I don't feel totally clueless when I go to get her fixed, I'd be very appreciative. I'd love to show the mechanic that I have a little knowledge. Thanks in advance if you are able to help! :D

1. Starting issue: ended up getting the car towed to a local mechanic due to its failure to start. Crank position sensor was replaced. A month or so later, I still have issues with starting and sometimes need to do it a couple of times to get it fully engaged. When I have a start failure, the Reduced Engine Performance light and yellow triangle comes on, but goes away after I get moving.

2. Loud hissing from the brake area when I am not pressing the brake. It will stop hissing intermittenly, but for the most part it is constant. I've read on this site that it may be the brake booster. Is that the only thing that causes this?

3. When I put my car in drive, there is a 1-2 second lapse before it kicks into gear. And when it does get in gear, it's a big jolt. I've always driven a stick, so automatic transmissions are kinda new to me. Also, once, maybe twice when I was driving down a local street, I've noticed that the engine raced though I wasn't applying more gas. And lastly, I find the shifting overall at higher speeds to be a little rough. Sometimes when I am driving 60mph and am increasing speed, the RPMs will go over 3000rpms (and I can hear the engine whining a bit) and then kick low. I had been used to looking at the tachometer since I always drove stick, but with an automatic, I find this to be an unusual occurrence. Though I know this isn't normal, PLEASE tell me that from what I'm describing I don't need a new tranny!

4. This one is a bit hard to describe, so please bear with me! As I've said, I drive 500 miles per week to and from work. I usually go about 80mph on the highway. There have been times when I feel as though the car is slipping. Kind of like when you hit a patch of ice, and though you are steering straight, the wheels feel as though they are not really going straight. Does that make sense to anyone?! lol

That's all I can think of right now. Which is enough, I'm sure. If anyone is also able to give a ballpark as to how much I'd be looking at to fix all of these quirks, that'd be great too. When I write it all on paper, I wonder if maybe I should just sell it, esp. if I need a new tranny. Thanks for reading if you've gotten this far!! [thumbup]

[Cyrus]

Sell it NOW! [thumbup]
Sounds like you need a new brake booster, ETM and a transmission....so I'd say get ready to shell out 6 grand retail....ouch!

[twinkletoes807]

Sell it NOW! [thumbup]

Oh noooooo! Really? :(

[JRL]

Unfortunately I agree.
You have a bad year (01-02) and the issues you're describing do not sound promising...

[Cyrus]

Give it a bath, change the transmission fluid, 1 bottle of fuel injection cleaner, 5 gallons of high test gas and drive it to the closest dealer that has the car you want. (Thats what I did) [cool2]

[twinkletoes807]

Sell it NOW! [thumbup]
Sounds like you need a new brake booster, ETM and a transmission....so I'd say get ready to shell out 6 grand retail....ouch!


What does ETM stand for? Also, could it be that I may only need a new B4 Servo Cover or a Transmission Fluid flush? Or am I just kidding myself and making excuses. :confused:

[Cyrus]

Electronic Throttle Module, Yes your kidding yourself....I did the b4 and drained and filled my Trans 10 times and mine wasn't as bad as yours sounds. I loved that car....but sometime love hurts!:o

[twinkletoes807]

Electronic Throttle Module, Yes your kidding yourself....I did the b4 and drained and filled my Trans 10 times and mine wasn't as bad as yours sounds. I loved that car....but sometime love hurts!:o

Wow. This totally blows. Thanks so much for your input. :'(

[Cyrus]

Does it shift fine when its cold?, When the fluid gets warm the viscosity lessens and bang its all out of wack. I will tell you this.... if you drain and fill the trans a few times with the correct fluid (Mobil 3309) or Toyota T-IV you may see improvement but this might just be short lived... have you inspected the color of the fluid yet? Do you know who had this car before you?

[howardc64]

What does ETM stand for? Also, could it be that I may only need a new B4 Servo Cover or a Transmission Fluid flush? Or am I just kidding myself and making excuses. :confused:

ETM=Electronic Throttle Module. Your gas pedal is not connected to the throttle by a cable like old cars. Gas pedal measures the pedal rotations applied by your foot and send electronic signals to rotate the throttle.

Your have a 2002 with 95k miles. ETM failures were common on 2001s and was redesigned in 2002. You may not have a problem here.

Unfortunately, you are having the classic signs (bang into gear after delay when shift to D, engine rev without forward momentum (flair)) of severe transmission internal problems (likely valve body) on this car. Its hard to say if any fixes to the transmission will fix it. If you need a transmission replacement or rebuild, you are looking at probably $4-$6k :( Here is a link of the cheap fixes but definitely no guarantees. From your description, valve body replacement might have a chance of fix it (probably $2500) but it isn't clear if your transmission is too far gone beyond the valve body

http://www.freewebs.com/howardsvolvos/driveline.htm

Hissing is the brake booster going. Probably $650 job if you avoid high part mark up. Here is the lowest part price I found online

http://www.trademotion.com/parts/2002/VOLVO/V70/X/C/?siteid=216970&vehicleid=1389371&section=BRAKES&group=HYDRAULIC%20SYSTEM&subgroup=HYDRAULIC%20SYSTEM&component=BRAKE%20BOOSTER

Here is an aftermarket part for $214 if you don't have DSTC (dynamic stability traction control)

http://www.swedishautoparts.com/XC70/volvo-xc70-brake-pads-rotors-and-related.html

Need to check with your (hopefully Volvo independent) mechanic if they will install your own purchased parts (including aftermarket) to avoid part price mark ups.

Good luck

[twinkletoes807]

Does it shift fine when its cold?, When the fluid gets warm the viscosity lessens and bang its all out of wack. I will tell you this.... if you drain and fill the trans a few times with the correct fluid (Mobil 3309) or Toyota T-IV you may see improvement but this might just be short lived... have you inspected the color of the fluid yet? Do you know who had this car before you?

I haven't really noticed a marked difference in shifting when it's cold vs. warm. But we did have the mildest winter ever here on Long Island (only snowed an inch once in October). I have not inspected the fluid color yet. Can I do that easily? And from the records I obtained when buying the car from a dealer, an older woman was the original owner. I would have to look if she did all of the maintenance required since I don't recall reading that she had. I would guess that she didn't go above and beyond oil changes. She leased it and then bought it off her lease.

[twinkletoes807]

ETM=Electronic Throttle Module. Your gas pedal is not connected to the throttle by a cable like old cars. Gas pedal measures the pedal rotations applied by your foot and send electronic signals to rotate the throttle.

Your have a 2002 with 95k miles. ETM failures were common on 2001s and was redesigned in 2002. You may not have a problem here.

Unfortunately, you are having the classic signs (bang into gear after delay when shift to D, engine rev without forward momentum (flair)) of severe transmission internal problems (likely valve body) on this car. Its hard to say if any fixes to the transmission will fix it. If you need a transmission replacement or rebuild, you are looking at probably $4-$6k :( Here is a link of the cheap fixes but definitely no guarantees. From your description, valve body replacement might have a chance of fix it (probably $2500) but it isn't clear if your transmission is too far gone beyond the valve body

http://www.freewebs.com/howardsvolvos/driveline.htm

Hissing is the brake booster going. Probably $650 job if you avoid high part mark up. Here is the lowest part price I found online

http://www.trademotion.com/parts/2002/VOLVO/V70/X/C/?siteid=216970&vehicleid=1389371&section=BRAKES&group=HYDRAULIC%20SYSTEM&subgroup=HYDRAULIC%20SYSTEM&component=BRAKE%20BOOSTER

Here is an aftermarket part for $214 if you don't have DSTC (dynamic stability traction control)

http://www.swedishautoparts.com/XC70/volvo-xc70-brake-pads-rotors-and-related.html

Need to check with your (hopefully Volvo independent) mechanic if they will install your own purchased parts (including aftermarket) to avoid part price mark ups.

Good luck

Thanks so much for all of the info and links Howard! I will check them out and educate myself. I hope you are right and the ETM isn't an issue. And I will definitely talk to the Volvo mechanic about supplying my own parts. He is an independent mechanic that was Volvo trained but has his own shop. :) I will also look into the value body replacement and discuss that as a possible replacement with the mechanic.

Another question: I think I also noticed tighter steering, possibly when braking. Would the need for a brake booster have an effect on power steering?

Maybe I was ignorant, but I truly thought that by buying a Volvo, I would have a quality car that would last me for many years. I always leased Hondas, and never had a 10+ year old car (except for my first car). And I am actually financing this car (bought for $10k, owe about $6500). I'm so nauseous right now, but am very thankful for all of the knowledgeable feedback you all have given me. Thanks so much.

[Ars Gladius]

bought for $10k

Good god, the year is only worth $4-5k average condition, and with the problems you're describing, way way less then that.

I'm so sorry you ended up with this. :(

Was it private sale or dealer? I hope for your sake there is some recourse you can take.

[howardc64]

Thanks so much for all of the info and links Howard! I will check them out and educate myself. I hope you are right and the ETM isn't an issue. And I will definitely talk to the Volvo mechanic about supplying my own parts. He is an independent mechanic that was Volvo trained but has his own shop. :) I will also look into the value body replacement and discuss that as a possible replacement with the mechanic.

Another question: I think I also noticed tighter steering, possibly when braking. Would the need for a brake booster have an effect on power steering?

Maybe I was ignorant, but I truly thought that by buying a Volvo, I would have a quality car that would last me for many years. I always leased Hondas, and never had a 10+ year old car (except for my first car). And I am actually financing this car (bought for $10k, owe about $6500). I'm so nauseous right now, but am very thankful for all of the knowledgeable feedback you all have given me. Thanks so much.

A few questions, did you buy it from a Volvo dealer? did you notice the transmission problems right away after you bought it? did you ask the dealership about these problems and therefore have records? These transmission problems don't creep up on you. There should have been plenty of warning signs since first day of your ownership. If it is a Volvo dealer, they may provide good will and chip in some repair cost. Volvo also have regional reps with the power to provide good wills to customers. They have both heard plenty about these transmission problems. It is common.

On tight steering, it should be unrelated to the brake booster as they are completely different systems. Brake booster is powered by engine vacuum while and steering is powered by hydraulic fluid pump that spins as the engine turns.

Volvo built a solid reliability record in the 200 series car that last sold 20 years ago. This is the source of your reliability impression. But the cars from last 20 years are more typical of European car maintenance which unfortunately is quite a bit pricier than typical Hondas or Toyotas. If you have been leasing Hondas, you are likely going to be shocked at the change in maintenance costs comparing to a 100k mile modern European car (quite a few repair items pop up on Euro cars around 100k miles). The car is gorgeous like most European cars but also have expensive weak points like most European cars :(

Your biggest immediate repair cost is the transmission. Hope you got the car at a first rate dealer and check if they will provide any good will for a problem that was surely there when you first bought it.

[Leto Atreides II]

Even if it's from a dealer, it's now been 8 months since the car was purchased... :( Doesn't hurt to ask though, I guess.

[twinkletoes807]

Good god, the year is only worth $4-5k average condition, and with the problems you're describing, way way less then that.

I'm so sorry you ended up with this. :(

Was it private sale or dealer? I hope for your sake there is some recourse you can take.

Maybe prices are better in Canada but in July 2011 my car was listing in KBB and other sites that I checked, for about $10K here in NY. I did buy it from a Volvo dealer. I doubt they'd do anything about it now. Plus I've put a lot of miles on it since my purchase (about 16,000).

[twinkletoes807]

A few questions, did you buy it from a Volvo dealer? did you notice the transmission problems right away after you bought it? did you ask the dealership about these problems and therefore have records? These transmission problems don't creep up on you. There should have been plenty of warning signs since first day of your ownership. If it is a Volvo dealer, they may provide good will and chip in some repair cost. Volvo also have regional reps with the power to provide good wills to customers. They have both heard plenty about these transmission problems. It is common.

On tight steering, it should be unrelated to the brake booster as they are completely different systems. Brake booster is powered by engine vacuum while and steering is powered by hydraulic fluid pump that spins as the engine turns.

Volvo built a solid reliability record in the 200 series car that last sold 20 years ago. This is the source of your reliability impression. But the cars from last 20 years are more typical of European car maintenance which unfortunately is quite a bit pricier than typical Hondas or Toyotas. If you have been leasing Hondas, you are likely going to be shocked at the change in maintenance costs comparing to a 100k mile modern European car (quite a few repair items pop up on Euro cars around 100k miles). The car is gorgeous like most European cars but also have expensive weak points like most European cars :(

Your biggest immediate repair cost is the transmission. Hope you got the car at a first rate dealer and check if they will provide any good will for a problem that was surely there when you first bought it.

I think I'm sh$t outta luck here to be honest. I guess I should've just stuck with a Honda, that are everywhere and therefore sooo much cheaper to fix. I just wanted to have a car that I felt was safe in a crash and made me proud to drive it.

My plan now is to bring it to the mechanic and find out exactly what is wrong. At the least I'm guessing I should fix the brake booster, since it is very loud as soon as you turn on the car, and who would want to buy it then? I'm so bummed. I really love my car buy I don't have $5000 laying around to put in it, while crossing my fingers that something else major doesn't go wrong! :(

[JRL]

You NEVER go by KBB, it's the most screwed up, highest book on the planet and I'm sorry but you did pay way too much

[twinkletoes807]

You NEVER go by KBB, it's the most screwed up, highest book on the planet and I'm sorry but you did pay way too much

Well, you all would definitely know better than I would since this is my first Volvo, but honestly, there were several XC V70 AWDs, 1998-2004 on the market at the time that I was buying and the dealers were asking $7500 and up. Regardless, it's a moot point now. I guess I got taken, and there isn't anything I can do about it. I'm still waiting to win the lottery so I can go buy myself a brand new Volvo wagon. :D

[Astro14]

C'est la Vie...and really...it matters little at this point. At this point, you want to figure out the best course of action going forward...

And part of that best course is finding a good indie mechanic who can work on the car. Just enjoy the car...what's past is past...

I just drove my T5 (my wife has the XC, and drives it every day) from Virginia Beach - DC - Vermont - New Haven, CT in 2 days of driving, over 1,000 miles...there are very few cars that match its combination of ergonomics, economy, capacity and safety...the XC (or the T5) makes road-tripping a pleasure...

[JRL]

A good 98-2000 is worth more than an 01 or an 02
Many people (like myself) love that generation while 01s were plaqued with multiplpe major issues and 02s are just a bit better.
These did not become decent cars until 2003 but you won't find many 2003s, (short model year), so then you go to 2004, a good year (04-07 are all pretty good) but you will pay more.

I just bought this 04XC with 83000 miles and will be for sale soon.

[Astro14]

Good perspective...that '98-'00 was based on the 850 platform, and my 850 wagon was an exceptionally reliable car...no real issues or problems, it needed oil changes, tires and brakes, nothing more (OK, I added Bilstein shocks and struts), right up to its demise with 185,000+ on it (the Caddy won...).

I like the slightly more boxy look of that generation as well...

[sjonnie]

I haven't really noticed a marked difference in shifting when it's cold vs. warm.
That's odd because the shift patterns of the gearbox are quite different when it's cold vs warm. When cold it will hold 2nd gear up to about 3,000rpm and the 3rd gear when it does engage can be quite harsh.

I don't think anyone can give a very accurate diagnosis of a transmission with 10yr old fluid in it. I should flush it at least twice before making any long term decisions about the state of the transmission. Installing a Magnefine filter will also help clean up some of the mess that has no doubt accumulated inside the transmission.

[howardc64]

Thinking about what is the best advice to give to the OP... Here my are my thoughts

Since OP isn't a DIY, the first step is to find a good indy mechanic so she can receive trusted advise from a mechanic. Here is how to do that

- yelp.com and google review is your friend. In my experience. Good shops always get good rating. Bad shops always gets bad rating. Once there is 5+ reviews or so, it is becoming statistically valid. Maybe a red herring here and there but most of the comments will match up.

Whenever owner is the mechanic and the shop have been around awhile. It is usually a good sign.

Whenever they specialize in Volvos. It is usually a good sign.

Shop's online website reveal that shop employs enthusiasts for the particular type of car. Here is an example of a Subaru independent where I live that provides extensive online info for enthusiasts.

http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-head-gasket-problems-explained/

Don't let "we work on Volvos only" message sway you. I have a local Volvo's only shop that has a long list of horror stories. As it turns out, the owners aren't mechanics. They were just seeking to be in a underserved market.

yelp.com, google reviews and the "about us" section of shop's online websites will reveal these type of info.

Here is an example Volvo shop I went to. You can see their website + yelp.com + google rating. I'm not advertising for them but thought I point the OP at what to look for when seeking out an Indy.

http://www.t-scandiamotors.com/about.html
http://www.yelp.com/biz/t-scandia-motors-tigard
http://maps.google.com/maps/place?client=safari&rls=en&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=t+scandia+motors&fb=1&gl=us&hq=t+scandia+motors&cid=2482278147337574256&ei=axpmT8z4EYibiQKY3cyjDw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=placepage-link&resnum=1&ved=0CEgQ4gkwAA

The owner is the head mechanic and have loved and worked on Scandinavian cars for over 20 years. I got a good laugh out of printing a coupon in the form of a swedish krona (their currency) from their older website :D

Similarly, I took my mother in laws Subaru to a Suby shop. Here is what online info revealed about them

http://www.fixmysuby.com/
http://www.yelp.com/biz/superior-import-repair-portland

Once again, 2 mechanics are the owner and his father.

If you provide your zip code, I'll be glad to do some online poking around for you to help find a reputable Volvo indy around you.

This is probably the first step which would give you the repair cost just ahead. Beyond this, I don't want to scare you away but the reality is there will likely additional repair costs in the next couple of years after getting through these initial issues. Ultimately, you'll have to weigh whether to go back to leasing new Hondas given the repair costs involved with your 100k miles early model year European car.

[twinkletoes807]

A good 98-2000 is worth more than an 01 or an 02
Many people (like myself) love that generation while 01s were plaqued with multiplpe major issues and 02s are just a bit better.
These did not become decent cars until 2003 but you won't find many 2003s, (short model year), so then you go to 2004, a good year (04-07 are all pretty good) but you will pay more.

I just bought this 04XC with 83000 miles and will be for sale soon.


Good perspective...that '98-'00 was based on the 850 platform, and my 850 wagon was an exceptionally reliable car...no real issues or problems, it needed oil changes, tires and brakes, nothing more (OK, I added Bilstein shocks and struts), right up to its demise with 185,000+ on it (the Caddy won...).

I like the slightly more boxy look of that generation as well...

Ugh! I wish I knew of this site to ask questions BEFORE I made my purchase. I was actually two minutes away from buying a 1998 V70XC (the dealer had already put the plates on!) but dropped the deal when my dad called me about the 2002. I stupidly assumed that a more recent year and slightly lower mileage would've been better! Ugh, I'm an ass!! :(

[twinkletoes807]

That's odd because the shift patterns of the gearbox are quite different when it's cold vs warm. When cold it will hold 2nd gear up to about 3,000rpm and the 3rd gear when it does engage can be quite harsh.

I don't think anyone can give a very accurate diagnosis of a transmission with 10yr old fluid in it. I should flush it at least twice before making any long term decisions about the state of the transmission. Installing a Magnefine filter will also help clean up some of the mess that has no doubt accumulated inside the transmission.

Thanks for the feedback! I am definitely going to do a transmission flush once or twice and see what happens. And I'm definitely getting the brake booster fixed. I will also talk to the mechanic about your idea of installing a Magnefine filter. Thanks again! [happy]

[n00bkiller944]

10k holy poop. Not to add insult to injury but always do your research before buying a car! Even a simple KBB search would have saved you a few grand!

[twinkletoes807]

10k holy poop. Not to add insult to injury but always do your research before buying a car! Even a simple KBB search would have saved you a few grand!


Actually, it was more like $9800 or something like that, but as I've stated above, I did look at KBB and a few others (NADAguides and edmunds.) For a 2002 V70 XC Turbo AWD with 79,000 miles in excellent condition (which is what I thought it was) went for about $10,000 in July 2011, here on Long Island, NY.

FTR- for my own sanity since several posters indicated that I was crazy to pay what I did, I just checked NADA and Edmunds again, inputting the original miles the car had when I purchased it (79,000), with all of the options checked off, keeping in mind that it is also 9 months later (2002-June 2011 vs. March 2012) and the Retail value of a Clean/Excellent condition is still about $9500.