Need Advice: Stalling, "Missing", Power loss

[bornn]

Ladies and Gents,

I seek any advice or thoughts you may have on a problem with my XC.

I own a 2005 XC70 purchased new and meticulously maintained. 80,000 miles, all factory reccd service done under waranty and after waranty, done by me. I run synthetic and really try to take care of the car.

About 2-3 months ago my wife and mother were driving the car at road speed and experienced a loss of power and hesitating. It occurred again about a week later for my mother and father in the car and this time resulted in a loss of power, hesitating, and finally a stall when reaching a traffic light. The first occurrence was after the car was warm, about 20 minutes into a drive. The second instance was just after start on a somewhat colder day.

Since these two occurrences, I have had it happen to me while driving. One of the times it occurred twice after the car was warmed up and at driving speed. The car started to lose power, RPMs dropped, I feathered the accelerator to try and keep it running, and after stopping the foot action it stalled on the side of the road. Turned the ignition all the way off, restarted, continued on and it happened a second time. Same symptoms. I did the same actions, and drove it to the destination with a few more momentary blips of problem. Shut it off. Drove it home a few hours later with no issues.

In addition to the engine related issue, I have also had the Starter Immobilizer issue "Start Prohibited Try Again". Usually clears by turning ignition off and back on again.

Here is what I have done so far and the results:

I had my Volvo Mechanic pull the error codes off the car and he came up with ECM710B Immobilizer Comm Missing, ECM291D Fuel Pump Control Module signal too low, ECM291B Fuel Pump Control Module Signal Missing, CEM9C03 antenna light ring signal missing, CEM6c49 Transponder comm faulty signal, CEM6c48 transponder type faulty signal.

I took the car to my local Volvo dealer and had the complimentary software updates done on the car. Volvo tech journal references a software bug for causing the start immobilizer problem. I also hoped the software would fix the power loss and stalling problem.

After the software flash both problems resurfaced. The Start Immobilizer issue would come up after sitting in a parking lot with the ignition in position one listening to the radio and then going right into a start-up from that position. I would turn the key all the way off and start normally on the second try.

The power loss continued to occur at random intervals. Sometimes the car seemed to idle rough, sometimes it would almost "miss/stall" for a momentary second while driving.

After talking with the Volvo dealer mechanic who performed the software update, I decided to replace the Fuel Pump Control Module (PEM) per the Volvo 23-32 4/30/2008 Service Bulletin which replaces the module underneath the car with a new one located near the spare tire in the rear compartment as I felt this was likely the culprit of the problem. His advice right after doing the software flash was to see if the new software fixes the issue, and if not, consider doing the control module for the fuel pump. The original factory part was mounted underneath the car and exposed to moisture, temperatures, etc. It was a straight forward job and I had no problems completing it.

Last night I drove the car after making the PEM replacement and for the outbound trip, it ran flawlessly. Coming back, the same hesitating, power loss, momentary "missing" happened again. (Back to the drawing board!) My father and I own two Volvo XCs, his a 2006. We discussed the problem and researched more this morning and read a bunch on all of the Electronic Throttle Module issues with the early 2000 Volvos. I had asked the dealer about this during my visit, but he told me, in his experience, my model year did not suffer from these problems. Still, after reading a bunch of kindly published information, I had a hunch that the ETM or Mass Air Flow Meter MAF was a likely culprit. Neither of these seem to throw off or generate error codes either!

To trouble shoot the MAF, we switched MAFs between our cars this morning (same identical part) and went out for a two ship test drive. Sadly I was still able to duplicate my power problems by coasting for a bit and then coming hard on to the accelerator. The car would momentarily jerk or lose power during the acceleration. It was also idling rough which was noticeable on the RPM gauge and by listening to the muffler.

Next, I went ahead a garaged the car and took off the ETM and cleaned it thoroughly with carb cleaner and a tooth brush. I had read about dealers performing this work as a potential fix. Most of the authors seemed pretty skeptical.... After the replacement of the cleaned ETM (which was dirty), the car is still idling a bit rough. It has not had the loss of power, stalling , or other symptoms yet, but realistically, I am waiting for it to happen. I am skeptical that the cleaning fixed the problem.

The only other data I can provide is that as part of the recent factory rccd maintenance work I did replace the plugs. I did not replace the plug wires, fuel filter, vac hoses, etc. as they "appeared" to be in good shape.

I am starting to be at a loss as to the cause of my loss of power issues. I am obviously hesitant to outright replace the ETM due to the cost. (It also burns me up that I can easily do the install myself but the dealer has to flash the software....)

Do you feel it could be related to the start inhibit, immobilizer problem? Could a lose antenna ring cause ignition cancel signals to be generated? the immobilizer issues never "shows" itself while the loss of power problem is occuring?

I have thought of vacuum leaks but felt those might be present full time, or at least every time a hard power input is made?

What would you do at this point? What other ideas do you have to check, perform, do?

Many thanks.

[Cyrus]

Ohm test the coil packs, they fall like dominos. When warmed up is when they start to show signs of failure. ( your car does not have wires)[thumbup]

[bornn]

Duhh! Yeah I guess I have cross pollination contamination on my brain from wrenching my pathfinder too! It has wires [cool2]

I can ohm test the coils. I have not noticed before, but was under the assumption that the XC70 has one coil for all the plugs or does it have one for each plug?

What resistance number or range am I looking for?

[Cyrus]

One for each and call your local Autozone and see if your coil packs are listed in their test guide...this is where you will find the resistance numbers or perhaps one of the elders here have that info ready to post?

[Astro14]

I've had one coil fail - it was on the T-5, no. 2 or 3 - and it set the CEL, so I was able to narrow down the cylinder very easily. When I pulled the coil to check, it was obvious that it had failed since the oil from the transformer had leaked down the plug socket...I put a new one in, problem solved.

Is the CEL on?

[dpaton]

I would check those plugs gaps if it was me and my 05 seems to like only a few plug types (seems to be related to running 87 gas with ethanol and few other plugs types seem to be recommended with the turbo).

You can never go wrong with Volvo plugs but they are more $$$.

You can also purchase a single coil and cycle it through each spot.

Coil breakdown may not throw a CEL.

[MacNoob]

If this were my good ole Saab I would have the battery tested (old/weak battery can cause a host of wierd electrical problems) then think about a broken fuel pump. Longer shot would be a crank position sensor (don't know what the XC uses for that).

[bornn]

Hi guys. I have progressed further in my trouble shooting.

After cleaning the ETM the car did not show the problem again, however, I was skeptical, and worked on the car yesterday.

First I checked the battery at the engine hot post. With car turned off read right at 12 volts. With car running, read 13-14 showing alternator was charging. (As a side note, I always thought a good battery would be at around 12.2-12.4 at rest?)

As rccd, I removed and checked each coil with a voltmeter measuring Ohms. All coils checked out with uniform readings and no signs of cracking or damage. Pulled all the plugs (which were by the way Volvo OEM plugs I had replaced) and no signs of of wear, bad coloration, or not firing.

Next, I pulled and reseated every fuse that was applicable to engine/power operation. I also reseated all of the injector electronic plugs.

Next, I examined every vacuum hose, pipe, and connection in the engine with a mirror and light. Nothing.

Last, to trouble shoot a sensor, I swapped the Cam Shaft Sensor with my dad's XC.

Today driving the car, the trip out from home was normal. Coming back the problem resurfaced. No stalls, but while accelerating, the car will momentarily lose power and jerk. I found I can induce it every so often by coasting and then making a hard acceleration. ALSO, when the car jerks, I can instantly induce more jerks by pumping the accel pedal on and off. This will cause a series of jerks. Back in the garage at idle (to let the turbo cool) the car ran rough a couple of momentary instants.

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the battery.

The remaining sensors I have not swapped to troubleshoot are the 1. crankshaft sensor 2. fuel pressure sensor.

I have not yet replaced the fuel filter but correct me if i'm wrong, but the symptoms don't really represent a clogged filter?

Does the car have a sensor/transmitter on the accel pedal?

I'm also wondering if anyone knows if its possible for me to swap the main computer (CEM?) with my dads XC without having to reflash software since both are already programmed? This would troubleshoot the computer.

At this point, I am still leaning towards the ETM being bad, a bad fuel pump, or something like a wire that is shorting or worn? Is there another intermediate boost pump for fuel?

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm still wanting to trouble shoot more items before I go to the dealer and "fix" or not fix the problem for mucho dollars.

[billr99]

Yep, a new 12V battery at rest should read closer to 12.6V. With the engine running, you should see 13.8 to 14.2V. Keep in mind that it is possible for a shorted or heavily sulphated battery to still show 12V but not have sufficient current to crank the engine and/or drive the electronics.

Cheers,

Bill

[TXC]

Hi all, new to forum, will post in the newbies bit later.

Ignore the battery voltage at the jumpstart points for now, go to the battery itself, thats where it matters, you may find a loose terminal if you're lucky and solve it in one check, give the terminal clamps there a good wriggle. (This could affect your immobiliser issue and hesitation)

Swapping batteries for a road test can't hurt either, seen many cars crippled by high internal resistance batteries.

Swap over or clean up (preferably swap) your crank sensor and road test again, this is most likely candidate for causing a complete stall/cut-out. Resistance checks won't really help you here, as your car runs as it is, not a valid test for this fault.

To rule in/out your ignition coils, number them up with correction fluid and swap them over with your donor car, one by one until thery're all swapped (time consuming but financially free). Also i.d the coils to they're original vehicle or else you'll get them mixed up. Resistance checks also invalid tests for these unless you have an obvious failure of one coil.

Misfiring/jerking on a sudden throttle load is a symptom of failing ignition components (I know, so is low fuel pressure, but lets start here).

Hope this helps.

Tone.

[bornn]

Tone,

Thanks. I'm open to any and all suggestions. I plan on taking the battery in to Advance and having them test it on their machine also. The battery has always been clean terminals and tight connections. I actually disconnect it per the correct procedures for my swapping and checking if it requires unplugging so I know the are clean and tight.

Do you know, will a weaker battery cause such problems like I am having? My question on this stems from the fact that when the car is up and running the alternator is supplying system power. However, I can understand how computer modules may be tied to the battery via a hot battery bus, and "throw" faults if the battery does not meet a certain level? Any experience?

For the coils, I can swap out and test one by one. Thats not a huge deal. I figured the Ohms check showing identical readings across the board on all my coils was a good check, but i'm also not a seasoned mechanic.

I started off with a swap of the camshaft angle sensor as it was an easy one to perform. The Crankshaft sensor is more buried and requires more work but thats fine. Is it in fact a likely candidate and why?

I have the crankshaft and the fuel pressure sensor still to swap and rule out. Other than that, the main computer.

The other interesting point is that after cleaning the ETM (Elec Throttle Module) the car has never had another stalling episode again with full loss of RPMs. Just the jerking now. With the pedal feathering being able to make it continue or even bring it on I'm still looking at the ETM as suspect. It requires a lot of work, but I need to call the dealer tomorrow and find out if I can simply swap out ETM's with my fathers car as they are identical or if any disconnecting, reconnecting requires software reflash, or if the ETM is actually somehow paired to that car and cant be swapped during the initialization. My thought is that since they are both already installed and working they should be interchangeable, but I do know that if you replace your ETM, its a dealer only job due to the software flash needed to accept the new part. Anyone know on this if I could swap for a test and not require software reflash?

[TXC]

For accurate battery test, battery needs to be in rested state, longer the better (3 days ideally), so driving it down to a shop for a test, it will have a surface charge, and has literally just been in use, so expect a pass test result. Swapping with a known good one with no known faults may take a little longer, but more definitve.

From what you've said in previous posts and this one, your hunch about the ETM does have credit, it's the only thing you have actively disturbed and made a significant difference.

As for swapping the ETM off another vehicle without an ETM reload, you'll be lucky at best if it starts and runs normally enough for it to prove your point. Not an expert on this procedure, but I think you'll need to load/flash it to the car for full effect.

Crankshaft sensor likely candidate because?: It's the primary trigger point for when spark should occur, so any under performance or overheating etc may result in poor ignition system performance, late/missed spark at the plug etc.
If this is a task compared to the coils, leave this test till last.

Resistance checking of a component helps to confirm that the values fall within a range, good if you want to confirm a sensor or part of a circuit as open/short circuit, but the test is not carried out with the component/circuit 'in use' therefore can be misleading - this umbrella looks really good quality because i cant see through the material, bugger I'm now soaking wet, the seams leaked once wet.



Good luck.[thumbup]

[PieterJ]

Mine ('05 with 73K on the clock) started doing something similar last weekend - on a constant throttle uphill the car suddenly started yerking/stuttering for a couple of seconds and then the problem vanished. Last friday acted up again - this time I was more prepared for it and gave it more gas - felt like the engine was going to die. The engine recovered after a couple of seconds later but then started idling erratically - refs dipping the whole time. Saturday did the same but this time the "check engine" light came on.

So I took it in this morning to Volvo who ran the codes and diagnosed the problem as a faulty fuel pressure sensor. They replaced it so will see how it performs over the next couple of weeks and if that was the problem.

[bornn]

Thanks PieterJ for the info.

I have been away but got back so I could resume work.

Swapped the fuel pressure sensor this afternoon with my dads car. We took both cars for a 40+ minute drive and put them through a workout. Minor hesitations still on my car but nothing glaring.

Then the car sat for a few hours and he drove it to dinner with my mom. No more than two miles and the problem resurfaced.

Tomorrow we attack the crankshaft sensor and swap those.

After everything I have done, i'm starting to get to the point where I may have to bite the bullet and go to the dealer. After the crankshaft sensor, the only remaining swap I can perform is the ETM and I still have not called to see if that's possible, or requires the volvo software flash.

One big difference we noticed today driving both wagons was my dads 06 shifted much smoother than mine with more power. Also my 05 still did the idling bit where it seemed to "miss" every so often. He ran into a problem a couple of years ago where the 06 had really bad shifting issues and it was a software issue. As previously posted, I did do the free updates as part of the Service for Life program recently at the beginning of my trouble shooting.

My car had also sat for three days unused and the battery tested at 12.1-12.2 Volts prior to start-up so I think the battery is good.

Will update tomorrow. :confused:

[bornn]

Swapped crankshaft sensor with my dads 06 XC70. Test drive showed same problems. When accelerating hard momentary hesitations. Sometimes large ones. Idled poorly after test drive.

Also to off rear cargo area panels and inspected wires and fuses. Reseated approp. one.

Next up, fuel filter, swapping all coils to rule them out for sure.

Going to check with dealer and find out if ETMs can be swapped between cars without software reboot.

Any other thoughts? We were thinking fuel pump possibly?

[JRL]

ETMs can be swapped if already used and software has been applied
Do you have a check engine light?
If so GET THE CODE READ
If not, don't swap coils, waste of time, a coil misfire will throw a code instantly.

Seriously why are you doing all this, :confused: you probably have stored codes.
Go to the Volvo dealer, pay the 100 bucks and find out what's going on.
You're just wasting a ton of time and throwing darts, NOT the way to fix a Volvo or any car

[bornn]

JRL,

No CEL ever.

I did pull the codes originally. Stated in my original post: "I had my Volvo Mechanic pull the error codes off the car and he came up with ECM710B Immobilizer Comm Missing, ECM291D Fuel Pump Control Module signal too low, ECM291B Fuel Pump Control Module Signal Missing, CEM9C03 antenna light ring signal missing, CEM6c49 Transponder comm faulty signal, CEM6c48 transponder type faulty signal."

Replaced the PEM (Fuel pump electronic module) per the Volvo dealer mechanic I discussed the issue with after he suggested that I see if the free software updates fixed the problem. After that, he felt the PEM a likely candidate.

Why check all of these myself? Because 1. I have an identical Volvo to swap with and 2. maybe from bad experiences with dealers in the past and reading too many forum posts, but a problem like this that comes and goes makes me nervous about "Ok sir this is wrong $1000." problem not solved "Ok sir, we think this is wrong its now $500" problem not solved.

At least if I have to go in to the dealer after my efforts I know what is not wrong with the car. I do agree with you though that its worth getting the codes again to see if a new one has been thrown off.

I don't mean to come across as defensive because I sure do respect and appreciate folks help. Isn't that one of the great things of this site and others that if you are mechanically inclined maybe you can fix some stuff yourself as well as post info and help others?

Thanks for your help and thoughts.

[TXC]

Engine Control Relay - Feeds battery volts to Coils/Injectors/ETM/Oxy Sensors/EVAP plus more, substitite with Known good to rule out,

http://www.flickr.com/photos/76035390@N05/6831381166/

Fuel pump relay feeds battery volts your fuel pump control module, (Loss/Low signal fault code symptom?)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/76035390@N05/6831420080/

TXC.

[bornn]

TXC,

Excellent suggestions on the relays. Believe we already swapped the Engine Control Relay. However, not the fuel relay you hilighted. Will try tomorrow.

Swapped all the coils today from one car to another. Same problem still in existence.

Spoke on the phone for about 15 mins with tech at Xemodex. Said symptoms I am having are highly likely not the ETM. Suggested testing fuel pressure off the valve on the rail to check fuel pump system including check valve, collector tank, and pump via road test to watch pressure during symptoms and also static readings at idle. Pressure should not fluctuate during problems if pump system ok.

[bornn]

My 2005 XC70 problem has finally ended with a very positive outcome. Positive because I feel the problem has been technically solved and I had a great experience with a Volvo Dealer.

I am hopeful this will be my final post and it might help someone in the future.

After all the trouble shooting work and excellent suggestions from forum members I ended up taking the car first to my local Volvo mechanic where I road tested and found the fuel pressure to be all over the place, and then up to Mitchell Volvo in Torrington CT.

Mitchell had the car for two weeks due to the insideousness and difficulty of the issue. On drop-off I briefed the shop forman and service manager of all I had done and where I had gotten to. I handed over a blow by blow printout to hopefully save time for him.

After one week I was called to get the car. The initial feeling was the computer's adaptives needed to be reset. Not to go on about adaptives, but they basically adjust to the way the car is driven -or- if a new component is installed adjust accordingly. The foreman's opinion was that when I installed the new Fuel Pump Control Module, since the adaptives had not been reset, the car was still functioning like it had a broken PEM installed.

This didn't really make sense to me and sadly, three miles up the road the car started bucking again and back we went. The PEM by the way, was not bad in the first place but the error codes left one to believe it was and it made sense to perform the Tech Service Bulletin...

After another week of the foreman working the problem and putting about 400 miles on the car test driving, he came to another solution. Conferencing with the regional maintenance supervisor for the northeast he learned that the super had only one other XC with this type of issue and codes and it involved a wiring issue. Very hard to find and typically either a ground out or a problem with the fuel pump system itself.

The next work required pulling all the panels and floor out of the car from the rear fuel area all the way to the CEM. Another mouse nest was found behind the dash. No mouse damage however. The foreman was following a yellow wire from the PEM (Pump Electronic Module) all the way to the CEM which supplies the CEM control signal to the PEM. At the CEM (located down underneath the steering column), there is a gang plug of wires connected including the yellow one from the PEM.

The yellow wire, and another brown wire, (which the foreman did not look up on a schematic to identify it), had been crimped at some point and were actually rubbing on the CEM mounting bracket. They were chaffed, showing bare copper, and were positioned in a way that accelerating the car would likely make a ground out, thus canceling or interfering with the control signal to the PEM. After straightening and taping these wires (part of a harness so difficult to replace completely) the car is running normally.

I also learned that removal of the CEM is a very labor intensive job and requires coming in from up by the wipers to loosen two mounting screws on top of the unit just to be able to get it out below.

I was charged an extremely reasonable fee for the hours of labor the foreman put in on the car. He also had me test drive the car with him to see if I felt the symptoms again at all. I have already bought parts from this dealer for some time and it was honestly refreshing to be treated so professionally, courteously, and being able to put our heads together to solve the issue. This felt like good spirit of service on a car. Thank you Torrington Mitchell.

Hope this helps someone else, and I will gladly share any data I can. Thanks again for all of your help.

One last Silver Lining: I have a much greater appreciation for the engineering volvo put into this car after working on it.

[guymon]

Unlike a doctor who hopes the body heals itself, a car mechanic does not have that luxury. You found a great car mechanic who in my option has a harder job than a doctor. That was one hard to find diagnosis. And it was an easy fix.

Congratulations!

[Astro14]

As I recall, the Mitchell family car business started in Simsbury, CT while David Mitchell lived in Bloomfield, one street over from where I grew up...and he was a contemporary of my father...

They serviced my old Volvo 245 GLT about 15 years ago when I was up visiting family...

Glad to hear they still do a good job as they've grown and expanded through the years...

[ironmike]

This was a great, and painful to witness, read! THANK YOU! I'm dealing with a very similar issue with my 2007, though seems to be related to boost as opposed to hard acceleration. In other words, if going up a steep hill and just accelerating a little bit in a high gear (not enough push on the pedal to downshift) and turbo boost comes up while under this load, I get that bucking, very random brief cut out like someone is flicking a switch to the whole ignition system, but dash is fine, tach doesn't flicker, just this bucking, similar to a misfire (but all cylinders at once). Your situation sounds related to the movement inside the cabin of hard acceleration, which might not happen in my case but I'm definitely going to check it out. thanks!


My 2005 XC70 problem has finally ended with a very positive outcome. Positive because I feel the problem has been technically solved and I had a great experience with a Volvo Dealer.

I am hopeful this will be my final post and it might help someone in the future.

After all the trouble shooting work and excellent suggestions from forum members I ended up taking the car first to my local Volvo mechanic where I road tested and found the fuel pressure to be all over the place, and then up to Mitchell Volvo in Torrington CT.

Mitchell had the car for two weeks due to the insideousness and difficulty of the issue. On drop-off I briefed the shop forman and service manager of all I had done and where I had gotten to. I handed over a blow by blow printout to hopefully save time for him.

After one week I was called to get the car. The initial feeling was the computer's adaptives needed to be reset. Not to go on about adaptives, but they basically adjust to the way the car is driven -or- if a new component is installed adjust accordingly. The foreman's opinion was that when I installed the new Fuel Pump Control Module, since the adaptives had not been reset, the car was still functioning like it had a broken PEM installed.

This didn't really make sense to me and sadly, three miles up the road the car started bucking again and back we went. The PEM by the way, was not bad in the first place but the error codes left one to believe it was and it made sense to perform the Tech Service Bulletin...

After another week of the foreman working the problem and putting about 400 miles on the car test driving, he came to another solution. Conferencing with the regional maintenance supervisor for the northeast he learned that the super had only one other XC with this type of issue and codes and it involved a wiring issue. Very hard to find and typically either a ground out or a problem with the fuel pump system itself.

The next work required pulling all the panels and floor out of the car from the rear fuel area all the way to the CEM. Another mouse nest was found behind the dash. No mouse damage however. The foreman was following a yellow wire from the PEM (Pump Electronic Module) all the way to the CEM which supplies the CEM control signal to the PEM. At the CEM (located down underneath the steering column), there is a gang plug of wires connected including the yellow one from the PEM.

The yellow wire, and another brown wire, (which the foreman did not look up on a schematic to identify it), had been crimped at some point and were actually rubbing on the CEM mounting bracket. They were chaffed, showing bare copper, and were positioned in a way that accelerating the car would likely make a ground out, thus canceling or interfering with the control signal to the PEM. After straightening and taping these wires (part of a harness so difficult to replace completely) the car is running normally.

I also learned that removal of the CEM is a very labor intensive job and requires coming in from up by the wipers to loosen two mounting screws on top of the unit just to be able to get it out below.

I was charged an extremely reasonable fee for the hours of labor the foreman put in on the car. He also had me test drive the car with him to see if I felt the symptoms again at all. I have already bought parts from this dealer for some time and it was honestly refreshing to be treated so professionally, courteously, and being able to put our heads together to solve the issue. This felt like good spirit of service on a car. Thank you Torrington Mitchell.

Hope this helps someone else, and I will gladly share any data I can. Thanks again for all of your help.

One last Silver Lining: I have a much greater appreciation for the engineering volvo put into this car after working on it.

[ironmike]

For my situation it appears to have been the Crankshaft Position Sensor. Easy to replace while I was replacing the starter (which also cured many many things).

[Ted Brown]

I have recently purchased a 2007 XC70 w approx. 240km that is missing and then stalling on a regular basis (mostly when I drive into the city 80km each way). Car starts immediately after stalling without undue cranking but am concerned that is may get worse and leave me on the side of the road and with the costs that will entail.

I have ordered a tune up kit (Volvo plugs and the various filters from ipdusa) and will install when it arrives. In the meantime I have been researching to find possible causes and came across this thread. UGLY! The thought of paying a mechanic to hack and miss the various possibilities as described herein is daunting.

I will of course print this and provide to my mechanic but would like to also provide some priorities in terms of where to start (aside from getting the OBD code history). As I read this the CAM sensor and possible wiring shorts seem the likely culprits but truly I am guessing.

Would appreciate any advice with respect to how best to proceed?

Thanks

Ted

[Ted Brown]

I recently bought a 2007 XC70 with this problem; mostly happens on longer drives (into town and back, 80km each way); starts immediately after stalling. I have ordered the tune up kit from IPDUSA but substituted the OEM Volvo plugs for the Bosch ones, will install once I receive it.

I searched for guidance and found this thread - UGLY. I dread the thought of paying to have someone work through the list of possible culprits identified in this thread and would appreciate any help on how to proceed. Obviously will pull the OBD codes for some hints but the comments suggest this may not be definitive.

If I understand the gist possible wiring shorts or Crankshaft Position Sensor seem most likely but I am an amateur... Will print this out for my mechanic but do not want to have it interpreted as as to-do list. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Ted

[OslosisJones]

Start with new fuel and engine filters and fresh set of spark plugs. Buy a can of cleaner to make sure the MAF is clean. Pull codes with VIDA (more specific than generic OBDII).

Could be a lot of things:

-Low battery voltage or alternator issue
-Clogged PCV system, especially in colder temperatures, will usually cause rough idle, may spit out a MAF error code
-Fuel pressure sensor, should give a related code (replace this first before more expensive fuel system components!)
-Fouled spark plugs
-Camshaft position sensor, related code? (no personal experience with this one)
-Coils (should give misfire code for corresponding cylinder)

[Ted Brown]

Start with new fuel and engine filters and fresh set of spark plugs. Buy a can of cleaner to make sure the MAF is clean. Pull codes with VIDA (more specific than generic OBDII).

The kit I have ordered has Mann engine air, Mahle engine oil, and Mahle fuel filters along with a Volvo plug set so I am on that train as we speak. Will also ensure MAF is clean.

VIDA presents a challenge as I do not have the software nor the computer/OBD cable (assume that I will need that). I will track a cable down, assume Ebay or Amazon will have it. Where do I source the VIDA software?

Many thanks!!

[AKAMick]

The kit I have ordered has Mann engine air, Mahle engine oil, and Mahle fuel filters along with a Volvo plug set so I am on that train as we speak. Will also ensure MAF is clean.

VIDA presents a challenge as I do not have the software nor the computer/OBD cable (assume that I will need that). I will track a cable down, assume Ebay or Amazon will have it. Where do I source the VIDA software?

Many thanks!!

You need the VIDA/DICE interface unit, a OBD2/USB will not talk to the car even with the software installed, the software usually is included with a VIDA/DICE clone unit.

[howardc64]

VIDA presents a challenge as I do not have the software nor the computer/OBD cable (assume that I will need that). I will track a cable down, assume Ebay or Amazon will have it. Where do I source the VIDA software?


Not clear from your original post if have Check Engine Light? If not, VIDA diagnostic while can be helpful is going to be a lot more involved. Will need to understand operational theories of various subsystems and watch their parameters. Best left to someone more experienced. If you have CEL, VIDA should offer good directional pointer.

On these cars, this kind of problem without CEL usually involves part swapping and/or VIDA monitoring with knowledge of operational theory. This is what happened to the OP on this thread.

[Ted Brown]

You need the VIDA/DICE interface unit, a OBD2/USB will not talk to the car even with the software installed, the software usually is included with a VIDA/DICE clone unit.

After I posted my last comment I did some digging and discovered what you have stated. Several VIDA/DICE units on EBAY or Amazon most out out China/Hong Kong and one from US that looks like the ones out of Hong Kong but at twice the price. Non US delivery times are ridiculous and of no immediate use.

Any suggestions as to a "best" unit and source?

Many thanks.

[Ted Brown]

Not clear from your original post if have Check Engine Light? If not, VIDA diagnostic while can be helpful is going to be a lot more involved. Will need to understand operational theories of various subsystems and watch their parameters. Best left to someone more experienced. If you have CEL, VIDA should offer good directional pointer.

On these cars, this kind of problem without CEL usually involves part swapping and/or VIDA monitoring with knowledge of operational theory. This is what happened to the OP on this thread.

Your comment is what I love about the forums, all sorts of advice that leads one down a winding path along with pragmatic caveats such as yours that pour cold water on the more esoteric suggestions.

The original occurrence of the problem was without a Check Light but shortly after I got a check light with "Regular Maintenance Required" followed by a "Engine Service Required Urgent"; both now come on every time I start the car.

Much appreciated!

[howardc64]

The original occurrence of the problem was without a Check Light but shortly after I got a check light with "Regular Maintenance Required" followed by a "Engine Service Required Urgent"; both now come on every time I start the car.


With CEL, generic OBD2 code maybe revealing and VIDA/DiCE probably can provide additional insight. I take it you don't have OBD2 reader since didn't post any code. Run down to local auto store and get it read for free.

As for where to get VIDA (software) DiCE (hardware), I think most people get Chinese cloned DiCE on eBay or online auto diag tool stores. I recall hearing about quality problems sometime in the past but not sure if still the case. You might google for recently dated VIDA DiCE threads and see if still a problem. Installing the software isn't trivial. A lot of options and depend on what you OS to install on (Native Win XP, 7, 10 or Virtual Machine on any OS) VM is probably easiest as people have posted VM images with VIDA already installed. Easier if you can find a forum member near you in Quebec with VIDA/DiCE already setup.

[Ted Brown]

With CEL, generic OBD2 code maybe revealing and VIDA/DiCE probably can provide additional insight. I take it you don't have OBD2 reader since didn't post any code. Run down to local auto store and get it read for free.

My mechanic has tried to read codes but has not been successful. I now have identified a second mechanic who will try; he has several "light OBD2" units and one $4k kit.

New info on my problem: I gleaned from my readings that "feathering" the pedal might make a difference and in my case it does - if I apply gas the the vehicle bucks but will mostly rev and pull through the stall; only one full stop.

My tune up kit arrived today will get it installed asap.

I searched and found several VIDA/DICE kits. Given your caveat about need for pre-existing knowledge I am thinking buy the kit but set it up on my mechanic's computer? Given my limitations this may be the quickest and most successful course.

[Xfingers]

Given your caveat about need for pre-existing knowledge I am thinking buy the kit but set it up on my mechanic's computer? Given my limitations this may be the quickest and most successful course.

With all respect, this sounds like it could be a recipe for disaster. The set-up and learning curve for VIDA/DiCE can be unkind. The VIDA program puts a significant demand on your computer's resources and doesn't always play nice with other software. That's why some of us create a virtual machine (VM) on our computer and run it from there to isolate it. This thread was very helpful for me: https://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?481385-VIDA-Dice-2014D-VM-Image-Download-Link

It sounds like you have a good relationship with your mechanic. Does he specialize in Volvos? I would think he'd already have a DiCE setup. It can make a BIG difference in diagnosing these cars' issues. If you are successful installing VIDA/DiCE on his computer, maybe he'll give you a price break? If he works on Volvos, having the diagnostic software should boost his business!

[Ted Brown]

I borrowed a cheap OBDII reader from a friend and read the codes : 088, 192, 193; two of them indicate "Fuel Rail Pressure too High" (or words to that effect).

Any thoughts, comments?

[Ted Brown]

With all respect, this sounds like it could be a recipe for disaster. The set-up and learning curve for VIDA/DiCE can be unkind. The VIDA program puts a significant demand on your computer's resources and doesn't always play nice with other software. That's why some of us create a virtual machine (VM) on our computer and run it from there to isolate it. This thread was very helpful for me: https://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?481385-VIDA-Dice-2014D-VM-Image-Download-Link!

My career was IT including a number of years as an OS support technician so am pretty sure I can handle the install setup but your caveats, suggestions and the link are greatly appreciated!

[howardc64]

read the codes : 088, 192, 193; two of them indicate "Fuel Rail Pressure too High"

Googled "P0088 volvo" and found this

https://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?564873-p0089-p0088-p0193-and-p2178-codes-and-the-car-started-stalling-at-lower-RPM

The poster's 06 S40 T5 engine (2.5T) is nearly the same as your 07 XC70 engine so I'm going to guess the fuel pressure sensor is a good focal point.

Here is FCP Euro's DIY video on the FPS. Probably see enough failures for them to make a video to sell more parts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_xlUn1TIzo

[Ted Brown]

Googled "P0088 volvo" and found this

https://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?564873-p0089-p0088-p0193-and-p2178-codes-and-the-car-started-stalling-at-lower-RPM

The poster's 06 S40 T5 engine (2.5T) is nearly the same as your 07 XC70 engine so I'm going to guess the fuel pressure sensor is a good focal point.

Here is FCP Euro's DIY video on the FPS. Probably see enough failures for them to make a video to sell more parts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_xlUn1TIzo

Thanks Howard, I will get my tune up kit (plugs, filters) installed tomorrow and chase down a FPS. I looked on line seems they are easily available and not expensive.

Ted

[Ted Brown]

I wanted to update this: As noted above I replaced plugs, air filter and gas filter as a first step. Good improvement as this significantly reduced the stalling issues I was having (3 weeks with just 1 stall in a 180km round trip) but the engine continued to "stumble" and mis-fire. Next step was to replace the Fuel Pressure Sensor, this cleared up the mis-fire issues and appears to have resolved the stalling completely. One caveat is I have not made a longer (100+km) trip as yet; if I continue to have problems I will update this thread with further questions/actions taken.

I very much appreciate the advice given by various folks herein - thanks to all!

Ted

[nickbw]

I don't mean to be rude but if you honestly intend to service the xc yourself and make an adequate job then acquiring Vida/DiCE is your forst step. Also it seems fashonable to use all sorts of sparking plugs in the XC. I have not founk NHK or multi electrose plus work well in Volvo engines. I used them in my Alfa Romeo and they were fine but not Volvo. Don't wait until you have a problem rather get the car's actual service shedule up to date not for the engine only but the gearbox hydralic fluid; transfer box aka angle gear; the prop shaft; differential; viscous coupling/haldex; hubs; brakes & fluid; suspension and stearing. There is plenty to do and no little expense.