Potential new owner saying hi!

[StuntmanMike]

Hey all, I just registered a while ago and wanted to say hi.

I had written a really long post, then lost it, so this is take two...it's going to be much shorter, lol.

I've been lurking for a little while now, I've been doing research on the XC70. I've learned alot here so far...maybe too much, haha. The reliability of these has me a little scared as of now, but I'm going to keep an open mind.

So a little background...

I'm looking for a replacement for my '97 Grand Cherokee. It runs great even at 158k, but unfortunately evertyhing is falling apart around the drivetrain. Steering and suspension are horrible, and the body is going thanks to our lovely New England winters.

I don't need a full on SUV anymore, as I don't go offroading, but I like the utility of haivng one, and a roofrack is great for my kayak. I also hate digging out of the snow, so having awd/4wd is great. It's also be nice to get more than 16mpg.

So, as suggested by a co-worker, and AWD wagon could be a perfect fit. All the things I like about my Jeep, but in a more carlike form. Plus, I drive about 350 miles a week, work is a 64 mile round trip, so more comfort and fuel economy would be nice.

He's a Subaru fan, so he suggested an Outback, but I've always liked the look of the XC better, plus I see one everyday, my nieghbor has a nice 2nd gen - it's light blue with dk blue bumpers and tan interior. Sharp looking car! (I suppose I ought to talk to him about it).

Plus the Subies seem to be really expensive (I like the '05-'08 model), and at least in pics lack a luxury car interior...even though they're going for luxo car prices. To me, the Volvo seems much more in line with the Luxo car theme.

One thing I noticed is the prices are all over the place...I've seen 3900 for an '04 with 177k, to 25k for an '07 with 48k.

From what I've read, I should start at '04.

What's more important, model year or condition/service/miles?

So does it really matter with '04 vs. 05, 06, 07?

And how big a diff does mileage make?

Two '04's I found:

Biege/tan - new timing belt and water pump, 130k miles, $6,990.
Black/tan- new belt, water pump, pulleys, 99k miles, $9,495.

Is the 31k less miles worth the extra 2,500 bucks?

And how do these stand up over time? Can they still be relatively tight ansd rattle free at over 100k, or are they rattle traps like my Jeep is?

Also, how's corrosion resistance? At the newest these are now 5 years old, and New England winters are rough. I don't want to have corrosion problem like I do on my Jeep.

And I drive mostly highway at 65-70mph...would I be nuts hoping for 23 or 24mpg? And do these run on regular or premium?

Ok, that's it for now.

Thanks alot for the info!!

[John@CdnRockies]

Welcome aboard. You have the same dilemma I had in pulling the trigger until a board member egged me on. Best vehicle acquisition I have done.

I have a '96 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited as well. Love the rig (still have it at our island house in the San Juans) but definitely prefer our 2004 XC-70 which sees a lot more service in Calgary.

I prefer the AWD on the Volvo which is a Toyota Aisin unit. After 210,000 kilometers (130,000 miles) it continues to work flawlessly. There is not a sound from the transfer mechanism! Absolutely nothing as compared to my Jeep's which howls and has been replaced twice (not a dime spent on the Volvo asides from one recent tranny oil refresh). I drive in the Rockies and am a ski fanatic (50 times per year). Never had a problem with the AWD and that includes plowing through uphill mountain freshies half way up the wheel wells.

My highway mileage runs at 8.0 litres per 100/km which is 30 MPG (I am using US gallons in this calculation). This is a very consistent number running at 10% over the speed limits using cruise control.

Step in/out height is exactly the same although the height is lower when looking at other cars.

Repairs have been a fraction of the Jeep's. Fortunately I had a 100,000 mile warranty on the Jeep or I would have been bankrupted. The Volvo repairs have been minimal although the dealer is expensive (all our rigs are dealer serviced). Over 130,000 miles we have done synthetic oil changes, replaced 3 wheel bearings (one under warranty), refreshed the tranny oil once, and did a tuneup recently. Did the timing belt and water pump (its right there!) which a must-do items. Also had 2 burned out rear bulbs which are zero-cost replacement items. Tires and a replaced cracked windshield don't count in my book. I sure wish our other cars had been this cheap!

Both the Volvo and Jeep are great towing rigs. The Jeep is way better but the Volvo has done its work as well, towing a 3,000 lb sailboat (our mid-size unit) across Canada twice and through the Rockies several times. The turbo works hard but that is apparently near bullet proof.

After 130,000 miles the Volvo engine burns no oil between changes (every 6,000 miles in my case). Have to admit the same is true of the Jeep and Avalon (our Mercedes is another story).

In terms of comfort both cars are great. The edge certainly goes to the Volvo with its seats but comfort is a personal thing so you need to judge for yourself. Pay particular attention to the headrest and have your significant other check out the seat as well.

Our Volvo does have creaks and groans but fellow posters seem to think I am the unlucky guy on that count. Generally most XC-70's are quiet.

The Volvo is a tank compared to our other cars as well as the Jeep. No sign of rust after >7 years of primarily winter driving. By comparison the Jeep had definite rust areas (wheel well and hood) at this point in its life.

Interior storage space flexibility is no comparison. The square back on the Volvo hugely out performs the Jeep and those seats flip in every direction possible!

I have 3 sailboats and love the lower height of the Volvo. Regularly use a ski carrier on top of the Volvo which was a delight compared to the Jeep. You will find the same thing with kayaks (we are planning on buying 2 of them as well).

I also owned a Subaru (Legacy) but that was quite some time ago. The Volvo interior is a major step up from any friends' Subies I have been in lately. The engine is also a lot more polished and smoother to drive. The Turbo is not intrusive at all (unlike others I have owned) and it keeps a steady pace running up/down our pretty steep local mountains. I would be happy to pay a 30% premium to run with the Volvo.

I run on regular gas in Calgary (this is normal at higher elevations) and also do so at our other home in the San Juans which is at sea level as well as drives across Canada/USA. The timing self-adjusts and I have never experienced any knock. To be fair, I would move up to premium when towing the boat. My mileage number is quoted using regular gas.

All my cars were bought new so I can't offer any advice on buying 2nd hand, asides from "Wow will you ever save on the depreciation!"

Hope this helps.

John

[StuntmanMike]

Thanks for all the great info John! And it's nice to hear from someone who understands the "Jeep thing"!

I really do love my Jeep as well, it's just getting long in the tooth and uncomfortable to drive. The ride is horrible and it feels terribly underpowered. Mine is the 4.0L straight 6, and it runs amazingly well. It's just a shame everything else is worn out, along with all the rust. If it wasn't for the rust I would consider just going through all the mechanical problems, but it this point it seems like throwing money away.

Mine is modified, which could be the reason for the bad suspension - it's been lifted 3" since about 50K miles. I've replaced the shocks and springs, but all the bushings are original, and I believe the steering box needs replacing, there's an incredible amount of play in the steering to the point that it's a little scary to drive on the highway.

I finally replaced the tranfer case last month. Let me guess, you have the NP249 Quadra-Trac? That's what I had, and I had the drivetrain binding while turning. I replaced it with a Selec-Trac unit to get rid of the fulltime AWD - the Selec-Trac unit allows for 2wd operation, as well as fulltime and partime 4wd modes. And you're right, they're definitly loud, rough vehicles. When I first bought it I tried to return it to the dealer because I thought it was a problem, but they told me they all do that, which I learned to be true.

Luckily I do all my own Jeep work - t-case was 75 bucks off Craiglist, another 50 for the correct rear driveshaft, and it took me two afternoons to do the swap. At least these are fairly easy to work on and parts are cheap!

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions - you definitely helped. I'm surprised about the fuel mileage, that's much better than I expected! I'd be completely happy with that. As I do so much driving mileage is getting to be more of a factor in my car buying decisions. The last car I bought was in '07, it's a '00 Pontiac Firebird with a 5.7L V8 that gets 22.5mpg on premium. At the time I didn't care about the mileage, but now I'd like to get closer to 30. I'm prepared to sacrifice a bit of that for the AWD, space and utility of the wagon though.

I'm definitely keeping the Bird though, it's my summertime toy. The Volvo (if I get one) will be my "grown up car". Even with being single with no kids, I guess now that I'm in my early 30's I should get something practical, haha.

Also, thanks for the insight into the Subaru's. I really do want to get into a more luxurious car, and the Subaru's don't seem to be for what they're asking for them. Nice to have that confirmed.

I'm sure I'll have more questions, but you've been a ton of help so far!

[StuntmanMike]

Assuming the timing belt was done and it's clean, does something like this look like a good find?

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/ctd/2776714177.html

And it's actually my first choice color, although for some reason I preferthe tan interior on these.

[howardc64]

StuntmanMike has serious DIY skills for cost effective Volvo ownership. Lets egg him on :D

Seriously, good tranny is probably the key for you. Drive 20min to get ATF nice+hot+thin and then do lots of stop+go traffic. Even a tranny on its way out will cruise super smooth on the highway.

There are a few common minor leaks on this car. Most of us probably have oily gunk+deposits on the belly pan during every oil change. Might want to get an experienced eye to look for the leaks to confirm minor or major.

~30mpg when you go 65-70. I run 87 octane without any negative effects.

Most XC70s will be optioned more luxurious than typically optioned Subies.

Good luck :)

[StuntmanMike]

StuntmanMike has serious DIY skills for cost effective Volvo ownership. Lets egg him on :D:)


Seriously, good tranny is probably the key for you. Drive 20min to get ATF nice+hot+thin and then do lots of stop+go traffic. Even a tranny on its way out will cruise super smooth on the highway.

There are a few common minor leaks on this car. Most of us probably have oily gunk+deposits on the belly pan during every oil change. Might want to get an experienced eye to look for the leaks to confirm minor or major.

~30mpg when you go 65-70. I run 87 octane without any negative effects.

Most XC70s will be optioned more luxurious than typically optioned Subies.

Good luck

Haha! Let me stress that there are things I'd MUCH rather be doing than laying on my back under a vehicle! However, it's great to save money when I can, and I enjoy doing oil changes.

Thanks for the info about the tranny, that's a great point and something I'll definitely remember when I take one for atest drive.

As far as fluid seeping...used to that in the Jeep! As Jeepers say, it's not leaking....it's marking it's territory!

And you're blowing my mind with the fuel economy...getting 30 would be AWESOME. And I DO drive with a light foot, I usually set the cruise at just under 70 and my commute is mostly highway.

I was reading about the Subaru's...the standard 2.5's are pretty underpowered from what I read, with only 170hp. You can step up the the XT, which has a 2.0 250hp Turbo which sucks down premium at around 20-21 mpg (rated at 17/24) according to the Subaru boards. However, they also say that the 2.0 takes some time to spool up, and is very sluggish under 3,500 rpm...you know, where 90% of normal driving is done.

Yeah, I'm all set with that. I can get better mpg in my Firebird that has over twice the motor. Plus they're not exactly trouble free either...and have the same timing belt concerns.

[howardc64]

Oh you will be doing more than oil changes haha. But not too bad. Car drives like new after you replace the worn suspension elements.



I was reading about the Subaru's...the standard 2.5's are pretty underpowered from what I read, with only 170hp. You can step up the the XT, which has a 2.0 250hp Turbo which sucks down premium at around 20-21 mpg (rated at 17/24) according to the Subaru boards. However, they also say that the 2.0 takes some time to spool up, and is very sluggish under 3,500 rpm...you know, where 90% of normal driving is done.

Mother in law had a 2003 and now a 2010 Outback. Pre 2010 Subies downfall on mileage due to the 4 speed tranny. Lacks the gear for highway mileage. >=2010 outback has CVT and mileage goes way up. Rated at 22/29 EPA.

Volvo's 2.5 liter engine (>= 2003 models) with light pressure turbo is nice. You get good mileage (small displacement) and power when you need it. Turbo kicks in pretty quick. Torque is 236 at 1500 RPM! My understanding on turbos is that if you want large air volume, you need to wait for the turbine to spin up hence latency. Less air volume boost require lower spin up can be quicker. Newer designs like BMW's twin scroll gets even more efficient and provide torque across even wider RPM band (260 at 1250RPM from 2L 4 cylinder) Sounds like Subie's XT went for high air volume and make you wait :(

[StuntmanMike]

236 lbs/ft at 1500rpm! Wow, that's like diesel numbers!

Now that sounds perfect, these must be great to drive. Torque down low is exactly where I want it, I'm not a fan of high strung motors.

[Leto Atreides II]

Before you get too excited about the mileage numbers, you should know 30 MPG is pretty high. I think the most I've seen is around 25-26 MPG when I was doing all freeway driving. My foot might be a little heavier than previous posters' though -- I was certainly going higher than 70 for a good portion of the trip.

Most of the time I see mileage in the low 20s from mixed highway and town driving. I always put premium gas in it.

[MacNoob]

Before you get too excited about the mileage numbers, you should know 30 MPG is pretty high. I think the most I've seen is around 25-26 MPG when I was doing all freeway driving. My foot might be a little heavier than previous posters' though -- I was certainly going higher than 70 for a good portion of the trip.

Most of the time I see mileage in the low 20s from mixed highway and town driving. I always put premium gas in it.

I agree more with Leto on the mileage. My low mile '07 has never seen near 30. Rating here in Canada is 8.8L/100KM highway, you would need IDEAL conditions (warmish, flat, no wind) to achieve that. My one-year average over 17,000km is 10.5L/100km or 22.5mpg US for about 50/50 city/highway (I live out of town and my usual drive is about 50/50).

Go to fuelly.com and look at Volvo XC70 mileage reports for real world data from many owners.
http://mefi.us/images/fuelly/smallsig-metric/59955.png


I prefer the AWD on the Volvo which is a Toyota Aisin unit.

Slight correction, the transmission is an Aisin-Warner unit as used by many other makers. The AWD system is Haldex from Sweden.



Also, how's corrosion resistance? At the newest these are now 5 years old, and New England winters are rough. I don't want to have corrosion problem like I do on my Jeep.

And I drive mostly highway at 65-70mph...would I be nuts hoping for 23 or 24mpg? And do these run on regular or premium?


Corrosion resistance seems to be fantastic on recent Volvos. Our city blows salt all over the place all winter, and winter is from November til April. Lots of rust free mid 90s Volvo 850s around yet.

I see about 25-26 mpg US at 100kmh (62mph) which is our highway speed limit. Manual says regular is OK and recommends mid (90). I tend to use 87 when cold out and 91 in the heat although I haven't noticed much difference.

[jsimons944]

After 3 winters in Ontario, the only rust on my '06 was the parking brake shoes and springs. I'd suggest using the parking brake and flushing them occasionally in the winter as preventive maintenance.

My highway mileage has been a consistent 24-25 mpg. A couple of months ago, I loaded belongings into every available interior cubic inch for the return trip from Canada. Interestingly, the mileage was unchanged with all that load.

This is my 3rd Volvo, and the first one I bought used. The '99 V70R AWD and '75 245 are still strong and dependable.

Jim

[howardc64]

city+suburb driving does drop mileage quickly on this car. I get around 19-20 in hilly suburb where I live. Same place as Toby and he seems to be getting better mileage than me! My wife's short trips to/from kid's local schools is probably keeping me below 20.

I saw 30mpg doing a 200 mile journey from Seattle to Portland. Some hills so not completely flat terrain. I reset the mpg counter at the on ramp and checked when within 3 blocks of getting off highway 200 miles later. But yes, if you just add a little city driving mix in there, it will drop pretty quickly. Whenever I've seen others getting 30mpg, it is always all pure highway only measurements and often long cross country trips. Here are some links for reference. Skip the posts on European's D5 (diesel) engines... wish we can get those... but I hear Volvos are moving towards 3-4 cylinder turbos so mileage will climb in a few years on the new cars :)

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0fcaea/10
http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11871

So I think it depends if you are doing mostly/all highway :)

[Leto Atreides II]

city+suburb driving does drop mileage quickly on this car. I get around 19-20 in hilly suburb where I live. Same place as Toby and he seems to be getting better mileage than me! My wife's short trips to/from kid's local schools is probably keeping me below 20.


Maybe a bit higher since I always fill it up with premium, not regular. Of course at the Costco down the hill the price for premium is in line with the price of regular at most other stations, so I can sort of justify it that way. :)

Most of my driving is also short trips to and from the park & ride to take a vanpool to Seattle, but we usually get a few family trips with more highway miles that push it up over 20. I have noticed the computer usually understates the mileage that I calculate on my own by how much gas I add versus how many miles I drove, so if you are only going off the car's computer that could also add some difference.

[StuntmanMike]

Thanks again for all the info.

I'm not expecting hitting 30, unless I take it on a road trip.

I tend to drive on the slow side though, I'm used to trying to eke out the best possible mileage from my Jeep, and it has an instant mpg readout that has transformed me into a granny driver over the years. I'm a big fan of cruise control, and I normally set it at 58 in my Jeep, and 65-70 in my Firebird.

So if there's good mileage to be gotten out of these, I'll get it!

My commute is mostly highway, and that part that isn't highway is a 2 lane road where traffic flows around 40 mph. I probably have 8 traffic lights or so over the 8 miles till I hit the highway, after that the highway offramp is basically across the street from my work. I also don't drive around town much, so I do very little "city" driving.

Honestly, if I can get just a bit better mileage than my 'Bird (5.7L V8 and 22.5mpg avg on 93 octane) I'll be happy.

I once checked my mileage on a round trip to work. I filled it up, did strictly the trip to work and back, then filled it again. I got 26.5 mpg. Not bad for a 300+ horse V8 with an automatic.

I see that some people use reg, some premium. I'm interested in the difference in milage with the fuel grades.

I've read here that premium is not required, and that 87 is fine, but I saw an another auto site where it said it calls for premium.

I did a test in my Firebird (which recomends 91 octane, minimum), where I ran a tank of 89 octane through it. The car ran exactly the same as with 93, untill after few days I noticed the fuel gauge dropping much faster.

Instead of my normal 22.5-ish tank, I got 19.2mpg. Same exact driving. Needless to say I've never run anything less than 93 again. Saving ten cents a gallon is a bum deal when you have to lose 3mpg to do it!

I wonder if there's any difference with these? Considering 93 is only about 25 cents more per gallon than 87, it could be well worth it.

[Astro14]

Premium is recommended, not required.

But the AK sensor will tell the ECU to pull the timing back, and mileage will likely be slightly lower on regular...so, I use premium in the T5. My wife uses regular in the XC...and gets on the lower range of what others are reporting for mileage...I contend (but haven't yet proven) that mileage is better on premium...does it offset the cost increase? Couldn't tell you...

[StuntmanMike]

Premium is recommended, not required.

I contend (but haven't yet proven) that mileage is better on premium...does it offset the cost increase? Couldn't tell you...

Well, if premium is recommended, I tend to agree with you. My experience certainly shows it to be true.

It's worth a try...it's only about 3 bucks more for a tank of premium...it's not that big a deal.

[Xilikon]

I did the testing with premium vs regular and it seems that if you don't solicit the turbo a lot, premium fuel is a waste. It also depends on driving style and road types.