View Full Version : Help! Changing valvebody - dropped o-ring into sump
Help! Oh smack - I am in the middle of doing a valve body swap on my '05 V70 using the instructions here (http://www.v70xc.com/resources/how-to/pdf/2002-V70-XC-Valve-Body-Replacement-Notes.pdf) and on page 18, right before installing the new valvebody, I was removing one of the 2 o-ring/seal items that you have to replace right before putting the new valvebody in. Well, one of them fell, and it fell down into the sump area of the tranny. My question is, am I totally fracked? Or is there a screen in the sump, and it will just hang out down there? Thanks!!!!
Well, I tried to fish the old seal out of the sump area, and couldn't even find it down in there (space is tight, couldn't scope it, and a dental mirror was worthless). I did try removing the 24mm large drain plug which is in the vicinity down there, and drained what little extra fluid was there, thinking it might carry the rubber seal out with the flow - but to no avail.
Well, I figured I wasn't going to be able to get it, not short of actually removing the tranny and opening it up. So I went ahead and put the new seals and valvebody on, and put the valvebody cover with some new RTV sealant back on as well. Its curing right now, so I guess tomorrow night we shall see!
I know the older AW tranny's had a sieve or screen which protected the uptake from the sump, so if there was any debris in the fluid it would not enter the delicate parts of the tranny. I really hope the AW55/50-SN does as well! Anyone know?
Well, I did some more research - it looks like the AW55/50-SN does indeed have a filter, and it turns out this was one of the obstructions in the sump area that prevented me from seeing the dropped seal/oring. I recognize it from when I was using the dental mirror to examine the sump. Here is a picture of it I found online:
http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=2&Product_Code=A89010C&Category_Code=AW-55-50Filter
Thanks!
Astro14
10-02-2011, 06:55 AM
I'll have to add "stuff lint-free rag in sump to preclude FOD" to the directions...I generally do that with any kind of work where internals (engine/trans) are exposed...I once lost the mounting screw from a choke pull-off on a Rochester Q-Jet...couldn't figure out where it went, but since I was working outside I couldn't search the ground effectively, so I just assumed that it had fallen on the ground somewhere...nope...
Found that screw embedded in the no. 4 piston when the engine started knocking a few miles later...bye, bye engine...lesson learned.
Since you've buttoned it up, the question is academic...I wish I knew if the trans actually has a screen...most do...and I've seen an AW-55 filter (screen) for sale...so you might be OK...(edit) since you saw the screen...it should be OK and in the sump...
If it's really in the sump (and didn't go down another passage...), then it may flush out the drain plug with a bit more fluid washed through there...worth a try...or have you already driven it?
Good Luck.
PS - why were you replacing a valve body on an '05?
Seamus
10-02-2011, 07:10 AM
I think I remember our dealer saying there were metal pieces caught in the screen in our tranny when it died, so it probably has one
billr99
10-02-2011, 07:24 AM
I once lost the mounting screw from a choke pull-off on a Rochester Q-Jet...couldn't figure out where it went, but since I was working outside I couldn't search the ground effectively, so I just assumed that it had fallen on the ground somewhere...nope...
Found that screw embedded in the no. 4 piston when the engine started knocking a few miles later...bye, bye engine...lesson learned.
You know you've been through the car maintenance wars when you've earned your stripes by having a story like this. Right now, I have the head off a 2.5NA Land Rover diesel and it has rags stuffed here and there and red gaffers tape all over it, just because I've got a couple of stories like this. Glad I'm not the only one.
Cheers,
Bill
n00bkiller944
10-02-2011, 11:49 AM
Ask me about the time I forgot to take the red rag out of the intake on the mercedes I used to have... :/ luckily everything ended ok but it scared the crap out of me...
jda2000
10-02-2011, 12:21 PM
I did try removing the 24mm large drain plug which is in the vicinity down there, and drained what little extra fluid was there, ...
if you indeed loosened that big large bolt, you just messed up the tranny. Your car won't shift pass 3rd gear when you put it all together.:(
if you indeed loosened that big large bolt, you just messed up the tranny. Your car won't shift pass 3rd gear when you pit it all together.:(
The drain plug bolt is ok to remove- its actually the step on page 4 of the instructions I linked to. I think you are referring to the similar sized large bolt on the top of the tranny - that is a locating pin for the gearing mechanisms, and as you said, that is a big no no!
If it's really in the sump (and didn't go down another passage...), then it may flush out the drain plug with a bit more fluid washed through there...worth a try...or have you already driven it?
That was going to be my first order of business tonight once the RTV is done curing. Was going to top off the fluid, and without running it, drain the 3.5 or so quarts from the bottom - it just might flow out (fingers crossed).
The frustrating thing is I did stuff rags every where else - and just this one spot I didn't (since the tranny case has a negative camber relative to vertical where the valvebody connects, I didn't think anything would fall in there). Lesson learned - yet again :(
PS - why were you replacing a valve body on an '05?
Slam shifts from 3-2, and 2-1, delayed engagement, etc. The earlier (02-04) had more of a 2-3 upshift issue I hear. 105k miles, poorly maintained, I just picked it up this year with a host of problems, but $5k less than NADA or KBB prices. So not a bad deal all told. This tranny issue was the last final lingering item...
NOT a great deal if poorly maintained as you have found out!
Astro14
10-02-2011, 05:06 PM
Well...assuming that it survives the o-ring in the trans (it should)...then I am sure that the engine is full of sludge from using regular oil and pushing the oil change...I would recommend Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra on a shorter (3K/3 month) interval for a few changes to start cleaning that up. I am not a fan of oil additives (particularly since the manual specifically prohibits them...), but a good synthetic can work well and slowly...and when dissolving sludge, slowly is better to prevent oil passages getting plugged...
I use the Ultra on the XC, Mobil 1 0W40 on the T5. Both engines are squeaky clean inside...
Well...assuming that it survives the o-ring in the trans (it should)...then I am sure that the engine is full of sludge from using regular oil and pushing the oil change...I would recommend Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra on a shorter (3K/3 month) interval for a few changes to start cleaning that up. I am not a fan of oil additives (particularly since the manual specifically prohibits them...), but a good synthetic can work well and slowly...and when dissolving sludge, slowly is better to prevent oil passages getting plugged...
I use the Ultra on the XC, Mobil 1 0W40 on the T5. Both engines are squeaky clean inside...
I hear you on that! I picked it up back in February actually, and well, let's just say that there was indeed sludge - had plugged tubes going to the turbo, and the turbo was fried - PCV system was jacked too. I replaced all of the PCV components (not cheap either - my '99 s70 had plastic tubes - this 05 had all metal, and it ran $400 or so), had the turbo rebuilt ($850), and did the water pump, hoses, belts, etc. (another $350 or so). Plus ran 2 changes of fully synthetic 10w30 (Castrol).
Its interesting you bring that up though - I was thinking of running a can of SeaFoam in the oil before I do another oil change in the near future - but as you said, maybe that would liberate too much too quickly and cause problems?
BTW, the o-ring turned out to be a non event - I have put 100 miles on the car in the past 2 days, no problems thus far. I am convinced now that the filter I posted about earlier in the thread is the one I saw in the sump area of the tranny - it looks identical to it.
kamiar
10-05-2011, 08:09 PM
How is the tranny working after valve body job?
Astro14
10-06-2011, 07:49 AM
Seafoam, Kreen, all those kinds of solvents worry me a bit, since the owner's manual specifically cautions against additives of any kind. For that reason, I would not use them in the car. You've replaced the worst of the sludged up areas...so I would run a good synthetic and let it slowly clean the rest.
I know people who swear by Marvel Mystery Oil - it's basically a 20WT with some solvents in it...but I haven't tried it in this car, so I can't recommend it...even though I've run it in other cars with no problems...and it did a great job freeing the rings on a old cub tractor...
How is the tranny working after valve body job?
Well - better - but I will hold out final judgment till 2 weeks or so from now. I did the adaptation procedure on Monday (had a stealership confirm latest TCU software, and put it in adapt mode for me), and the adaptation worked well across all the RPM ranges, including downshifting, with a single exception: the 3-2 downshift that was giving me trouble from the beginning. It just wouldn't adapt, and after 1.5 hours of driving it, I had to go to work (took the morning off Monday to take care of the adaptation - nearest dealer is 45 minutes away!). In truth, all of the upshifting is MUCH improved (wasn't bad tho to begin with), and the downshift is good too. Manual shifts are quite a bit faster as well. Definitely a better valvebody! But back to the 3-2 downshift problem, it changed: rather than having a delayed downshift (with an accompanying mehcanical 'clunk'), it now downshifts a bit prematurely. I called the company that rebuilt the valvebody (Level 10 Transmissions in NJ), who have rebuilt hundreds if not thousands of AW55/50's and associated valvebodies. They said this was normal - that the memory in the TCU is extremely difficult to get reset properly and the premature downshift is the old legacy adaptation to the failing valvebody (so the old valve body had a delayed physical reaction, which the TCU tried to anticipate, so now I am getting a premature shift on the healthy valve body). They said in almost all cases within 2 weeks of driving the TCU finally recognizes the difference and readapts that set of solenoid transitions. I guess if I had had more time in adapt mode, I might have been able to play with my decel rates to get the adapt to work for that downshift, but I didn't. So I will wait two weeks and let you know!
It is much smoother all around though!
Volky_one
10-06-2011, 09:26 PM
Well - better - but I will hold out final judgment till 2 weeks or so from now. I did the adaptation procedure on Monday (had a stealership confirm latest TCU software, and put it in adapt mode for me), and the adaptation worked well across all the RPM ranges, including downshifting, with a single exception: the 3-2 downshift that was giving me trouble from the beginning. It just wouldn't adapt, and after 1.5 hours of driving it, I had to go to work (took the morning off Monday to take care of the adaptation - nearest dealer is 45 minutes away!). In truth, all of the upshifting is MUCH improved (wasn't bad tho to begin with), and the downshift is good too. Manual shifts are quite a bit faster as well. Definitely a better valvebody! But back to the 3-2 downshift problem, it changed: rather than having a delayed downshift (with an accompanying mehcanical 'clunk'), it now downshifts a bit prematurely. I called the company that rebuilt the valvebody (Level 10 Transmissions in NJ), who have rebuilt hundreds if not thousands of AW55/50's and associated valvebodies. They said this was normal - that the memory in the TCU is extremely difficult to get reset properly and the premature downshift is the old legacy adaptation to the failing valvebody (so the old valve body had a delayed physical reaction, which the TCU tried to anticipate, so now I am getting a premature shift on the healthy valve body). They said in almost all cases within 2 weeks of driving the TCU finally recognizes the difference and readapts that set of solenoid transitions. I guess if I had had more time in adapt mode, I might have been able to play with my decel rates to get the adapt to work for that downshift, but I didn't. So I will wait two weeks and let you know!
It is much smoother all around though!
How much was the repair cost of valvebody and how much for shipping? can you recomend this Lever 10 Transmission in NJ? Address?
I was looking to send mine in Canada but that is the only one I heard of, refered by Astro14 in his guide.
Astro14
10-07-2011, 06:14 AM
Volky - I would simply give them a call and ask, they're in NJ:
http://www.levelten.com/
If I ever have to get the trans rebuild, I was planning on using them...
Yep, that's them alright, in NJ. I was originally thinking of the canadians since it seemed their price not too long ago was cheaper ($450 or so?), but when I called them it had gone up to $595 CD, which with the exchange rate with US (go figure, US dollar is WEAKER than the CD for the first time in a long time!), it was more like $620 USD. After figuring delays in customs and all that, I called Level 10 (http://www.levelten.com/) and it was $698 for theirs - and they had several in stock! Well, that sealed it for me - and when I shipped my core back to them, it was only $20 UPS ground. So they sent me the unit, I did the swap, and just used their packaging to send back my core. Really good experience all around.
georgech
03-23-2012, 03:15 PM
g-v,
Did you ask levelten about how to dig the valvebody seal ring out from the sump? You bought a rebuilt valvebody from them, they may have a good answer for your problem.:)
Did you replace the filter? If it is not too complicated, I am considering to replace mine. Hope your flare problems is gone by now, if levelten is correct about the legacy memory in the tcu.
georgech
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