Towing & Tongue Weight?

[phlegm]

I'm a bit surprised by the relatively low tongue weight numbers in the specs - going from memory I think it is 165 lbs. (?).

The towing capacity limit is 3,300 lbs, so you'd expect a tongue weight limit in the 300lb range.

Does anyone have any insights/comments?

[John@CdnRockies]

You are correct in terms of the specs. I tow a 26 foot MacGregor sailboat which comes in around 3,000 lbs fully loaded (water ballast removed). I've never felt that it fishtailed or had a problem in several jaunts across the Cdn Rockies (Calgary to Victoria where we have a retirement house).

I'm in the UK on work regularly and the XC-70 is considered one of the prime towing vehicles hauling pretty large "caravans" (house trailers to us) which must be pushing the 3,300 lb limit.

I do find that the rear sags when the sailboat is plunked down but have never felt out of control and I am cruising along at a regular 100 to 120 kph. I'm guessing that I have more than 165 lbs on the hitch but have never measured it.

John

[phlegm]

Thx for the reply John.

We're looking to tow a camper in the 3000 lb range, but the tongue weight is listed at 260 lbs or so.

I'm trying to sort out if this would just amount to a sagging rear end, or if we'll do some frame damage by going over the rated tongue weight of the xc70.

Maybe upgraded suspension would help?

[John@CdnRockies]

I have searched without success for upgraded suspension kits. Let us know if you find an after-market solution like the "Nivomat" suspensions which are available in Europe. I don't believe that a reasonably priced alternative is available in North America.

Btw, be sure that your camper has surge brakes. Our boat trailer includes surge brakes which I would deem an essential safety item at these weight levels. Stopping otherwise is highly problematic.

The boat is in storage at this point (done this weekend). I will get out there and weigh the tongue weight using a bathroom scale. I'm guessing in the low 200's of pounds in our case. We've done about 5,000 kilometers of towing using the Volvo through the Rockies without a problem thus far (200,000 km on the odometer), so I think it is doable. I'm reasonably experienced in towing as I've done a further 20,000 kilometers towing this boat behind our Jeep.

Good luck.

John

[nick i]

Here is Australia you are required to fit a weight distribution hitch (WDH) in the follwing circumstances.
I propose to tow a 1600 kg caravan with our 2010 XC70. We also tow the same van with our 2008 Mercedes ML 320 Cdi which has a greater towing capacity. Even so, I always fit the WDH to the Merc, as I will with any car towing a rig as heavy as you all descibe, in particular those with on board brakes, being hydraulic or electrically operated.

The general rule here is to ensure stability of ones towing setup, a minumum of 10% of the weight of the trailer needs to be on the towball. Prior to hitching up your trailer, you should measure the distance between the gound and the top of the wheel arch at the front wheel. Then hitch up your trailer and adjust the WDH bars so that the car returns to the same level as evidenced by remeasuring the height at the front.

The above action transfers weight back to the front wheels thus helping to maintain steering control and tyre contact with the road when braking.

In addition, sway and control over the entire rig is considerably enhanced.

Relying on self levelling systems or stiffer springs only serves to improve internal carrying capacity of the vehicle, it does not improve towing dynamics, only a proper capacity tow bar and WDH can acheive this.

Some manufacturers allow higher tow ball download limits if a WDH is used. I, at the moment can't find reference to this for the 2008 -12 XC70.

If a manufacturer claims a braked towing limit of 1800kg, they must also acknowlege a minimum of 10% ball weight as discussed above, for safety reasons, in particular in reducing sway. Other causes of sway include incorrect weight distribution within the trailer, e.g some people put too much weight in the rear thus reducing ball weight and creating a potential disaster with excessive sway. ... Cheers ...Nick

[nick i]

Hi, Please see the following links about towing tips:

http://www.haymanreese.com.au/mmysearch.asp?Change=Year
(note 150kg ball weight limit)

http://www.haymanreese.com.au/

http://www.haymanreese.com.au/products/weightdistributionsystems.htm
(i have the 600lb kit)

http://www.haymanreese.com.au/safertowing/HR_Towingguide.htm
(7 towing tips for beginners)

http://www.haymanreese.com.au/safertowing/HR_Safertowingmenu.htm
(safer towing guides).

http://www.caravan-camping.com.au/files/hints-tips/setting%20up%20for%20towing.pdf

http://www.towingguide.com.au/content/towing_your_trailer.html
(towing your trailer - plus more)

Cheers ... Nick

[phlegm]

Thanks for the info Nick, and confirming the "10% rule" for tongue weight.

Looking at the manual, looks like Volvo accounts for it, but only as far as trailers without brakes.

"Max Trailer Weight (without brakes): 1650 lbs / 750 kg"
"Max Tongue Weight: 165 lbs / 75 kg"

The manual later states:

"Max Trailer Weight (With brakes, 2" ball): 3,300 lbs / 1500 kg"

...but the max tongue weight remains at 165 lbs / 75 kg, so how the heck are you supposed to tow 3,300 lbs/ 1500 kg? You'd have to double the maximum rated tongue weight to keep the 10% rule.

What's the point of listing a high maximum towing capacity if you can't attach it to the vechicle? Doesn't make sense to me.

[nick i]

Hi,

The tow ball down weight when towing a braked trailer is 150kg here in AU.

It could not be 75kg this equates to the 10% for trailer without brakes up to 750kg.

See this link: http://www.haymanreese.com.au/mmysearch.asp?Change=Year

(The rating/ball weight for the Volvo XC70 2007 on with a Hayman Reese hitch receiver is 2100/150kg)

Cheers ... Nick

[phlegm]

Thanks again, but I still don't follow.

The manual says max tongue weight is 165 lbs (75 kg). There isn't a separate listing for trailers with brakes or without brakes - just one number of 165 lbs.

My interpretation (hope I'm wrong) is that you can't put more than that amount on the tongue/hitch ball. So sure, maybe the car can tow 3,300 lbs and maybe the hitch you bought after market can support 400 lbs at the tongue, but Volvo says the vehicle itself cannot support a tongue weight greater than 165 lbs. (?)

Are you saying I can double what Volvo sets as Max?

[stplfld]

... by two issues:
1. the tongue load of 165 lbs when the specs allow to pull 3300 lbs
2. front wheel drive based AWD system performance on a wet boat ramp - trying to pull the boat up?

I assume that with a weight distribution hitch item 1. may be addressed?

BUT I am quite concerned about point 2: I've spent at least 8 hours researching on line, but there does not seem to be any conclusive answer in regards to ramps. COULD EXISTING OWNERS please shed some light? I am looking to purchase a 2010 T6 XC70

Input is greatly appreciated - since I did find a used car with all the right equipment. Don't really want to go back to an SUV. Total towing distance will be short <5 miles and level.

thanks

[phlegm]

stplfld - you've summarized it nicely. I'm still trying to sort out the answer to #1, and I have a request into Volvo Canada's technical folks to confirm. I'll post back.

Re your 2nd question, I found an older thread here that may be of use to you:
http://xc70.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16526

Finally, even if the AWD system defaults to 95% FWD under normal conditions, it should kick in fairly quickly to adjust drive wheels if slippage occurs. I'd also figure in your tire traction under wet conditions - some are better than others.

Please post back if you hear anything else.

[stplfld]

thanks for the link. Well, today is decision time between the XC and a 4runner. The heart is on the XC, but ....

figured the tongue weight out I believe: I learned on the forum that with a dual axle trailer typically only 5% of the trailer weight is required. (always wanted a dual axle trailer anyway ;-) ), but the front load / transfer remains a concern. The link phlegm sent is great (and a great pic to boot), but that looks to be relatively shallow point of entry versus a much steeper ramp on the ocean, that needs to accommodate tide shifts. what to do - heart or brain

[XCovlov70]

You are correct in terms of the specs. I tow a 26 foot MacGregor sailboat which comes in around 3,000 lbs fully loaded (water ballast removed). I've never felt that it fishtailed or had a problem in several jaunts across the Cdn Rockies (Calgary to Victoria where we have a retirement house).

I'm in the UK on work regularly and the XC-70 is considered one of the prime towing vehicles hauling pretty large "caravans" (house trailers to us) which must be pushing the 3,300 lb limit.

I do find that the rear sags when the sailboat is plunked down but have never felt out of control and I am cruising along at a regular 100 to 120 kph. I'm guessing that I have more than 165 lbs on the hitch but have never measured it.

John

I think John is quite correct.

We have just done a 2700 Mile trip around the UK with a 'Tin Tent' (House Trailer) on the back of a D5 XC70 (205Bhp) the 'Tin Tent' is supposed to be 1500Kg (3300lbs) but I think we were slightly over that at 1600Kg (3520lbs) and we had no problems at all even going up 15% or 20% Gradients :eek::eek:

I just got into 3rd or 4th Gear (Manual Box) the Turbo on 'Flamenco Red' started that nice 'growling' sound and we went up the road with no problem at all and plenty of power in reserve.

So thinking that you guys over there have got BIGGER engines like 3.2Ltr then it should be even easier for you than us! :D

Ps. The 'Tongue weight' (Nose weight for us) was 75Kg (165lbs) and the self adjusting suspension on Flamenco Red did not move when we hitched up.

Good luck. [thumbup]

[XCovlov70]

I checked the Drivers Handbook for the braked trailer weight limit over here in the UK for a D5 (205Bhp) XC70 and it turns out to be:

2100 Kg which equates to 4620 lbs

Maximum 'Tongue Weight' is 75 Kg or 165 lbs

[John@CdnRockies]

I can provide some practical experience in terms of stability of the AWD system on our '04 (this is the same unit as in the '06 model year). I once slipped off the main ramp (quite steep) at our island and unknowingly had put two wheels in shale (tiny pebbles). It was 20 minutes between parking the car and bringing the boat to the trailer on a rising tide (I didn't realize that). I thought I was done for as the tide had covered the exhaust and the pebbles were being moved by the water. Despite pulling almost 3,500 pounds up a steep ramp, the XC-70 AWD system ensured a clean pull with hardly any wheel spin. WOW.

Later I attended a Volvo-school demo of AWD control. The mechanics dug two huge holes (opposite sides) whereby the car was suspended with two wheels in the air and two on dirt. We stopped the cars fully (put them in park to let out our passenger), then proceeded to drive through the holes with our observer checking for wheel spin. There was almost no slippage (the '04 AWD is supposed to halt slippage at 1/7th rotation). I got to try it in reverse as well. Again, no slippage on any of the AWD cars

Being an owner of a Jeep, I was really impressed.

John

[XCovlov70]

I can provide some practical experience in terms of stability of the AWD system on our '04 (this is the same unit as in the '06 model year). I once slipped off the main ramp (quite steep) at our island and unknowingly had put two wheels in shale (tiny pebbles). It was 20 minutes between parking the car and bringing the boat to the trailer on a rising tide (I didn't realize that). I thought I was done for as the tide had covered the exhaust and the pebbles were being moved by the water. Despite pulling almost 3,500 pounds up a steep ramp, the XC-70 AWD system ensured a clean pull with hardly any wheel spin. WOW.

Later I attended a Volvo-school demo of AWD control. The mechanics dug two huge holes (opposite sides) whereby the car was suspended with two wheels in the air and two on dirt. We stopped the cars fully (put them in park to let out our passenger), then proceeded to drive through the holes with our observer checking for wheel spin. There was almost no slippage (the '04 AWD is supposed to halt slippage at 1/7th rotation). I got to try it in reverse as well. Again, no slippage on any of the AWD cars

Being an owner of a Jeep, I was really impressed.

John

Reading that John, I will be sorely tempted to try our XC70 on some rather 'challenging parts/sections' next time we go off, but initially without the 'Tin Tent' on the back! [thumbup][thumbup]

[phlegm]

I checked the Drivers Handbook for the braked trailer weight limit over here in the UK for a D5 (205Bhp) XC70 and it turns out to be:

2100 Kg which equates to 4620 lbs

Maximum 'Tongue Weight' is 75 Kg or 165 lbs

So, Volvo head office got back to me, and confirmed Max tongue weight is 75kg/165 lbs.

Still doesn't jive with Max braked trailer weight, if you want to put at least 10% of the weight on the hitch.

Our conversation:

"Sir, I've confirmed with our technical group that 165 lbs the maximum tongue weight, and the manual is correct."

-"OK, but as we discussed when I called earlier, the vehicle is rated to tow a maximum of 3300 lbs if the trailer has brakes, correct?"

"Yes, that is also correct."

-"So, what I don't understand, is that you tyically need to have at least 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue to prevent sway. In the case of a braked trailer weighing 3300 lbs, that's 330 lbs. How can I safely tow that trailer if I can only put 165 lbs on the hitch?"

"I'm sorry sir, that's all I can tell you."

-"But, you understand what I'm asking right?"

"I think so, but I have nothing else to tell you."

-"Has anyone ever asked about this before? I can't be the only person."

"No, sir, you're the first person to ask us."

Anyway, I give up. Should anyone else be able to explain this to me, I'd be appreciative. In the meantime I give up.

[XCovlov70]

So, Volvo head office got back to me, and confirmed Max tongue weight is 75kg/165 lbs.

Still doesn't jive with Max braked trailer weight, if you want to put at least 10% of the weight on the hitch.

Our conversation:

"Sir, I've confirmed with our technical group that 165 lbs the maximum tongue weight, and the manual is correct."

-"OK, but as we discussed when I called earlier, the vehicle is rated to tow a maximum of 3300 lbs if the trailer has brakes, correct?"

"Yes, that is also correct."

-"So, what I don't understand, is that you tyically need to have at least 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue to prevent sway. In the case of a braked trailer weighing 3300 lbs, that's 330 lbs. How can I safely tow that trailer if I can only put 165 lbs on the hitch?"

"I'm sorry sir, that's all I can tell you."

-"But, you understand what I'm asking right?"

"I think so, but I have nothing else to tell you."

-"Has anyone ever asked about this before? I can't be the only person."

"No, sir, you're the first person to ask us."

Anyway, I give up. Should anyone else be able to explain this to me, I'd be appreciative. In the meantime I give up.

It may be that Volvo are assuming that every trailer hitch now comes with built in 'dampers' (like small disc brake pads) so that when you close the trailer hitch this action clamps the hitch onto the towball eliminating any 'sway' unless you do something wrong while towing. :eek:

We do still get what I would call 'plain' trailer hitches with no anti-sway pads fitted but they seem to be fitted to the cheaper end of the trailer market.