I did something risky yesterday to my cylinders.

[Allen]

So I was reading on another forum about how picky Volvos are about their spark plugs, and that factory plugs work best, and not using them can cause some serious mayhem.

I've been running NGK V-Powers for about six months, and though I haven't had any real issues, I've felt that the car wasn't running as well as it should.

So I bought a new set of plugs from the dealer (most expensive set of plugs I've ever bought), and got to work yesterday.

I'm gonna tell you guys about the strange things I encountered, and finally get to the point of this thread.

After I removed the turbo top tube, I noticed oil inside the tube at the turbo end, and there was oil in the turbo inlet, too. Not sludged oil, but fresh clean oil as if it had been circulating through there. Is this normal?

I wiped up all the oil I could reach, and moved on.

I removed the strut brace, too. I noticed that the top engine mount was loose as hell! The rubber insert was not rotten and falling apart, but it sure as heck didn't give a tight fit in the engine mount bracket. Is this rubber insert supposed to be tight as a drum, or loose as meat curtains?

Then I start pulling coil packs and plugs. Coils looked great, set them aside. Pulled plugs, plugs looked correct: light brown color and clean cathode.

I looked down into the spark plug holes and noticed some serious dirt build up in number 2. I saw dirt and sand laying around the circumference of the hole. I was like [sly].

So I extracted some of the debris with a magnetic pick-up tool. Yeah, some of the stuff stuck to the magnet. I got the rest out with a long screw driver and rag over the tip. I would've preferred to vacuum it out, but didn't have that capability.

So I then decided to have a look inside the cylinders. Luckily the dirtiest hole, number 2, was the piston that was at the top, so I could easily see that it was covered in black crusty carbon. I was like [mad2].

I could see the other pistons, and they were fine, but number 2 was wrong, and I'd love to know why. [cussing]

So I got a bright idea. I decided it would be a great thing to load the cylinders with Amsoil Powerfoam and let it sit while I keep working. So I did just that. I flooded the cylinders, and watched to see if any of them would bleed out. I expected number 2 to bleed out the fluid around the rings, but it didn't. It stayed flooded.

I was kind of worried that I wouldn't be able to start the car, but I've used Powerfoam before, and it is fully combustible. I didn't know how else to loosen the carbon from the piston heads so efficiently as spraying directly in. Nonetheless, the car started up just fine (minus the sputtering at first).

So I checked the gaps, they were all at .028, then I loaded the plugs with a light coat of anti-sieze and installed. Here's a detail that I truly am worried about. Plugs normally have a metal crush gasket, right? You crank them down until you feel the gasket crush, then you fully torque, right?

I know this is not an old iron block, and you've got to be very careful with torque, so as to not destroy the threads in the head. Two of the plugs got to a nice tight torque, then slipped, and didn't reach high tightness again. I didn't go any further because I didn't know if I had just stripped the threads. I hate all this delicate ****![cussing]

If I need to go back in and re-tighten the plugs, I will. Will someone please tell me that I didn't strip the threads? [nonono]

So I get it all back together, then decide that I want to remove the MAF and clean the **** out of it. I bought a set of tamper-proof Torx bits and then failed to loosen the screws holding the sensor in the inlet tube. They were stripped from someone before me. See? All this delicate ****![mad2]

So I just sprayed the sensor from the filter-side, and called it good.

The delicateness of these cars drives me crazy, but the way it all fits together amazes me. I'm so used to car parts not fitting, and requiring gobs of monkey-torque just to get screw holes to align and so forth. These Volvos are screwed together beautifully.

The car's idle is much smoother now, and is running much zippy-er. With a fresh drain/fill of ATF, and now these new factory plugs, that rumble I could feel at stoplights in drive has essentially vanished. But the best thing is the change to that lag in throttle response. I was starting to thing that drive-by-wire sucked because of that lag, but it's gone now, so drive-by-wire is good enough.

Now I need to figure out if that top engine mount is shot or not.

I can't think of any other issues within this job. Thanx for reading, and any input would be appreciated. [cool2]

[Chilled Man]

Sounds like you might of stripped them out but ?

also you need this
http://www.ipdusa.com/Volvo-S70V70-1998-2000/Engine/Engine-Mounts/Upper-Engine-Stabilizer-Mount/p-128-364-763-229/

[Allen]

Sounds like you might of stripped them out but ?

also you need this
http://www.ipdusa.com/Volvo-S70V70-1998-2000/Engine/Engine-Mounts/Upper-Engine-Stabilizer-Mount/p-128-364-763-229/


Man, I hope I didn't strip out the threads. [nonono]

I forgot to mention that I picked up a new tool that I put to good use during this job: a speed handle. I'm in the Navy, work on F/A-18C fighter jets, and use speed handles in essentially every repair procedure. The speed handle is indispensable, and saves so much time and effort.

I emailed IPD and requested the addition of the speed handle to their collection. Just got a reply stating that the speed handle will very likely be on the site soon. :)

During this job, it came in very handy in removing/reinstalling the cowling screws. [thumbup] You can buy one at Northern Tool for around $13.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200304109_200304109

[Chilled Man]

intresting I just got a small 12v Bosch drill :D have the bits to fit the sockets and go :D

[Aviator]

and that factory plugs work best, and not using them can cause some serious mayhem.

Pure $hit.


I've been running NGK V-Powers for about six months

NGL platinums or iridiums work quite nicely.


After I removed the turbo top tube, I noticed oil inside the tube at the turbo end, and there was oil in the turbo inlet, too. Not sludged oil, but fresh clean oil as if it had been circulating through there. Is this normal?

Yes.



cathode.

Center electrode....cathodes aren't part of spark plugs.


I could see the other pistons, and they were fine, but number 2 was wrong, and I'd love to know why.

Injector may be hanging open ever so slightly enough to make richer than normal mixture.


Here's a detail that I truly am worried about. Plugs normally have a metal crush gasket, right? You crank them down until you feel the gasket crush, then you fully torque, right?

I know this is not an old iron block, and you've got to be very careful with torque, so as to not destroy the threads in the head. Two of the plugs got to a nice tight torque, then slipped, and didn't reach high tightness again.

Check the old plugs and make sure the gaskets are on them. Sometimes the gasket will stick to the head without you knowing when removing plugs, and then something doesn't seem right when putting new plugs back in.



The delicateness of these cars drives me crazy, but the way it all fits together amazes me. I'm so used to car parts not fitting, and requiring gobs of monkey-torque just to get screw holes to align and so forth.


It's called precision.....something only the Europeans and Japanese can do right.


]I forgot to mention that I picked up a new tool that I put to good use during this job: a speed handle. I'm in the Navy, work on F/A-18C fighter jets, and use speed handles in essentially every repair procedure. The speed handle is indispensable, and saves so much time and effort.


I'm laughing and shaking my head reading your posts, and now you tell us you're a Hornet handler?? Which makes me wonder even more why I didn't once see the term "TORQUE WRENCH"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Speed handles have a time and place to be used..........spark plug installation isn't one of them, especially with an aluminum head. It would seem the speed handle, in this case, has caused you a lot of worry!!

Good luck with that engine; the $13 deal on a speed handle may have cost you hundreds in cylinder head repair!! :D:D

Sorry for being blunt...just my nature. :p

Dave.

[Allen]

Pure $hit.
NGL platinums or iridiums work quite nicely.
Yes.
Center electrode....cathodes aren't part of spark plugs.
Injector may be hanging open ever so slightly enough to make richer than normal mixture.
Check the old plugs and make sure the gaskets are on them. Sometimes the gasket will stick to the head without you knowing when removing plugs, and then something doesn't seem right when putting new plugs back in.
It's called precision.....something only the Europeans and Japanese can do right.
I'm laughing and shaking my head reading your posts, and now you tell us you're a Hornet handler?? Which makes me wonder even more why I didn't once see the term "TORQUE WRENCH"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Speed handles have a time and place to be used..........spark plug installation isn't one of them, especially with an aluminum head. It would seem the speed handle, in this case, has caused you a lot of worry!!

Good luck with that engine; the $13 deal on a speed handle may have cost you hundreds in cylinder head repair!! :D:D

Sorry for being blunt...just my nature. :p

Dave.


Thanx for the feedback, Dave. :)

I didn't use the speed handle to install the plugs, just the cowlings on top of the head.

It saved a lot of time.

I don't own a torque wrench....yet.

The injector idea is a good one. Thanx. [thumbup]

By the way......

"The central electrode is usually the one designed to eject the electrons (the cathode) because it is the hottest (normally) part of the plug;......"

From Wikipedia: http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:6YzT3eVi6k0J:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_plug+spark+plug+cathode&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[sjonnie]

I don't own a torque wrench....yet.
Don't wait any longer, you need one, to pretty much anything. 22ft/lbs 30Nm for spark plugs. Always amazes me how little torque that is, I guarantee without one you will have over tightened.

[Chilled Man]

Pure $hit.
NGL platinums or iridiums work quite nicely.
.

:rolleyes:

[billr99]

Hmmmm, I use a speed handle for plugs, removing and installing. Always have unless I couldn't get it aligned right, such as on my Rovers and the V-6 Merkur I had. But I NEVER use it to tighten the plugs, as I always use a torque wrench. The point is to be careful and develop a feel for the tools. I've seen plugs put in too tight with everything from a regular 3/8 rachet to an air rachet :eek:. The appropriate range torque wrench is the most valuable tool you can have IMHO.

Cheers,

Bill

[02Ocean224]

Harbor Freight 20 bones.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/retail_stores.taf#VA

[Aviator]

"The central electrode is usually the one designed to eject the electrons (the cathode) because it is the hottest (normally) part of the plug;......"

I see where you're going with th cathode thing. A spark plug center electrode is not a true example of a cathode in that the plug doesn't allow current to flow from negative to positive (like a cathode) when in operation.....only positive to negative; negative being the side electrode.

Dave.

[Aviator]

22ft/lbs 30Nm for spark plugs. Always amazes me how little torque that is

How little????? That's a lot for a spark plug going into an aluminum head!!! 15-16 lbf/ft is more respectable.

Dave.

[Allen]

I'm buying a torque wrench tomorrow.

[Willy]

A torque wrench is a very useful tool, I have a small collection :o
Willy

[Adrian]

Haha, so cute :D

[Willy]

I have to be careful though, not to let this torque thing get out of control :D :D
Willy

[JayPinNC]

I did my plugs yesterday too - how funny.

#2 was a pain to get out for me, too. In fact, I almost gave up, thinking I was going to break something. I ended up spraying some WD-40 down there and moving on to the other plugs. #2 was also the dirtiest - I don't know if it would be called the 'proper' tool, but I used my Vac-guyver (if you've seen the pics, you'll know what I mean) and fastened a tube (small piece cut from my Gibbons tube) and just made it freaking work.

Got over 90% of the crud out while the plug was still in there and got the rest after some very, VERY painstaking socket turning to get the plug out. It got so bad, I had to actually stop to ask myself if I was turning the socket right way. I just kept going back and forth...."loosen" and tighten until whatever was putting up a fight, let go.

Putting the new plug back in couldn't have been easier. I suspect it was the anti-seize that I used that helped lube the threads some.


As for your worry that you stripped the threads - A few times while I was hand-turning (with an extension+socket and just my hand) I noticed a few spots where a few plugs got tight...I resisted the urge to grab the socket handle and just finesses the plug in...backing the plug out a little and then turning down some more...the 'false tight' happened well after the point where I KNEW I had the threads lined up, so I wasn't too worried and I did have to use some decent hand strength (maybe 30nm?) to keep turning...one or to got loose again and then came to rest when crush washer hit engine block. Maybe that's what happened to you? Damn I hope so.

Oh - I had oil in my top tube, too. Looking for any insight on that.

BTW - "Loose as meat curtains" <----- love it!

[Allen]

I did my plugs yesterday too - how funny.

#2 was a pain to get out for me, too. In fact, I almost gave up, thinking I was going to break something. I ended up spraying some WD-40 down there and moving on to the other plugs. #2 was also the dirtiest - I don't know if it would be called the 'proper' tool, but I used my Vac-guyver (if you've seen the pics, you'll know what I mean) and fastened a tube (small piece cut from my Gibbons tube) and just made it freaking work.

Got over 90% of the crud out while the plug was still in there and got the rest after some very, VERY painstaking socket turning to get the plug out. It got so bad, I had to actually stop to ask myself if I was turning the socket right way. I just kept going back and forth...."loosen" and tighten until whatever was putting up a fight, let go.

Putting the new plug back in couldn't have been easier. I suspect it was the anti-seize that I used that helped lube the threads some.


As for your worry that you stripped the threads - A few times while I was hand-turning (with an extension+socket and just my hand) I noticed a few spots where a few plugs got tight...I resisted the urge to grab the socket handle and just finesses the plug in...backing the plug out a little and then turning down some more...the 'false tight' happened well after the point where I KNEW I had the threads lined up, so I wasn't too worried and I did have to use some decent hand strength (maybe 30nm?) to keep turning...one or to got loose again and then came to rest when crush washer hit engine block. Maybe that's what happened to you? Damn I hope so.

Oh - I had oil in my top tube, too. Looking for any insight on that.

BTW - "Loose as meat curtains" <----- love it!

How did your piston surfaces look?

[JayPinNC]

I think I had #4 at the top. I know when I looked, I didn't have an "oh crap" moment. But it sure wasn't sparkling clean, either. I never got enough light in to see the others.

One thing I noticed...and it's probably anecdotal, but the car shifts much more smoothly and I haven't even changed the transmission fluid yet. It starts WAAAAAYYYy easier, too.

But that engine mount bushing thing someone else mentioned just got put on my list...I can see through the cracks in it.

[Allen]

I think I had #4 at the top. I know when I looked, I didn't have an "oh crap" moment. But it sure wasn't sparkling clean, either. I never got enough light in to see the others.

One thing I noticed...and it's probably anecdotal, but the car shifts much more smoothly and I haven't even changed the transmission fluid yet. It starts WAAAAAYYYy easier, too.

But that engine mount bushing thing someone else mentioned just got put on my list...I can see through the cracks in it.


Did you install factory plugs? They seem like well-made plugs. I wonder how they stack up against the high-tech stuff from brand names?

[JayPinNC]

Factory plugs. Too much cross-talk BS for me to read through to figure what worked for somebody else.

I'm not concerned about how they stack up in the packaging. I care how they work in my car. Maybe one day I'll get brave and go beyond Volvo, but until then, I need to play it safe and go with something I know will work.

[sjonnie]

Did you install factory plugs? They seem like well-made plugs. I wonder how they stack up against the high-tech stuff from brand names?
Factory plugs are Bosch Yttrium, doesn't make any difference whether you overpay through the dealer for them or buy them somewhere else.

[kamiar]

Factory plugs are Bosch Yttrium, doesn't make any difference whether you overpay through the dealer for them or buy them somewhere else.

I thought they are Champions!

Who can confirm which ones are they?

[JayPinNC]

See? This is what I mean...I don't have time to research which non OEM plug won't kill my car. The added $ I spend on OEM is paid for with the time I can dedicate to my work. Sometimes, peace of mind is worth the price of admission.

But - there are exceptions. Mobil ATF 3309 being one of them.

Still laughing at meat curtains, by the way.

[Allen]

See? This is what I mean...I don't have time to research which non OEM plug won't kill my car. The added $ I spend on OEM is paid for with the time I can dedicate to my work. Sometimes, peace of mind is worth the price of admission.

But - there are exceptions. Mobil ATF 3309 being one of them.

Still laughing at meat curtains, by the way.

Or roast beef. :D

[JayPinNC]

Dave,

You replied yes to Allen's question about oil in the top tube - that the condiiton is normal.

I don't doubt your answer, but in my quest to know as much as possible about the car I'm curious as to why it's there? Does it lubricate something?
Quote:
After I removed the turbo top tube, I noticed oil inside the tube at the turbo end, and there was oil in the turbo inlet, too. Not sludged oil, but fresh clean oil as if it had been circulating through there. Is this normal?
Yes.

[Aviator]

Yeah, that's pretty normal to have some oil in there. All turbos weep and sweat a bit of oil from around the bearing seal/s from the oil circiut that lubes the turbo bearing/s. If you've got fresh oil in there, then maybe you've got a full blown leak. What I would do is take that pipe off, including the rubber joint, and clean it all up thoroughly so there is no oil. Clean at the turbo outlet as well. Put it all back together and clean off the oil on the back of the head too. Take the car for a snort on the highway and nail it, get some decent speed up and drive it like you stole it. Get the turbo spooling up (you'll feel the boost come on), then get it home and park it. Let it cool for a half hour or so then take it all apart again and see what you got in there for oil. Also, while you're thrashing the car, keep an eye in the rearview mirror for any blue smoke.

Dave.

[JayPinNC]

Thanks for the advice. I'll get on it this weekend.

I'm always on the lookout for blue lights, so blue smoke won't be a stretch.

EDIT: Our cops in NC have blue lights on their cars. When I first saw them, I wondered why they didn't have any snowplows on them.

I also keep en eye out for Blue Light. Just FYI.

[Allen]

I'm going to completely re-do the spark plug job this weekend. My car's running very strong now, but is idling roughly, and the mileage is dropping. It was 18.6, now it's 17.

[Aviator]

I also keep en eye out for Blue Light

We've got plenty here!! I used to drink a lot of Blue, then my best friend and I started making our own beer about a year ago. Once you get into that, there's no going back to commercial beer, and there's NOTHING like a nice cold pint of a brew you've made yourself!! I'm bottling a west coast IPA tomorrow, as a matter of fact!!

Dave.

[Aviator]

I'm going to completely re-do the spark plug job this weekend

Good luck...hopefully you get off lucky.


My car's running very strong now, but is idling roughly, and the mileage is dropping.

Sounds contradictory to me!!

Dave.

[Allen]

Good luck...hopefully you get off lucky.



Sound contradictory to me!!

Dave.


Me, too! I put some extra torque on the top engine mount because it was so loose, and I'm wondering if engine vibes are translating to the cabin more efficiently. :)

[JayPinNC]

We've got plenty here!! I used to drink a lot of Blue, then my best friend and I started making our own beer about a year ago. Once you get into that, there's no going back to commercial beer, and there's NOTHING like a nice cold pint of a brew you've made yourself!! I'm bottling a west coast IPA tomorrow, as a matter of fact!!

Dave.

I need to start brewing down here. When I lived in Canada we bought a half-dozen old Whiskey bottles, filled them up 1/4 with distilled water and rolled them 1/4 turn every week for a year. Filtered it through a coffee machine and voila! - DIY Whiskey.

These days you'd end up in jail...if you got caught.

I'm definitely interested in brewing my own beer though. The beer-water down here is killing me.

[billr99]

I need to start brewing down here. When I lived in Canada we bought a half-dozen old Whiskey bottles, filled them up 1/4 with distilled water and rolled them 1/4 turn every week for a year. Filtered it through a coffee machine and voila! - DIY Whiskey.

These days you'd end up in jail...if you got caught.

I'm definitely interested in brewing my own beer though. The beer-water down here is killing me.

You must be a Maritimer, eh?

Cheers,

Bill

[JayPinNC]

You must be a Maritimer, eh?

Cheers,

Bill

I wish. Southern Ontario. Brantford to be exact.

[billr99]

I wish. Southern Ontario. Brantford to be exact.

Know exactly where it is. The university I worked for had a branch campus in Brantford so I was there a few times sorting things out on the IT side of it.

But anyway, we won't hold the fact that you are an Upper Canadian against you. :D Especially since you do that whiskey thing.

[JayPinNC]

Know exactly where it is. The university I worked for had a branch campus in Brantford so I was there a few times sorting things out on the IT side of it.

But anyway, we won't hold the fact that you are an Upper Canadian against you. :D Especially since you do that whiskey thing.


Was it Laurier? I hear they have a good program there. Wish they were there when I was in school. I went to college in Toronto.

[billr99]

Was it Laurier? I hear they have a good program there. Wish they were there when I was in school. I went to college in Toronto.

Nope, Nipissing from up in North Bay. They had a BEd program in Brantford and were located in the old bank and phone company buildings on the square. Laurier had the old Library and 3 or 4 more buildings also on the square. I was responsible for all of Nipissing's technology on all their campuses for 7 years.

So beyond the weather what got you to NC?

Cheers,

Bill

[JayPinNC]

Nipissing - of course!

As for what got me down here, that's a long story that involves the Internet, cargo planes and an overnight train ride to Montreal.

PM me your email address if the suspense is killing you! [cool2]