Yet another ATF flush question...

[01XC70Idaho]

Hi,

I have read and read on the fourm about the Gibbons method ATF flush which I just did last weekend on my 2001 XC70 with 95,000 miles. I picked up the clear tube at Cal-Ranch for a couple bucks and used Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF (grey bottle with the Toyota Type T-IV printed on back). I could tell an IMMEDIATE difference going into drive, from reverse to drive, and shifting from 3rd down to 1st when decelerating. The flush made a huge difference!

My question lies in the topping off of the ATF... When I did the flush I dumped the pan and measured it. It was exactly 3 quarts (from what I read that should have been the full mark). I then added 3 quarts, and did a flush of 6 more quarts... 2 out, 2 in, 2 out, 2 in, 2 out, 2 in. At that point I would think it would be at the desired level - 9 quarts out, 9 quarts in.

The issue is, I've had to add another quart to get it to read just above the cold mark when it's hot. I drove it last night for about 20 miles then immediatly checked it when it was running and it was reading about a third of the way between the cold line and the hot line. I'm worried to put more in because the weather is very cold here and I'm thinking maybe the tranny is not heating up all the way... I don't want to overfill.

The temp gauge on the car is reading normal for the car to be warmed up (right in the middle) but the outside temp is 20-30 degrees. Will I be ok to top it off or should I leave it alone until the outside temp gets up a bit higher?

[Allen]

I'd leave it alone. You say you've installed the correct amount in accordance with manual specs, right? And it's running great, right? Just keep the extra quart in the back in case you discover you actually need it.

[01XC70Idaho]

I followed the directions to the Gibbons method for flushing it. I didn't check the level before I started but I measured exactly 3 quarts that came out of the pan when I drained it. I think that's what it holds at full capacity.

I put the exact same amount back in as I took out plus one quart. So technically I'm a quart over right now.

It's shifting fine so I think I'm going to leave it for now and maybe on a warm day take it for a run down the freeway and check it after 30 or 40 miles.

One more question... I've read some posts about guys doing like a 12-16 quart flush. I only did 9 quarts plus the extra to top it off. Did I do enough or should I have done a few more quarts?

[billr99]

I followed the directions to the Gibbons method for flushing it. I didn't check the level before I started but I measured exactly 3 quarts that came out of the pan when I drained it. I think that's what it holds at full capacity.

I put the exact same amount back in as I took out plus one quart. So technically I'm a quart over right now.

It's shifting fine so I think I'm going to leave it for now and maybe on a warm day take it for a run down the freeway and check it after 30 or 40 miles.

One more question... I've read some posts about guys doing like a 12-16 quart flush. I only did 9 quarts plus the extra to top it off. Did I do enough or should I have done a few more quarts?
Total capacity for the AW tranny is about 7.5 litres. When I do a drain-and-fill I dump about 3.6 litres, so I add that much back in. You'll be OK as long as you put back in what came out and then you check it after getting it fully to operating temp.

Cheers,

Bill

[PierreC]

Dumb question but was teh engine running when you checked the level?:confused:

Pierre

[sjonnie]

In my experience, if you turn the engine off at the very moment you see the first bubble in the flush tube and then add back 2qt of fluid, the level will be spot on.

"The difference between the MAX and MIN volumes is 0.2 liters. Check the oil temperature in the transmission.
At room temperature (+20 °C) the oil level is close to the MIN mark on the "cold area".
At room temperature (+20 °C) and low oil level the oil barely reaches the dipstick.
The "cold range" (+40 °C) is reached after approximately 15 minutes idling in the workshop, while the "hot range" (+80 °C) is reached after approximately 30 minutes highway driving at an air temperature above +15 °C."

[JRL]

Well, that's wrong.
You're always supposed to check with the engine RUNNING

[BillAileo]

I believe sjonnie's reference to turning the engine off is in reference to using the "Gibbons" method of replacing fluid. He's talking about watching the plastic tubing and shutting off at sight of the first bubble in each cycle of fluid replacement. Of course, confirming that this process actually results in a "spot on" level within the transmission requires later reading the dipstick with the the engine running.

[01XC70Idaho]

Yes, I'm checking it with the engine running. I get it to operating temp... drive 10-15 miles... pull in the garage and immediately check it with the engine running.

When I did the flush I used an old winshield washer fluid bottle to flush the old stuff into. Before I started I measured with water and drew lines on it with a sharpie to show the one, two, three, and four quart marks. Every time I flushed it would hit the two quart mark just as the bubbles started to show.

It's running pretty good now, I'm going to leave it until the weather warms up just to be sure not only the motor is up to temp but also the tranny. I've added one quart more than I took out so I'm a bit worried about topping it off to what it shows as full.

[sjonnie]

One more question... I've read some posts about guys doing like a 12-16 quart flush. I only did 9 quarts plus the extra to top it off. Did I do enough or should I have done a few more quarts?
I usually do enough to use up 12qt of fluid, i.e. one case. Just ordered the parts to install a transmission cooler and a Magnafine filter, so I'm hoping from now on I can just dump and refill every 10K or so. Actually, it seems a bit ridiculous how often the fluid needs changing in these transmissions, my Dodge truck never had a problem with transmission fluid, I suspect the factory transmission cooler helped. Lol, what I save in gas with the Volvo I spend on transmission fluid!! I should put a temp gauge on the transmission cooler lines just to see how hot that darn thing gets.

[Allen]

I thought Volvo recommends to NEVER change the tranny fluid?








:D

[billr99]

I thought Volvo recommends to NEVER change the tranny fluid?
:D

That's right, they don't list a schedule service unless the car is used in extreme conditions or towing. That's because Volvo loves to replace blown-out, over priced transmissions and have generally pissed-off customers. You don't want to build a car that lasts forever as you will never sell anymore. I guess Volvo figured that out with the old 200 and 700 series.

Other than some kind of engineering arrogance, I can't understand their logic. Even Mercedes has backed off of their lifetime fluid statements and has gone to a 60K miles interval on their transmission. As we all know by now, there are no such thing as lifetime fluids for any kind of device that involves gear-to-gear contacts, sliding surfaces, high temperatures, etc. Of course, if you consider 75K miles a lifetime perhaps there are lifetime fluids:confused:

Cheers,

Bill

[skibo]

... Just ordered the parts to install a transmission cooler...

Please let us know how that goes - I don't think I've seen anyone else add a cooler, and I've seen someone post that it was difficult to even get the filter in the circuit due to tight packaging. I'd consider doing this also.

[lexefx]

Please let us know how that goes

Subscribed. I tow often enough I'd like one beyond our "just kidding" stock one.

Alex

[sjonnie]

Please let us know how that goes - I don't think I've seen anyone else add a cooler, and I've seen someone post that it was difficult to even get the filter in the circuit due to tight packaging. I'd consider doing this also.

Over at Volvospeed they have a page detailing the install of a transmission cooler, into a an 'R' model? (Which doesn't make sense, I thought 'R' models had coolers as standard). Anyway, here are the links.
http://volvospeed.com/Mods/tran_cooler_mount.htm
http://volvospeed.com/Mods/tran_cooler_plumb.htm

This is the OEM solution that fits infront of the DS wheel well, it's a tiny cooler and can't get much airflow, total cost in true Volvo style $670 :)
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7500/image001bb.jpg

IPD also have a solution, but for $350 it still seems a tad extortionate.
http://www.ipdusa.com/uploads/images_skus/14070.jpg


Interestingly the IPD site claims Volvo sold a 'cut and clamp' kit to install a Volvo transmission cooler, but that was discontinuted in 2008. I never heard of that, but anyway, they say it costs $450, lol. So I ordered my own 'cut and clamp' kit consisting of a Hayden bar and plate cooler for $50 with $25 worth of transmission oil hose and some hose couplers and clamps. I'll take some pics when I do the install, this weekend hopefully.

[sjonnie]

Wow, this is so easy I wish I'd done it a year ago already. I bought a Hayden Transaver Plus (http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=2&Product_Code=OC-1677&Category_Code=hayden-transaver&Product_Count=1) for $47 and a 3/8" hose splice fitting (http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=2&Product_Code=13028&Category_Code=cooler-fittings&Product_Count=4). I used a Magnefine filter (http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=2&Product_Code=M010CB&Category_Code=inline-filter&Product_Count=2) to splice the other hose.

I preassembled the hoses onto the cooler.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9607/grandcanyon004.th.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/i/grandcanyon004.jpg/)

Then mounted the cooler sideways infront of the intercooler on the DS so the hoses come around the side. There is a rubber air dam there which you can just push out of the way and push the hoses up. It takes some work, but it squeezes in. Once in, I wriggled the mounting wires through the intercooler/radiator to the back and pushed on the tabs.

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8033/grandcanyon002.th.jpg (http://img502.imageshack.us/i/grandcanyon002.jpg/)

For the plumbing, the top return line from the radiator goes through the Magnefine filter to the bottom hose of the transmission cooler. The top hose I spliced back to the other half of the transmission cooler return line.

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5246/grandcanyon088.th.jpg (http://img69.imageshack.us/i/grandcanyon088.jpg/)

The only problem I had was I couldn't jam the Volvo hose onto all three barbs of the splice junction, it seems less flexible than the new hose or maybe the ID is just a little smaller. Anyway it's the lowest pressure junction of the entire setup and is on really tight, secured with a clamp. Top it up with transmission fluid and away you go, hopefully to never change the transmission fluid again :)

[01XC70Idaho]

So I decided to do just a dump and top off as a follow up to my flush awhile back. When I dumped the pan I got 2.3 quarts out so I guess I was running a little low. I put 3 back in because I read the pan holds 3 quarts.

I'll check the level the next time I get it up to operating temp which will be the first leg of a drive to Washington this weekend.

My question... technically I should be right at operating level shouldn't I? The pan holds like 3.1 quarts or something like that?

[wgriswold]

I wouldn't trust anything but the dip stick and I would only drive far enough to warm up the fluid before checking.

[wgriswold]

At some time in the past I was told that auxiliary transmission coolers should be installed before the radiator because transmissions were designed to operate at the coolant temperature and putting it after the radiator had the potential to return fluid that was too cool. Is that right?

[sjonnie]

At some time in the past I was told that auxiliary transmission coolers should be installed before the radiator because transmissions were designed to operate at the coolant temperature and putting it after the radiator had the potential to return fluid that was too cool. Is that right?
I don't think so, most plumbing diagrams and both the Volvo and IPD product plumb the cooler after the radiator.
http://www.uhaul.com/hitches/transmission-cooler-animated.gif
If you install an oversize cooler or live in a very cold climate where too much cooling could occur you can install a temperature bypass that isolates the transmission cooler until the oil reaches a certain temp.

[01XC70Idaho]

I ran the car this morning up to operating temp... left it running in neutral and checked the tranny level. It was perfectly on the "hot" area of the dipstick. Apparently dumping the pan and adding 3 quarts puts you right where you need to be.