Bevel Gear and Final Drive oil

[kamiar]

Is it OK to use this for Bevel Gear http://walmart.ca/Canada-Automotive.jsp?selection=listingDetails&assetId=50411&imageId=69519&departmentId=189&categoryId=1179&tabId=14

And this for Final Drive http://walmart.ca/Canada-Automotive.jsp?selection=listingDetails&assetId=50410&imageId=69517&departmentId=189&categoryId=1179&tabId=14

Or can i use the first Syntetic one for both???

The specs are the same as recommended by Volvo and the price is less than 1/8 of Volvo fluids...

[sjonnie]

Yes, any synthetic 75W-90 gear oil should be fine.

[billr99]

Yes, any synthetic 75W-90 gear oil should be fine.

That is, adhering to a GL-5 spec.

Cheers,

Bill

[kamiar]

thanks,

what about the final drive? which one have you used?

[billr99]

thanks,

what about the final drive? which one have you used?

Same deal. 75w-90 to a GL-5 spec. Actually, I use the synthetic gear oil they sell at CT. From what I was told its Esso (i.e. Mobil) syn oil. Has worked fine in everything I've used it in including this XC.

Cheers,

Bill

[gonzomech]

for the price of off brand gear oil vs. how often one does it (every 60K miles) why not just get the volvo fluids? a new bevel gear costs ~$1500.00 to repair at the dealer...new rear diff. ~$4000.00...rebuilt transmission ~$5000.00. for me $20-$30 every 2 years for bevel or rear diff. oil and ~$200 every year for transmission oil is cheap insurance!

for engine oil every 5K w/mobil 1...~$45. if you don't run synthetic AND your car has over say 40K miles use caution. synthetic oil MAY drive your engine too clean if you don't properly flush it before making the transition.

remember lubrication is the life's blood for your drive train...don't skimp! ok, off my mech. eng. soap box now!

gonzomech (2002 V70XC...169K miles)

p.s. while your at it throw some Chevron Techron concentrate in the fuel tank with every oil change (~$12). at 165K i did a pcv system change/clean for the 1st time and my valves were pristine! damn...can't seem to get off the box!!!

[kamiar]

I bought the Castrol Synthetic 75W 90 for 6 CAN per liter and a small pump for 15 CAN from Walmart, going to change the bevel gear oil tomorrow... will see how the final drive oil is, if it is not dirty i will not touch it.

The specs of this and Volvo oil are pretty close, the Amsoil oil spec are even closer but i didn't find it around...

[JayPinNC]

if you don't run synthetic AND your car has over say 40K miles use caution. synthetic oil MAY drive your engine too clean if you don't properly flush it before making the transition.

Could you define 'properly' please? I'm curious about your take on it.

Thanks.

[sjonnie]

why not just get the volvo fluids?
Well, you could say that about any repair. The point is, what they sell you for $35 is a bottle of synthetic gear oil that you could get for $7 round the corner. Now, if you're happy paying that much markup just for a fancy Volvo label that tells you that in the bottle is 75W-90 GL-5 synthetic gear oil go right ahead. Personally I find the Mobil1 label quite satisfactory.


$20-$30 every 2 years for bevel or rear diff. oil and ~$200 every year for transmission oil is cheap insurance!
It's not really insurance if the stuff in the bottle with the fancy Volvo label is identical to the stuff in the bottle with the Mobil1 label. You're just paying 4x the price for the Volvo label, absolutely not one thing more.

[kamiar]

Volvo bevel gear oil=46.52 CAN + Tax
Volvo final drive oil=27.57 CAN + Tax

I bought Castrol Syntec gear oil for 6 CAN, but i am reading a great "gear oil test report" right now, might worth searching and buying Amsoil i think 20 CAN...

[kamiar]

How to upload a 500KB PDF file on the forum?

[billr99]

for the price of off brand gear oil vs. how often one does it (every 60K miles) why not just get the volvo fluids? a new bevel gear costs ~$1500.00 to repair at the dealer...new rear diff. ~$4000.00...rebuilt transmission ~$5000.00. for me $20-$30 every 2 years for bevel or rear diff. oil and ~$200 every year for transmission oil is cheap insurance!

for engine oil every 5K w/mobil 1...~$45. if you don't run synthetic AND your car has over say 40K miles use caution. synthetic oil MAY drive your engine too clean if you don't properly flush it before making the transition.

remember lubrication is the life's blood for your drive train...don't skimp! ok, off my mech. eng. soap box now!

Volvo purchases "their" lubricants from suppliers obligated by contract to make those lubricants to a particular SAE specification. In this case, 75w-90 GL-5. Specifications are specifications, they are the Bible, and as long as you adhere to those same specifications when you buy gear lube you are within the same engineering realm as if you bought Volvo-label lube. Depending on what you buy, you are probably buying the same stuff from the same manufacturer anyway. False economy is bad, but in this case the robbery that Volvo attempts with their pricing of Volvo-labeled items that are commonly available is just plain theft. As a consumer you get nothing more. No more value for your dollar, no enhanced properties, nothing. I don't mine contributing to the North American economy, but I don't see Volvo as if it was AIG and I'm solely responsible for keeping them going by paying $20+ a litre for gear lube. A dollar wisely spent is required instead.

Cheers,

Bill

[kamiar]

https://www.amsoil.com/products/gearlubes/WhitePaper.aspx

[billr99]

https://www.amsoil.com/products/gearlubes/WhitePaper.aspx
Pretty interesting. If I read this right, Amsoil or Mobil 1 would be the best value in an overall performance versus dollar spent evaluation. Obviously the cheap stuff isn't going to do it for you. But worthy of note is that the OEM-labeled products (i.e. GM and Mopar) are significantly more expensive but not as good. GM missed it by a tick but who makes GM lubes? Mopar on the other hand was down there and the question also is who makes their stuff? By extension, who makes Volvo's stuff and where would it sit on this chart? Notice that both GM and Mopar fail in at least one category of tests versus consistent passes for Amsoil and Mobil.

In any case, it shows that OEM-labeled products are not necessarily the good choice and become even a worst choice if their pricing is as radically different to commonly available brands as Mopar's and GM's.

Cheers,

Bill

[gonzomech]

not everyone is an engineer...can read/fully grasp spec.'s...understand material variation...etc., etc.. for the average consumer and for the cost delta(s) why not put the ownership on the vendor...again cheap insurance.
volvo like any other manufacturer will look to exploint any "out" they can when they can.

[billr99]

not everyone is an engineer...can read/fully grasp spec.'s...understand material variation...etc., etc.. for the average consumer and for the cost delta(s) why not put the ownership on the vendor...again cheap insurance.
volvo like any other manufacturer will look to exploint any "out" they can when they can.

You don't t have to be an engineer to understand this study. A read of the overview to understand the the purpose and the last table to see who "won" and the conclusion. Pretty straight forward.

In any event, I wouldn't trust any OEM to always do the "right" thing. Costs for the product will always come into play as the producer of that product still needs to adhere to the requirements and specs of the OEM. The OEM, on the other hand, is trying to produce an acceptable quality product for the lowest cost. The point of being a business is ultimately to make money and the more the merrier. A perfect example of this is the current Toyota situation. I'm sure that they went to CTS for pedal assemblies not because they were nice guys but because they could produced the part, as spec'd by Toyota, for the cheapest overall cost per item. Not CTS' fault for the problem, but Toyota's in the end. And getting back to Volvo, their tranny maintenance schedule, or lack thereof, also shows that for whatever reason Volvo thought this was the best approach which obviously it is not. You don't see them stepping up to that mistake very often and replacing all the trannies that their "wisdom" has blown out. So does their choice in lubes indicate any better wisdom?

So Volvo, just as every other OEM, buys their lubes from whoever not because they make the ultimate product but because they meet a spec and they can do it at the cheapest price. Volvo puts their label on the product and then puts a retail price on it that they think the market will bear. Of course, they know that a substantial number of their customers will bring their cars to their dealer network as that is what Volvo's marketing studies tell them; and these folks will usually pay without question what is on the bill. Parts prices and service are almost gravy money for Volvo and their dealers.

But we are all smarter than that because we read this forum and a fair number of us do at least some of our own maintenance. So if you are going to work on your own wheels because you think you can do it better and/or cheaper than your local dealer; why not extend that thinking to the products that you buy to do that work? There are others out there, that is manufacturers of all the various bits and bobs that go into making a car and making it run, that will sell to you the exact same product meeting the same spec that they sell to Volvo. There are no contracts, service levels, procedural overheads that need to be built into the price of these products. Also there is an expanded competitive market in this part of the business, all factors driving the pricing to a more acceptable level. Because we are all smarter and have this forum to check up against, we can leverage all of that to extend our money, admittedly in small pieces some times, to making smarter choices that, in theory at least, will make your investment last longer, perform better, etc.. And a dollars is still a dollar and better in my pocket than in Volvo's.

Cheers,

Bill

[kamiar]

Agree with Bill, I think most of these oils are manufactured by 2-3 oil companies and the same base and specs, what makes all the differences are the additives, and its not that much anyway...

One more interesting point is that based on this research the synthetic 75w90 is performing far better than the 80w90 that Volvo has offered for the final drive but obviously cheaper, so one cannot go wrong to use 75w90 instead in both bevel gear and final drive.

just one thing, the 76w90 is synthetic and the Volvo final drive oil in mineral based, any thoughts?

[billr99]

Agree with Bill, I think most of these oils are manufactured by 2-3 oil companies and the same base and specs, what makes all the differences are the additives, and its not that much anyway...

One more interesting point is that based on this research the synthetic 75w90 is performing far better than the 80w90 that Volvo has offered for the final drive but obviously cheaper, so one cannot go wrong to use 75w90 instead in both bevel gear and final drive.

just one thing, the 76w90 is synthetic and the Volvo final drive oil in mineral based, any thoughts?

Probably more a question of costs as far as Volvo is concerned. That rear gear isn't nearly as stressed as the bevel and rear gears have been successfully using mineral lube forever without wholesale failures. If it works well, don't pay the cost for the more expensive stuff. Especially in the factory fill. Now with that said, I'm using syn lube in mine.

Cheers,

Bill

[kamiar]

Bill,

Did you use Castrol Syntec or Mobil1?
In both bevel and rear?
And how long ago?
Any problems like leakage or anything?

[billr99]

Bill,

Did you use Castrol Syntec or Mobil1?
In both bevel and rear?
And how long ago?
Any problems like leakage or anything?

I used Mobil 1 (actually about 70% Mobil 1 and 30% Formula from CT - its really Esso which is actually Mobil that I mixed up to top off a full liter bottle) in both. No leakage, well I get a bit of seepage like everybody does out of the bevel gear but nothing much. Just a coating that I clean off every oil change.

I probably did that well over a year ago so they have something close to 15K kms on this fluid. I check the levels every 6 months or so and everything has been good since I did it. In fact the factory lube looked OK as well when I took it out. Many times factory gear lube come out a bit gray or black from the gear wear, but this stuff hardly looked dirty at all and the car had over 160K on it at the time

Cheers,

Bill

[gonzomech]

well, forums are great...full of good info., passion, and opinions. all i state is be aware, get as much data as you can, and consider what is at stake vs. cost. i'm no mechanic, but i started working on my own car after i wasn't happy with what i was getting vs. cost from others.

testing can be very expensive, and true impartial testing can be hard to come by. having a supplier provide the data (even when collected by independents) is only as comprehensive and complete as what they supply. maybe skeptical, but one who generates and interprets test spec.'s and test data daily, i may have a different view point on things.

out of curiosity i checked the containers of volvo bevel and diff. oil i have at home...label has volvo sweden and north america on it, many foreign languages, and the container is made by promens/bonar plastics.

happy driving!