misfire ECM-3503, 3533, 3523, 3410, 3420

[vengeanceis]

hi there,

i got CEL on and the following codes 3503, 3533, 3523 (misfire), 3410, 3420 (knock?)
any one knows what the last two codes are?

engine is running more or less, but is choking and won't go above 3000rpm.

i am 2001 xc70 at 140kmiles, never replaced plugs. plugs visually seem pretty worn out, but I never had a problem before.

any other ideas besides plugs? this is the first thing that comes to mind
btw, which are good plugs for volvo and how much they cost.

any help appreciated. thank you.

[howardc64]

hi there,

i got CEL on and the following codes 3503, 3533, 3523 (misfire), 3410, 3420 (knock?)
any one knows what the last two codes are?

Yep, misfire and knock sensor. See ECM code table below.

http://www.bsr.se/man_diagnos_uk.pdf


hi there,
i am 2001 xc70 at 140kmiles, never replaced plugs. plugs visually seem pretty worn out, but I never had a problem before.

any other ideas besides plugs? this is the first thing that comes to mind
btw, which are good plugs for volvo and how much they cost.


people say the plugs go pretty quick on these cars due to turbo. Techs swears by the Volvo plugs which are $45 online

http://www.fcpgroton.com/product-exec/product_id/9299/nm/Volvo_V70_Turbo_Genuine_Volvo_Spark_Plug_Set_1998_ 2007_/category_id/111

Here is a recent thread for lower cost alternatives tho.

http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15474

[vengeanceis]

thank you, howard

ok, $45 for a set of 5 seems pretty affordable.
(compared to a quote of $18 x5ea = 90 + 1 hour labor = ~$200 bucks at repair shop)

i am concerned i got misfire on multiple cylinders at once (2 out of 5?)
is there a distributor cap/rotor on these cars? can the cap be to blame

i guess I should do the plugs first.

btw, what tool do I need to reach for the plugs?
never changed plugs on this car. none has posted a DIY with pictures yet?


(I am not that dumb :) I know what the torx screw is, and I replaced fuel door hinge myself(!) and i even replaced front right turn bulb once.... btw dealership wanted to charge me $60 bucks for 1/2 hr labor for this :) no kidding )

[vengeanceis]

btw, what is "knock sensor"? :confused:

[vengeanceis]

ok, I found a "Spark Plug Change Tutorial" here
http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/2009/10/06/spark-plug-change-tutorial-volvo-850-s70-v70-xc70-c70/

[howardc64]

thank you, howard

ok, $45 for a set of 5 seems pretty affordable.
(compared to a quote of $18 x5ea = 90 + 1 hour labor = ~$200 bucks at repair shop)

i am concerned i got misfire on multiple cylinders at once (2 out of 5?)
is there a distributor cap/rotor on these cars? can the cap be to blame

i guess I should do the plugs first.

btw, what tool do I need to reach for the plugs?
never changed plugs on this car. none has posted a DIY with pictures yet?


(I am not that dumb :) I know what the torx screw is, and I replaced fuel door hinge myself(!) and i even replaced front right turn bulb once.... btw dealership wanted to charge me $60 bucks for 1/2 hr labor for this :) no kidding )

Hey, sounds like you haven't done modern car's plugs and this car has a few more things to deal with such as the torque bar + turbo pipe removal. Your car is a tad different than the tutorial. Here are some pics that is exactly like your car.

http://www.v70xc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14887

You are welcome to swing by my house and I'll show you how to do it. I'm on the eastside, PM me.

There are no Cap+rotor on these cars. its all electronic timing now. And instead of 1 coil, there are 5 now. One on top of each of the plug. Basically, the logic is the closer the coil is to the plug, the lessor the power loss through the wires. And these coils have known to go bad... and they are more expensive. I would do the plugs first and see what happens given how old your plugs are.

engine knock happens when spark timing is off (and timing is all electronic now as I mentioned). Knock sensor detects when off (engine will knock when off) and engine computer adjust timing. Here is a quicky tutorial on knock sensors

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h38.pdf

[vengeanceis]

hm.. if I order through FCP, plugs will arrive only next week...
how dangerous is it to drive like this?.. i need to go to work every day
sometimes it misses pretty badly.

do you know of a parts store on the eastside where they'd have'em on stock?

[howardc64]

hm.. if I order through FCP, plugs will arrive only next week...
how dangerous is it to drive like this?.. i need to go to work every day
sometime it misses pretty badly.

do you know of a parts store on the eastside where the'd have'em on stock?

You are in luck, I have a pack of 5 sitting in my garage :) You can have them for fcpgroton's price of $43.50. I'll be ordering stuff from fcpgroton soon to do wife's 90k tune up so I can get it at the same time.

[Chilled Man]

If you keep driving with mifsfires and such theres a good chance you will bust a exhuast valve.

To fix that ... $2k

[The Fixer]

My '01 threw those misfire codes after I did a Seafoam treatment though the vacuum lines. Good call on changing the plugs. I want to get those Iridiums out of there...

[vengeanceis]

thanks everyone

i got a set of volvo OEM plugs for $54 this morning... so, half of the job is done :D made in germany. cool.

now i've got to find the 1) T30 Torx head, 2) someone with a long 5/8 socket..., and 3) the anti-seize lubricant. gee... i got to go to Lowes for that

btw, how important is the anti-seize... do I really need it?

and.. here is one guy here claiming the spark plugs have to be done at 30Nm sharp. does it really have to be that precise?

[sjonnie]

thanks everyone

i got a set of volvo OEM plugs for $54 this morning... so, half of the job is done :D made in germany. cool.

now i've got to find the 1) T30 Torx head, 2) someone with a long 5/8 socket..., and 3) the anti-seize lubricant. gee... i got to go to Lowes for that

btw, how important is the anti-seize... do I really need it?

and.. here is one guy here claiming the spark plugs have to be done at 30Nm sharp. does it really have to be that precise?
Not sure Lowes will have anti-seize, Walmart might, or an auto store. Pick up some dielectric grease while you're there, your spark plug socket and a gapping tool. The anti-seize isn't essential for putting the plugs in, just for ensuring they come out again ;) Check the gap on each plug before you put it in, it should be 0.028", adjust the gap to 0.028" if it is incorrect. Put a little anti-seize on the threads and screw into the hole, be really careful not to cross thread the plug, it should screw in very easily. Tighten to 20ft/lbs, that's not very tight at all and you'll probably overtighten them if you don't have a torque wrench, borrow one from your auto store if you don't have one. Put a little dielectric grease on the connector and reattach the coil.

Here's a nice walk though from Matthew's Volvo site with pictures.
http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/2009/10/06/spark-plug-change-tutorial-volvo-850-s70-v70-xc70-c70/

[vengeanceis]

ok, so i went to Schuck's and bought this:
- a 5/8 socket (3/8"drive) - $4.99
- an extension 10" - $6.99
- wrench ratchet - another $9.99
- T30 torx screwdriver - another $4.99
- anti-seize - $3.19
- and dielectric - $1.29

Total damage so far: ~$30 bucks.

And the set of spark plugs ~$54 bucks. Volvo OEM p/n 8692071.

[vengeanceis]

I am afraid I got bad news.

so, after I finally removed the 8 torx screws (the trickiest part was to get to the farther screw that's right under the big hose) and the dusty cover, i expected to see clean shining metal surface with some wires under it... like others have on their pictures.

guess what.. all the space under the cover turned out to be FILLED with engine oil!!!! :eek: what a mess!.

there are puddles of oil. all wires and coils are covered with oil and grease.
no wonder it's misfiring on 2nd and the 3rd cyls - these appear to be right in the middle of all this mess.

my first reaction was: wtf???!!?! :mad::confused:
now i'm thinking: HELP!

[vengeanceis]

after last oil change (2 months ago, at Barrier Volvo, local d-ship), I remember I noticed oil around the engine oil cap.. but i didn't quite pay attention to that...

it seems before that oil change, the cap and surfaces around it were clean...

now, apparently, oil gets its way out and went right under that plastic cover with plugs and stuff...

what do I do now...?
I only can think of taking a paper towel and removing all the oil, and try dry this out a bit.. and then replace old plugs with the new ones...


but wait, the oil is going to get to the new plugs the same way it did with the old ones.... :confused:


ok, you see me lost and confused here now...
please give me some support arghhh...

can I blame the dealership that did the oil change?
do i need the new engine oil cap?

[Chilled Man]

PCV is back up / clogged might as well plan on replaceing the flametrap box and cleaning out the PTC Nipple

whats the milage on the car ? -140,000 dude .... wtf

And simpley this is from a lack of maintence and nothing else.

Might want to search and do a full stage 0 on this car before it comes to a grinding hault ...

[vengeanceis]

2324

what is PCV, frametrap, and the ptc nipple? where is all that :confused:

yes 140k miles. I could have probably done better maintenance on the car, but I've already spent $1100 bucks last year on it :mad:

and what's "stage 0"?

[Aviator]

Get a couple of cans of brakeclean and spray off all the oil everywhere; the brakeclean will evaporate on its own and leave everything clean. Replace the rubber gasket on your oil filler cap.....yours is probably rock hard and not sealing (that's where the mess is coming from) and will break when you go to put the new one on. As far as the rest.......it looks like your PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) system is plugged up like Chilled said. To access it properly you have to remove the intake manifold. Once there, you will see some rubber hoses, vacuum hose, nipple, flametrap (used to stifle or blank out fire in the event of crankcase gas combustion). When all these parts get gooey and plugged, the crankcase gasses back up and pressurise all the gaskets and seals in the engine. The most common clue that something is not right is oil leakage at the turbo oil return pipe either where it goes into the block, or where it screws onto the turbo (or both). Clean out the coils as well and try to soak up any oil that may have gotten down in the plug wells. Put a dab of dielectric grease in each coil boot before reinstalling. You really should get at the PCV system though because it will cause performance issues and set fault codes as a result.

Dave.

[sjonnie]

what is PCV, frametrap, and the ptc nipple? where is all that :confused:

yes 140k miles. I could have probably done better maintenance on the car, but I've already spent $1100 bucks last year on it

http://www.volvoxc.com/resources/how-to/pdf/crankcase-ventilation-system-cleaning%20Method.pdf

For the 2001 model year it may be possible to clean the PCV system w/o taking the intake manifold off, for the '02 it's not. Seemed like I had to take everything off, power steering pump, thermostat housing, alternator. From the state of your oil fill cap I can easily predict your PCV system is sludged up. It's a simple test, with the engine running remove the dipstick and look for smoke coming out. Another test to make sure the PCV system is working is to put your hand over the oil fill hole and feel for negative pressure.

For a 10yr old car with 140K mi you can pretty much expect to keep paying $1000+ in maintenance /yr for the rest of it's life.

[howardc64]

For the 2001 model year it may be possible to clean the PCV system w/o taking the intake manifold off

http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=117607

This describes

- A quick way to test your PCV system for clog by inserting a tube in the dip stick hole to feel positive pressure of a clogged system.

- A way to clean the PCV system w/o taking PS pump, fuel rail, intake manifold etc... off. Probably tight and haven't tried it myself.

Also include a great diagram of what is flowing where.

[vengeanceis]

thanks guys... for the support and all the warm words


Get a couple of cans of brakeclean and spray off all the oil everywhere...
good idea.. any break cleaner works?
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/PYR0/BPC20.oap how about this
can I spray right over wires and coils and wire looms? is it bad for plastic?

i'll go do the "put your bare hand over oil fill hole test".. aka "plastic sandwich bag test" or "rubber glove test" ...

sjonnie,
for this crankcase ventilation cleaning TNN http://www.volvoxc.com/resources/how...g%20Method.pdf
what am i looking at $$$-wise?... the TNN doesn't say how much labor / hours..

[vengeanceis]

how do i remove the coils ????
i disconnected the wires from the coil, but can't figure out how to remove the coil itself.. is there a clip or something?

crap... there is a bolt! [cussing] i need another wrench socket.. dammt.

[vengeanceis]

btw, the-sandwich-bag-over-the-oil-fill-hole test didn't quite work... there is NO air movement at all.. i kept engine running for about a minute.. it didn't bend in, nor it popped out.. just stayed flat.

[sjonnie]

i need another wrench socket.. dammt.
Not wanting to discourage you but if you want to work on your own car you need a decent mechanics tool set, eventually including a set of 1/2" drive sockets, preferably 8-point. Expect to invest a minimum of $200 in tools as a DIY mechanic, and that's really scraping it and renting stuff every time. My very basic setup of Kobalt tools from Lowes costs about $400, I know because I used to keep it in the back of my truck, until it got stolen and I had to rebuy everything! :mad: More advanced mechanics like ChilledMan have thousands of $$ worth of tools, being your own auto mechanic will save you money in the long run, plus it's immensely satisfying, but it's still going to cost you money.

Second you need a guide book, the internet is great, but you never know when someone is online or what answer you will get (including this one, hehe!) I bought the UK Haynes manual for the V70 and a 2005 copy of VADIS, the Volvo computer manual for the car, both are invaluable, but nonetheless you'll still encounter difficulties!

[vengeanceis]

hey.. 2am. I just came back up from my parking garage at L3. i had so much s%x today... I love my volvo.

i have few thoughts to share... but not today.. it's too late.. or too early.. in Honolulu it's just 12am!

this oil should have never gotten to the coils & wires' compartment.. there is a groove along the cover that's supposed to take away all the oil .. even if it drips off the oil cap.
what a stupid design to have a flat bed with all the plugs and wires right beyond the oil fill hole.. of course it will get flooded.


Not wanting to discourage you...
:D I got it done. I cleaned up all the oil (btw, I barely used 1/2 of a break cleaning can, but huge amount of napkins and wipes) and I replaced the plugs. runs ok now, no misfires.

I still have to figure out the PCV thing...
i don't know if new cap helps, or there is a more serious problem. but after i've done all the cleanup and changed the plugs.. I started the engine and kept it running for like 10 minutes with the oil fill cap open.
the oil keeps accumulating on the sides of the hole.
there are no spill overs or anything, but it's visible... like a vapour, condensation.

i'm buying the new oil cap first thing tomorrow morning.

[Chilled Man]

This thread LOL

If you dont want to be working on the car ...

http://www.seattlevolvo.com/

ask for Danny to work on your car :D

[vengeanceis]

so no one told me, how much is to do the PCV cleaning?

and, i ran with oil filler cap removed, there is no negative or positive pressure.. no smoke is coming out of dipstick hole.. am I cool?

btw, to do the test with the dipstick tube, why do i need the "piece of rubber hose to fit on the dipstick tube" to feel the vacuum/pressure? the dipstic hole is right there, if i just put my arm to the hole won't it be the same?