Frustrated rant

[littlewaywelt]

RANT:
I just got off the phone with my dealer and am frustrated to say the least.  I have had a vehicle that has long suffered from a 2-3rd gear intermittant gear slip and random electrical problems.  After a letter to VCNA, a factory rep finally came to the dealer to examine the car.  After two days I found out that they only drove the car 20 miles and didn't replicate the slip, and as such did nothing to resolve the transmission issue which I have been complain of since before they were commonly known or tsb's were released for them.  This is an intermittant problem, so I am not surprised, but it leaves me wondering what the next step should be.  I already wrote the lemmonesque letter to vcna requesting help/buyback.  Do I have to get a lawyer involved at this point?  I'm past the lemmon law period at 48k miles and the car will be three years old in October.

I've had the indoor locking units replaced twice, an oil leak that took a year to to find & fix, numerous electrical problems, failures of the sunroof, a window, a turn signal failure that took 4 attempts to fix, locking core replacement, air fan replacement, a headlamp replaced, two side turn indicators replaced, three cup holders, rear wiper arm cap replaced, all wheel lug nuts rusted, the rear hatch allignment issue that barry has (mine is worn very substantially) work on the cv joint, a leaking shock replaced, two key fobs replaced,...and I'm sure there's more that I can't even think of off the top of my head.
...and this throttle body valve/ transmission 2-3 slip and clunk on stop that are intermittant and not fixed....

help.
please.
argh.

[barrysharp]

My first instinct/advice would be that if you are totally unhappy with the car and your finances are robust then trade in the car for something you fell you will be happier with. I sure wouldn't let a car's problems spoil too many of my days. Car problems are so much easier to deal with than human problems. http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Your list of problems/issues is long but maybe that list is very much shorter if you were to list just the current ones. Hopefully the others have been solved and put to bed.

If you like the car then try and live with the problems as they aren't too severe such as the rubbing hatch edges (no rust issue here as the metal is alloy) and the intermitent 2-3rd gear slip (just how frequent is it? -- once a month or two or much more frequent)

Again, if the car problems are too much for you plan on selling/tradein the car as soon as it makes financial sense to do so.

[littlewaywelt]

Barry,
The current ones still encompass many seemingly unrelated failures; something substantial goes wrong with the car every few months and this doesn't seem indicative of what others have been going through. They just had to rework the window allignment/lube because the autoup function wouldn't work and replace the door locking system again.
The transmission problem has been ongoing for the last 2.5 years. Sometimes I go two weeks without it happening and then other times it slips consistantly on the same drive. Sometimes the slip only lasts for a second, other times it lasts for 2-3 seconds. I only drive the car on the weekends, so it complicates matters.  I am having a very tough time finding all the nuances where I can consistantly replicate it. The clunk on engine stop is far more seldom-we haven't had that in several months. The thing that disturbs me is that I am going to be stuck covering substantial expense to repair these systems as time goes on and they get worse (if they do).
I really don't like the idea of trading the car in, as it's only worth around 24k, now. 18k is a lot to swallow for less than three years of use, and I'd have to take that loss if I trade in the car on a new xc, which is the only thing I'd replace it with. I just want Volvo to fix the problem. Even if I traded it in on an XC of the same vintage, I'd be paying 2k, and that's just not right.
I don't want to waste their time or mine constantly complaining of the same issue, which they can't replicate or repair. At this point I am just surprised that they won't take my word for it and perform the repair that's known to fix these issues.
Surprisingly, when I picked up the car last night and talked w/ my service advisor about the tsb fix to the problem he told me that "we already replaced the throttle body valve." He pulled the records and was surprised to learn that they in fact had not done that.

[joeboy01]

littlewaywelt, I'm not sure where you are located, but in the US most states have a consumer affairs department as part of the Attorney General's office.  When I'm encountering a situation like you have encountered, I've written the manufacturer and copied the attorney general and made it clear at the bottom of the letter I was sending a copy to the Attorney General.  

In Texas anyway, the Attorney Generals office then writes a letter on your behalf to the manufacturer.  It helps if you have a contact name.  In this case write to the President of VCNA, and send the letter registered where someone has to sign for it.  I would write the letter directly addressed to the President of VCNA and I would include every single issue you have encountered and express you willingness to arrive at an agreeable resolution.  

When you go to the top like this you get one chance to tell your story.  In fact, in your letter I would tell the VCNA President you are going to call in a few days to follow-up on your letter.  I’ll wager you will have a call from someone pretty high up in Volvo pretty quickly.

If that does not get you satisfaction, get a lawyer and take them to arbitration.  Most car manufactures will go to binding arbitration which is a much less expensive route than attempting a lawsuit on all counts.

Best of luck,

[littlewaywelt]

I've already sent a registered letter, cc'ing my attorney, vcna cust service, vcna pres, my dealer owner & service advisor.  I don't know who initiated the vcna rep to look at the car, the dealer or vcna.  I didn't cc my Atty General because I am well past the lemmon law protections of Maryland.  The atty gnrl may, though encourage vcna to do the warranty fix.  I want to give vcna the full 30 days to provide written reply per my request before I go further.  Thanks for the suggestion, I think that any subsequent letters will be drafted by my attorney.

[Raynald]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (littlewaywelt @ Aug. 14 2003,13:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">...clunk on stop that are intermittant and not fixed....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
littlewaywelt,
My friend&#39;s 2001 XC (nautic blue by the way...) had the &quot;clunk&quot; noise you mention, sporadic at first but became more frequent over a period of 6 months. On a second visit to dealer last march, the problem was fixed and did not occur since (~16k miles). Here&#39;s what they did:

- Solenoid control system replacement
- B4 Cover automatic transmission replacement (Acc. to SB 4430039)
- Software control module downloading
- Trany oil replacement.

Hope it helps http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[AkXCman]

We have the &quot;clunk&quot; problem and a fluctuating idle that the Volvo dealer cannot resolve. &nbsp;Our problems started at about the 9000 mile mark when the car was just about 1 year old.

Back then I was certain that the problems could easily be solved but after 4 attempts and 2 years they still remain. &nbsp;The car is drivable and I guess that is all that Volvo cares about. Their standard is pretty much if it starts, stops, and rolls down the road then there is nothing wrong with it.

As such, the Volvo sits in the garage most of the time and our old car was promoted back to the #1 spot. &nbsp;

There aren&#39;t any good choices when the dealer cannot fix the problem. &nbsp;Like you, I&#39;d take a big hit selling the car (it only has 19000 miles on it) and I just can&#39;t sell it to someone else in good conscious. &nbsp;There is no way I’d trade it for another Volvo and run the risk of being screwed twice. &nbsp;All I really want is for Volvo to fix the car and for it to run and ride as well as our Audi.

[GeorgeXC70]

I reall y fell bad for you. &nbsp;I hope you can fix it to your satisfaction. &nbsp;I had a similar phantom problem with an &#39;91 Golf. &nbsp;The service people were willing to help but I couldnt show anything http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif &nbsp;

What I would do is go into a Volvo dealership and trade it in on a new one based on the milage and nothing else if they dont give you the right amount they got some explaining to do&#33;

Or you could just donate it too charity or sell it to somewhere CarMax

Good luck.

[littlewaywelt]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (GeorgeXC70 @ Aug. 15 2003,22:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What I would do is go into a Volvo dealership and trade it in on a new one based on the milage and nothing else if they dont give you the right amount they got some explaining to do&#33;

Or you could just donate it too charity or sell it to somewhere CarMax

Good luck.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
no offense, but i&#39;m not selling a 2.8 year old car that i paid close to 42k fir for 24k only to but a new one at 38-40k. &nbsp;imo, that&#39;s rediculous. &nbsp;it&#39;s turning the xc into a &#036;55-60k investment.

i paid good &#036; for a car that i want to last for 10 years or 200k miles. &nbsp;volvo ought to take care of their resposibility here and stop forcing me to play the jerk/whiny customer. &nbsp;I&#39;m certainly not in a position to make a &#036;24k charitable donation.

[GeorgeXC70]

Oops&#33; Sorry the donation comment was just a joke.

[mas71]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AkXCman @ Aug. 15 2003,23:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We have the &quot;clunk&quot; problem and a fluctuating idle that the Volvo dealer cannot resolve. Our problems started at about the 9000 mile mark when the car was just about 1 year old.

Back then I was certain that the problems could easily be solved but after 4 attempts and 2 years they still remain. The car is drivable and I guess that is all that Volvo cares about. Their standard is pretty much if it starts, stops, and rolls down the road then there is nothing wrong with it.

As such, the Volvo sits in the garage most of the time and our old car was promoted back to the #1 spot.

There aren&#39;t any good choices when the dealer cannot fix the problem. Like you, I&#39;d take a big hit selling the car (it only has 19000 miles on it) and I just can&#39;t sell it to someone else in good conscious. There is no way I’d trade it for another Volvo and run the risk of being screwed twice. All I really want is for Volvo to fix the car and for it to run and ride as well as our Audi.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Regarding this &quot;clunk&quot; problem, those of you who has this particular problem, could you please elaborate on this a bit:

* When does it happen, during accelleration/decelleration or brake etc?
* Where does it come from, from the far rear or middle of the car?

The thing is that I have a &#39;02 XC that only has about 16k miles and I sometimes hear a very faint &quot;clunk&quot; from the far rear of the car when the car comes to a complete stop.

The thing is that back in ´98 I tried a brand new V70 AWD at my Volvo retailer and I experience a similar &quot;clunk&quot; from the rear while driving in the city at low speed during acc/dec.

I almost feel that this is a smaller tacky problem with the classic viscous coupling on volvos AWD, and really no serious error but a minor annoyance. Anyone agree?

[littlewaywelt]

The clunk apparently comes from the adaptive neutral. &nbsp;The car is supposed to go into neutral (I think they got rid of this feature) when the car comes to a stop for fuel economy reasons. &nbsp;For some reason, occassionally it has difficulty doing this and there is (in my case) a loud bang (loud enough for people to look at us). &nbsp;It happens a second or two after the car comes to a full stop. &nbsp;I get it once or twice every couple of months. To us it sounds like it is coming from right under the center console.
A minor annoyance, perhaps, but it shouldn&#39;t do this at all. &nbsp;I do worry about what this says about the long term nature of this transmission. &nbsp;If it&#39;s having problems when the car is essentially new, what will happen when it has 100k miles?

[mas71]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (littlewaywelt @ Aug. 19 2003,20:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The clunk apparently comes from the adaptive neutral. The car is supposed to go into neutral (I think they got rid of this feature) when the car comes to a stop for fuel economy reasons. For some reason, occassionally it has difficulty doing this and there is (in my case) a loud bang (loud enough for people to look at us). It happens a second or two after the car comes to a full stop. I get it once or twice every couple of months. To us it sounds like it is coming from right under the center console.
A minor annoyance, perhaps, but it shouldn&#39;t do this at all. I do worry about what this says about the long term nature of this transmission. If it&#39;s having problems when the car is essentially new, what will happen when it has 100k miles?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Littlewaywelt,

yes you are right, your problem sounds like a whole different ballgame than the small clunk I&#39;ve heard.

All I can say is, keep it up you have the right on your side, and Volvo are supposed to be very scared to loose customers on the american market.

On a sidenote:
It has been stated on several TV-documentaries here in Sweden that errors on american cars are getting a lot more attention in america than here in Sweden.

[AkXCman]

For me, the clunk is worst during the winter when the temps are cold. On our car the clunk occurs when the transmissions shifts into neutral at a stop light. I&#39;ve outlined the idle issue in a previous post

idle issue (http://xc70.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=1;t=1549;hl=akxcman)

I&#39;m pretty sure that both problems lie with the transmission and I plan to take the car in again in October when it is colder. I&#39;ll keep you all posted of my saga.