Replace Vibration Damper on Angle Gear?

[nator]

My xc is very important to me, it is the only car that I ever want to have, but I have experienced problems with the AWD that has lead me to disconnect the rear driveshaft and remove completely. The car operates well, and I have performed maintenance such as replacing wheel bearings after 170k mi. But I still do not want to re-connect the AWD, I just don't need it. The only real problem that I have not been able to resolve is a vibration that occurs between 70 mph and 85 mph, before and after that speed everything is great, but I drive I-10 from Florida Panhandle to Houston, requiring me to stay in that speed window. Does anyone know if the Vibration Damper located on the bottom of the Angle/Bevel gear aka transfer case could be the culprit? To tell you the truth I would just really like to get rid of the whole unit, in which case allow me to propose another question: Would anyone have any information about possibly removing the transfer case and just fitting a longer axle in there? Love the car, hate the AWD!

[lookforjoe]

If you remove the Bevel Gear (transfer case) you will have to deal with this:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/huseinholland/cars%20cats%20houses/V70ManConversion0003a.jpg

... the sleeve that connects the bevel gear to the differential. Without the BG to retain it, you will need to basically bond it to the shaft - loctite on the splines would probably be sufficient. The axle is the same length - it passes through the bevel gear and into the diff.

[dsnover]

Looking through VADIS, it's odd that they used such dramatically different axle shafts for the AWD vs FWD cars. I looked, hoping that the FWD axle would replace the sleeve that connects the bevel gear to the diff, but no, way different design. It seems that to do what you would like to do would be more expensive than it would be worth. However, you could probably locate a FWD transmission and axles, and swap them over.

Then again, looking at the pictures a bit more (and without hard parts in front of me to compare), since the passenger side uses a hard-mounted intermediate shaft, the intermediate shaft _may_ plug into the sleeve, and since the shaft is hard mounted, maybe nothing else would need to be done (?). IF you have a U-Pull-It yard around, you might be able to source the passenger side axle, with the mount, at a cheap enough price to give it a try. It would be interesting to know if indeed that was a viable alternative.

<EDIT>
Looking at the parts for the sleeve, there is apparently already a retaining ring that holds the sleeve to the tranmission, so you might be OK with that, too. I still can't imagine a manufacture NOT standardizing on the splines going into the transmissions, but hey, whatever ;-)

[lookforjoe]

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/huseinholland/misc/Picture5.png

Unfortunately looking @ the VADIS pics is not giving you the actual situation.

The axle doesn't plug into the sleeve - it goes THROUGH THE BEVEL GEAR and into the diff, just like the FWD version. The only difference between FWD & AWD driveshafts is the land for the inner & outer bevel gear seals, and those are mainly to keep dirt out - there is no shared fluid passing between the trans & the bevel gear.

The snap ring inside the sleeve does not retain it in the diff - it stops it from going too far inside the casing. The bevel gear holds it in place.

Like I said, all you need to do is secure the sleeve, There is no reason to swap trans, driveshafts or anything else.

[Greybeard]

Keep us posted if you do this, on how it works. My Angle Gear is a constant source of anxiety for me, ever since I had to replace it for $3100 when I was 350 miles from home. Once a car strands me, I never really trust it again. If this switch to FWD remedy works well, I would be happy to do the same. Like you said, I love the car, but the AWD, not so much.

[dsnover]

Does anyone have an exploded view of the angle gear? VADIS doesn't really show a takeapart on that unit, which I guess doesn't surprise me, since they like to replace the whole thing.

Same with the transmissions. An exploded view of these components would probably help. Or, if anyone has one that they have taken pics of while apart, that would be good too...

Now, as to retaining the sleeve. If the axle is what already goes into the sleeve, then putting a groove in the appropriate place on the axle shaft, along with an external snap ring, would hold all this together nicely, since the axle has a hard mounting point to locate it relative to the transmission.

[lookforjoe]

You're not getting it. The sleeve is held into the diff by the bevel gear. Nothing you can do to the driveshaft will retain it.

Volvo doesn't have cut aways of the BG becasue they don't offer any service parts. All that's in there is a Ring & Pinion with supporting bearings, just like the rear axle.

[dsnover]

You're not getting it. The sleeve is held into the diff by the bevel gear. Nothing you can do to the driveshaft will retain it.

Volvo doesn't have cut aways of the BG becasue they don't offer any service parts. All that's in there is a Ring & Pinion with supporting bearings, just like the rear axle.

I understand that the BG holds the sleeve in place. What I was suggesting was a way of holding it into place using an external snap ring on the axle, in the absence of the BG. I can't really make an illustration of what I'm talking about in text, though, so my apologies if I'm not able to articulate it well. Now, with respect to what is actually in the housing, while they may not offer replacement parts, bearings tend to be standardized, and so it may be possible to replace them if they are a failure point at all. Since I've not had the opportunity to open up one of these units, it was (imho) a worthwhile question to ask.

[lookforjoe]

The bearings are actually the same as those in the rear diff - but it is unlikely that the bearings would fail before the pinion/bevel gear wear, simply because of the design (unless a seal fails undetected). The only reason they really fail is due to uneven tire wear.

I have a Volvo service bulletin that I can photograph to illustrate the contents for you.

Given the difference in circumference between the driveshaft & the sleeve a snap ring would not be practical. It would make more sense to simply loctite the splines. Look at my photo again, you see how small the driveshaft (from the inner seal) is compared to the outer lip of the sleeve.

[lookforjoe]

Here's the pic...


http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/huseinholland/misc/Scan-081027-0001.jpg

[dsnover]

Thanks for the pic. Given the simplicity of the unit, it _should_ be rather stout, and shouldn't fail often, much like the rear diff. Seems a shame to replace the unit if a bearing has failed, rather than simply replace the bearings, but at the same time, resetting a ring and pinion is getting to be a lost art.

[lookforjoe]

Thanks for the pic. Given the simplicity of the unit, it _should_ be rather stout, and shouldn't fail often, much like the rear diff. Seems a shame to replace the unit if a bearing has failed, rather than simply replace the bearings, but at the same time, resetting a ring and pinion is getting to be a lost art.

True, but very easy on this setup, since you dial it in, rather than measuring shims, so it's pretty easy.

The adjuster is the large "nut" on the right...

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/huseinholland/misc/Picture4-2.png

[dsnover]

Yes, that looks easy enough to set bearing preload, but are shims required to set the pinion depth? Also, for the ring gear, there would almost have to be something for the other side to set its mesh with the pinion, aside of the adjusting nut for preload. Of course, all of this is meaningless if the pinion or ring gear is trashed... But interesting for discussion anyway.

You mentioned that the bearing are the same as for the rear diff....I wonder about the gears themselves?

[djohn]

just wondering, should i replace the oil every 75k or ? Mine was just replaced at 160,000. bearing was toast. would make noise at extreme ends of steering wheel travel, loading up the bearings.

[dsnover]

More frequent changes can't be a bad thing. I'd probably do the job every 30k or 50k miles. The case doesn't hold much, so it isn't exactly an expensive job...

[lookforjoe]

Yes, that looks easy enough to set bearing preload, but are shims required to set the pinion depth? Also, for the ring gear, there would almost have to be something for the other side to set its mesh with the pinion, aside of the adjusting nut for preload. Of course, all of this is meaningless if the pinion or ring gear is trashed... But interesting for discussion anyway.

You mentioned that the bearing are the same as for the rear diff....I wonder about the gears themselves?

No, Ring gear is bolted to diff in rear...

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/huseinholland/misc/Picture4.png

.. pinion could conceivably be the same, I don't know.

[dsnover]

Looking at the pics, I'd think not.

[lookforjoe]

Looking at the pics, I'd think not.


??? Sorry you don't think so - but I'm afraid you are sadly mistaken.

Take another look. pos. 24 is the flange bolt of which there are 10 or 12 (don't recall exact #); they pass through the diff carrier (pos 9)and bolt into the ring gear - this is the same mounting method/design Volvo has used going back to all RWD axles such as in this pic which shows the threaded holes in the ring gear (#37)..

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/huseinholland/misc/LSD_1031.jpg


...I'd suggest you research further before making statements based on viewing one image, especially if you have no hands-on experience with any of this.

[4MUL8R]

Regarding differential oil changes, most American cars are filled for life. I haven't read any Volvo service manual on these models, but if you do change the gear oil, please ensure you use the correct oil. The pictures show what appears to be a locking differential mechanism, as well as limited slip clutch packs.

Can anyone confirm if these axles are locking or limited slip? The presence of the weights and springs in the above pictures (20 and 24 in the rear axle) suggest the locking device. In this drawing, there are four parts marked 24, though.

Looking at the front axle, parts 10 and 13 look to be a locking differential gear mechanism, apart from a pair of limited slip clutch packs. Wow! If these are both locking and limited slip that would be a great axle!

[dsnover]

??? Sorry you don't think so - but I'm afraid you are sadly mistaken.

Take another look. pos. 24 is the flange bolt of which there are 10 or 12 (don't recall exact #); they pass through the diff carrier (pos 9)and bolt into the ring gear - this is the same mounting method/design Volvo has used going back to all RWD axles such as in this pic which shows the threaded holes in the ring gear (#37)..


...I'd suggest you research further before making statements based on viewing one image, especially if you have no hands-on experience with any of this.

Please note that I was _agreeing_ with you, and my point really was that I didn't think the pinion was the same either. My apologies that I didn't articulate that more clearly.

[lookforjoe]

Please note that I was _agreeing_ with you, and my point really was that I didn't think the pinion was the same either. My apologies that I didn't articulate that more clearly.

My apologies. :)

[Mcridd2]

I have my BG torn apart from my 2000 xc and the gears look fine. There is some rough feeling from the bearing though. I am having trouble sourcing the bearings, one in particular. I believe its a pinion bearing that says Koyo ST3562-2. I checked the Koyo site and could not find it. Any suggestions.

[Mcridd2]

Are the bearings the same on the rear pinion gear as the front? 2000xc 176k mi

[lookforjoe]

I have my BG torn apart from my 2000 xc and the gears look fine. There is some rough feeling from the bearing though. I am having trouble sourcing the bearings, one in particular. I believe its a pinion bearing that says Koyo ST3562-2. I checked the Koyo site and could not find it. Any suggestions.


Volvo has 'em - it's just listed under the earlier year - the pinion brg pn is 9183891 - edit that's the seal -I'll have look around for the bearing #...

[lookforjoe]

Volvo has 'em - it's just listed under the earlier year - the pinion brg pn is 9183891 - edit that's the seal -I'll have look around for the bearing #...

here ya go..

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/huseinholland/misc/Picture4-1.png


outer:
183839
Inner:
183841;
same as every rear axle since the 140 (could be same as older, I just have experience back to the 140)

you'll need a new crush collar:

9143889

[dsnover]

If you are replacing any of the bearings in the pinion, you will need to at least verify that the pinion depth hasn't changed, and/or that the mesh pattern of the gears is correct. Otherwise you may end up with a gear noise issue and premature wear of the ring and pinion gears. Items #8 are the spacers that are used to adjust the pinon depth. I've not had one of these units apart, but there _may_ be a marking on the head of the pinion gear to indicate what the depth should be. Of course, if you've done R&P work before, you may already know this, but for others that may be considering changing out the bearings, it's still worth noting IMHO...

[lookforjoe]

If you are replacing any of the bearings in the pinion, you will need to at least verify that the pinion depth hasn't changed, and/or that the mesh pattern of the gears is correct. Otherwise you may end up with a gear noise issue and premature wear of the ring and pinion gears. Items #8 are the spacers that are used to adjust the pinon depth. I've not had one of these units apart, but there _may_ be a marking on the head of the pinion gear to indicate what the depth should be. Of course, if you've done R&P work before, you may already know this, but for others that may be considering changing out the bearings, it's still worth noting IMHO...


Yes, indeed. As long as you measure the existing combined shim/bearing height, and you can match that, you should be golden. Torquing the correct preload on the compression collar is key, since that is an additional variable.

[nator]

After spending way too much time fiddling with the transfer case, and after changing the oil several times, and removing the vibration damper then running it without; I have come to the conclusion that the transfer case is just going to cause vibration and it cannot be removed. Although I still am not going to replace the rear driveshaft, the car seems to run just as it always has, great, except for long highway journeys. Old XC's just wiggle that is all there is to it. Thanks for all the help. Nator

[Mcridd2]

The bearings were ordered for the pinion according to the drawing you posted but one was too big and the other was too small.

[lookforjoe]

The bearings were ordered for the pinion according to the drawing you posted but one was too big and the other was too small.

#'s 7 & 10? 183839 183841 didn't size up correctly? Was the seal (9183891) the same?

...there are no ring gear bearings available, so those would have to be found based on spec, but I'm surprised the pinion bearings were different..

[Mcridd2]

My mechanic did not order the seals yet. All the bearings are standard bearings available anywhere except one. Its an skf bearing that is stamped st3562-2 which is a valid part number according to skf, however they do not offer an interchange. That leaves the only option of getting the bearing from volvo which no dealer parts person has been able to find a correct bearing. 3562 is the id and od, the -2 looks to be the difference in axial angle relashionship to standard bearings.