Is this a problem...pictures of oil fill hole.

[SkagSig40]

I just bought 2 used Volvo XC70's to replace a dead Tahoe and another car we have. Both had clean history showing only one warranty claim between the 2 and several oil changes for each.
I forgot to check the oil before I bought and when I got home I found this:
2006 with 30,000 miles:
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i24/SkagSig40/100_1446.jpg

And then I found this:
2004 with 45,000 miles on it:
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i24/SkagSig40/100_1447.jpg
My stomach hit the floor!!!! Is this a really bad sign? Would Auto RX clean it up? Does this mean the engine is sludged up or been over heated?
The dip stick also looks like this:
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i24/SkagSig40/100_1448.jpg

What do you think????? Both engines are turbos.

[KCsXC]

WOW, my guess is the oil has not been changed for 45k miles. I would not know where to start. I have been told that synthetic oils act more like a detergent which may help clean up your engine. However it may be costly as you would need to change several times to ensure all the gunk was out.
Keep us posted on your path forward.

KC

[Motorhead]

I'd flush the oil straight away & replace it with a good quality oil & filter. I'd also change it again soon & use a system flush at least once & then keep an eye on it until you're happy it's all removed.

[Aviator]

Perfectly normal for any engine in any car. If you were to do a random spot check of cars on the road, guaranteed 99% of them would show this when you took the oil filler cap off. Everyone gets so upset and worried when they see this kind of residue. If you want to help clear it up, don't follow the recommended oil change interval. Change the oil and filter every 5000 kms instead of the 12,000 in the book. It will slowly get better but you won't get rid of it all. Don't worry about it.

Dave.

[JRL]

Auto Rx or Seafoam this car, change oil.
You may have to do a premature breather box replacement

[BLUEH20]

If you are concerned that there is sludge build ukp in you enginethere are two rather inexpensive ways to clean it.

1. Engine Purge-Produced by BG Products.
From the back of bottle--BG ENGINE PURGE is not an ordinary engine flush. It is an effectibe blend of solvents and dispersants which will quickly and sasfely remove accumulated deposits from the engine. Engine purge is safe for use in conventional, diesel and rotarty engines. This product is part of the BG TDC program.

1. Bring engine to operating temperature. Shut Off Engine.
2. Drain oil and refill with new oil. (gives a clean filter to catch the
crud and a dramatic view of the cleaning that took place.-this is my
personal note)
3. Bring engine to operating temperature. Shut off engine.
4. Add contents of BG Engine Purge.
5. Restart engine and run at fast idle (1200-1500) for 6o minutes.
6. Change oil and filter. Add one can of BG Advanced Forumal MOA
to crankcase.

2. MOA Advance Formula
From the back of the can.
MOA ADVANCED FORMULA is excellent for use in gasoline and small diesel engines. It prevents oxidation and thickening of motor oils under even the most severe stop and go, high temperature driving conditions. It fortifies high quality motor oil to provide superior long lasting engine performance and help maintain optimum engine performance BG ADVANCED FORMULA MOA keeps righ lands,hydrauklic lifters and other engine components lcean to help extend engine life and reduce cost of operation. This product is part of the BG TDC program.

1. Add 1 11 oz. can of BG ADVANCED FORMULA to 4 or 5 quarts of motor oil at each oil change.


I have used these products both ways. I have purge engines with good results and not issues such as over heating because I used it on engins that were in good shape just dirty. If the eninge is suspect--do not use!

In cases where the engine was only "somewhat dirty", I just added MOA to each oil change and over a period of time it did clean up to a large degree--it is not as dramatic as the purge with MOA after each of the next three oil changes.

Did I do this at home? Nope I did it in my service department in my dealership.

A high quality detergent oil should accomplish the same thing over a longer period of time. Neither will take out the jello like build up left by STP.

[SkagSig40]

Thanks guys!
I concerned the engine may have premature wear because of this? Can this damage that engine? I looked at another 2006 and it had 20,000 miles on it and it also had this build up but less then half as bad.

[JRL]

If you are concerned that there is sludge build ukp in you enginethere are two rather inexpensive ways to clean it.

1. Engine Purge-Produced by BG Products.
From the back of bottle--BG ENGINE PURGE is not an ordinary engine flush. It is an effectibe blend of solvents and dispersants which will quickly and sasfely remove accumulated deposits from the engine. Engine purge is safe for use in conventional, diesel and rotarty engines. This product is part of the BG TDC program.

1. Bring engine to operating temperature. Shut Off Engine.
2. Drain oil and refill with new oil. (gives a clean filter to catch the
crud and a dramatic view of the cleaning that took place.-this is my
personal note)
3. Bring engine to operating temperature. Shut off engine.
4. Add contents of BG Engine Purge.
5. Restart engine and run at fast idle (1200-1500) for 6o minutes.
6. Change oil and filter. Add one can of BG Advanced Forumal MOA
to crankcase.

2. MOA Advance Formula
From the back of the can.
MOA ADVANCED FORMULA is excellent for use in gasoline and small diesel engines. It prevents oxidation and thickening of motor oils under even the most severe stop and go, high temperature driving conditions. It fortifies high quality motor oil to provide superior long lasting engine performance and help maintain optimum engine performance BG ADVANCED FORMULA MOA keeps righ lands,hydrauklic lifters and other engine components lcean to help extend engine life and reduce cost of operation. This product is part of the BG TDC program.

1. Add 1 11 oz. can of BG ADVANCED FORMULA to 4 or 5 quarts of motor oil at each oil change.


I have used these products both ways. I have purge engines with good results and not issues such as over heating because I used it on engins that were in good shape just dirty. If the eninge is suspect--do not use!

In cases where the engine was only "somewhat dirty", I just added MOA to each oil change and over a period of time it did clean up to a large degree--it is not as dramatic as the purge with MOA after each of the next three oil changes.

Did I do this at home? Nope I did it in my service department in my dealership.

A high quality detergent oil should accomplish the same thing over a longer period of time. Neither will take out the jello like build up left by STP.

God, you and your BG,
Same as Seafoam, Auto Rx and other top engine cleaners
but thanks for the nicely detailed instruction manual:D

[JRL]

Also just changing the oil a couple of times coupled with some high speed higher RPM, (3rd gear, Italian tune up) driving may also do the trick.
This one may have just been puddling around town, never heated up well and not too many oil changes.
I've seen this with cars that have been normally serviced but not driven far each time it starts so the oil can get HOT.

[lexefx]

The 2nd car looks like it was used only in shorter bursts - like stop and go or severe duty - no longer runs, gettting the oil hot will help remove these deposits, or prevent them. I sugest a few regular oil changes - quickly do remove some of whats accumlated.

Alex

[boon4376]

Hmmm if it was MY car, this is what i would do

1.) put a can of seafoam and cheap dino oil in there for 300 miles. (and a new filter)

2.) Drain it, repeat step one again.

3.) drain it, fill with cheap oil, no detergents this time, drive it for 500 miles.

4.) Drain it, fill it with a nice synthetic. and get a new filter again. Change again after 3000 miles the first time. Theres some type of GTX oil that is supposed to be really good at removing sludge.. might want to give that a go.

[frank_a]

Also just changing the oil a couple of times coupled with some high speed higher RPM, (3rd gear, Italian tune up) driving may also do the trick.



:D

I own two Italian motorcycles. This is so true! (I laughed hard) The cheapest tune I know. Cleans out all the gunk. [thumbup]

I didn't know this worked for Volvos?

[SkagSig40]

Thanks again guys!

So what is the best synthetic for these engines? Any back up by used oil analysis?
Also exactly what is the name of these engines? they are both 2.5 low pressure turbos.....is there an official name for them?

[Mink]

Also exactly what is the name of these engines? they are both 2.5 low pressure turbos.....is there an official name for them?
Short answer 2.5T - I think we've all got the same basic engine. You can get your engine model number by decoding your VIN using this: http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/vin_70.shtml

[3G3T7I]

Is this car certified? Although I think you had some great replies, I would take the car back to the dealer and ask them to flush it. Of course that's just me.

[SkagSig40]

Is this car certified? Although I think you had some great replies, I would take the car back to the dealer and ask them to flush it. Of course that's just me.


Yes it is certified.

[SkagSig40]

I just got done with the 1st Auto Rx cleaning cycle. Here is a link to it the Used Oil Analysis I had done:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1339977#Post1339977

[Grundig]

Well, this thread has got me a little spooked since my oil cap is looking much like the tarnished and sludgy one in the picture (initial post). My 2005 xc70
(3 years and 4 months old, 52,000 km which is 32,000 miles) which I just bought had all the required Volvo maintenance; oil changes at 12,000 km intervals (7,500 miles) which I know is according to specs, but not great. Most people don't get a Volvo and change the oil every 3,000 miles so they can sell it to us 3 years later.

Anyway, Aviator says in one of the posts in the thread that this is completely normal for 99% of the cars on the road. I hope so. But before I try the Seafoam or Auto Rx treatment I'd love to know if you guys notice this on your cars, maintained or not. Can you check and let me know - would an engine cleaner be wise, or even necessary??

[Blessyouboys]

I have an '04 XC70 with 61.5K miles on it. I do regular oil changes about every 6K miles, and I use dino oil. My oil cap looks like the top picture. There is no sludge.

[Grundig]

Hey blessyouboys, thats great that you don't have the sludge issue. The theory seems to be that you'll get less or no sludge if you drive longer trip distances allowing the engine to heat up properly and burn off the deposits. Was that your case?

[Blessyouboys]

My normal commute is less than 10 miles, each way. I do allow the time for the car to warm up. The commute is not in stop and go traffic.

Almost every weekend my wife drives to a neighboring town, around 100 miles round trip, to visit her parents.

If I were driving less than 10K miles/year, I would change the oil every six months regardless of the mileage. YMMV. Like I said, I use dino oil. I buy cases when it goes on sale. I have no experience with synthetics.

[Volvo4Skier]

From what I could gather when I spoke with a couple of Volvo specialists when considering the purchase of a Volvo with similar symptoms is that there is a risk associated with the oil or sediment deposits and extra care and consideration should be taken when thinking of purchasing a vehicle exhibiting these deposits. Perhaps the following questions might be considered:

- has there been any clogging of the engine's "arteries" and/or screen to the oil pump

- what happens when the deposits dislodge and clog some other part of the engine

- what do the rest of the internal parts of the engine look like and will those deposits, if any, have a negative impact on future engine performance or longevity of the engine

- has there been premature engine damage or wear that may cause an unexpected and/or premature engine problem

- what is the cost to clean up the engine from the deposits

- how was the car maintained and operated by the previous owner, including regularly scheduled oil changes and the like

- is the risk associated with purchasing the vehicle worth it versus the price of the vehicle, the cost of possible future engine repairs arising from the deposits, overall peace of mind concerning owning the car and the cost and hassle of attempting to clean up the problem

There have been documented problems arising out of oil sludge with other cars, including Toyotas, Audis and others.

Have the car and engine properly inspected by a Volvo specialist.

[Grundig]

Well, that's disturbing to think that my car has got excess deposit problems. I'm still not convinced (or at least hoping) that the deposits that I have and those of the worse picture are so out of the norm. I looked at my maintenance schedule before I bought it and it was Volvo serviced with oil changes every 7500 miles. Not ideal, but certainly not engine abusive. So c'mon guys, do me a favour and check your oil fill and caps! Is this really so far out of the norm???

[kamiar]

Mine is a MY04 and the cap and the hole looks the same as the picture with the brown residue... it doesn't bother me at all and as one of the senior members mentioned earlier i think it is normal for a 4-5 years old engine.

[ChazzyD]

Really no way to tell how bad the situation may be, until you open up the engine further. I would simply do a series of short oil changes and make sure to use a synthetic blend oil in the least and then switch to full synthetic. This is a turbo car as you know, so I think dino oil is not going to cut it if you are going to use the 7500 mile change interval. On regular oil, I would never go beyond 3k for sure with this car. I would not get too worried if it runs fine, but start maintaining it to YOUR standards right away, to begin the clean up process. If it makes you feel better, clean up the inside of the filler hole and the bottom of the cap too, so it looks the way you want it too when you open it up. [sly] That's my opinion on it. Our newly obtained car doesn't look like that FWIW (the dealer mechanic could have cleaned it up though, so doesn't really mean much actually).
Charles

[sjonnie]

So c'mon guys, do me a favour and check your oil fill and caps! Is this really so far out of the norm???

Mine doesn't look that bad on the cap, but the varnish is there on the inside of the filler hole and the dipstick. I changed my oil today, the dealer had put Quaker State synthetic blend in it at 120K, there are now 125K on the clock. The engine had actually been feeling rough the last few weeks so I filled it up with Pennzoil Platinum, now all that roughness in the engine is gone! Feels super smooth and quiet, like new again. The oil was very black and given the roughness I was experiencing it suggests that it wasn't lubricating as well as it should have been, so that sucks for my turbo! I'll probably swap back to 3K changes like what I do with my truck and drop 3oz of Auto-Rx in there with the PP to try clean it up a little. $30 on oil and a filter every 2-3 months is very little to pay.

[marcinrudzki]

My 04 S60 with 33k miles looks like picture #1.

[neilsland]

My engine looks like pic 2.
Going to "Seafoam" it. But I have a question. After adding to the crankcase, how long before I change the oil? 10, 20, 100 miles or 10 minutes?!?!

[dlr97]

My 2004 XC70 with 46K miles looks like pic #1. Mixed driving, many long trips, always used Mobil 1 5W-30 at 7500 mile intervals.

[Grundig]

Thanks for the responses. I decided I would just switch to synthetic oil and do a few quicker oil change intervals coupled with JRL's italian tuneup. I'm hoping that'll clear anything that might be in there. See my other post regarding getting screwed by the dealer for an oil change . . .

[BillAileo]

With over 100,000 miles on our '03 XC70 and 60,000 miles on our '05 S80 AWD both have caps that look like picture 1. I only use synthetic oil and change it at about 6,000 mile intervals.

[sjonnie]

I just got done with the 1st Auto Rx cleaning cycle. Here is a link to it the Used Oil Analysis I had done:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1339977#Post1339977

So, uh, did the Auto-Rx clean it up any?

[SkagSig40]

So, uh, did the Auto-Rx clean it up any?


Not any thing you can see but I'm told the process takes a long time.

[Art]

Below is a TNN containing the VIDA procedure for cleaning the engine oil system for extreme cases of contamination. Hopefully no one here ever needs to perform such a task.

Lubrication System Contamination Cleaning (http://www.volvoxc.com/resources/how-to/pdf/01-23-09/TNN,%20Lubrication%20System%20Contamination%20Clea ning.pdf)

[Volvo4Skier]

Thanks for the reference to the TNN article. These are great pictures of what the internals of your engine may look like when you see those deposits on the oil filler cap. Just because the oil filler cap on other volvos looks the same as picture number 1 at the beginning of this thread does not make it normal. The engine should not have these type of deposits.

[dubdash_rallye]

I assumed this was somewhat normal too....

Mine has the same look to it and I've changed the oil ever 3k for 5+ oil changes and it looks exactly the same.

I'd do the seafoam thing, but I don't really trust it....

[PGI007]

I finally got around to checking my oil cap as well. There is a lot of dark varnishing on the neck, and the cap is clean but for black staining on the central metal strip. The dipstick also looks like picture #2, with that same dark staining at the top end. I wonder if there was a lot of crud and it originally looked the filler cap in Pic #2, but either the dealer cleaned it during the CPO prep or if it has since burned off after a couple of regular oil changes and since I switched to synthetic a couple of months ago.

I know this car had its first oil change at 10-12,000 km, but I have no history after that until it came back to the dealership at 50k km 2 years later. I would hope they changed the oil at some point, but with 50k km in 2 years it must have had a lot of highway miles which should have been good for the engine, no?

[Grundig]

Sounds like your story is very much like mine; 2005 xc70, bought 3 years old from the dealer with 52,000km. I also had my first oil change at just under 12,000 km and pretty regularly (every 12,000 km or so) after that. I've got the same disturbing varnish buildup. What to do? Well, for me I've switched to synthetic and from there I'm going to forget about it. Pretty hard to say what's normal, so the heck with it . . .

[SkagSig40]

Just an update on this engine. It is still running awesome with no problems and burns no oil! It now has 86,000 miles on it and has had German Castrol 0w30 since 46,000 miles and the used oil analysis come out with very good results and very low wear. Seems you can clean up a neglected engine and still get a lot of life out of it. These 2.5T engines seem to be pretty tough!

[Astro14]

That's good news...I've had the same experience.

The engine on the XC wasn't the cleanest when I bought it, and 68,000 miles later, it's very clean inside. Oil filler hole doesn't look that great, but it's the "canary in the coal mine"...gets dirty first, but doesn't really get the oil flow to clean it up later. I am not going to try cleaning it, I would rather not dislodge the gunk and send it into the engine, though I did clean up the cap as best I could...