4 cylinder turbo diesel engine!

[Sasquatch]

Made you look.

Who would want this?

I'd imagine 30-35 mpg and slow performance (but it is a station wagon, so who cares?).

[Mink]

In South Africa Volvo sells a four cylinder turbo-diesel 2 liter 100kw engine in the S40 and V50 station wagon with a six-speed manual gearbox. It develops the same torque (320Nm) as the T5 engine! I haven't driven it, but I believe it is VERY economical - the official consumption is 7.6/4.7 l/100km city/highway (31/50 mpg). Actually, it's the reason I visited a Volvo dealer, but before I could drive one I saw the XC70...

[billr99]

Not necessarily. I had a '96 VW Passat TDI wagon which was rated at 90 HP and something like 120ft/lb some years ago. It was actually pretty decent in regard to performance perhaps due to its 5sp manual trans. Only time I had issues was going uphill, air on and 4-5 passengers. Then it was a an absolute dog. My youngest son currently has a Jetta TDI wagon and its performance is considerably better whilst only being a bit smaller inside than the old Passat. Bottom line comment here though is that Volvo does this stuff in the EU along with VW, Audi and just about everybody else. The North American market is defintely screwing that one up by not accepting what could be a superior technology for the current economic environment.

Oh well, wouldn't be the first time that the North American car buyers and regulators have screwed themselves.

Later,

Bill

[Sasquatch]

What's with this kw and Nm stuff? Translate into HP and lb/ft please.

Don't forget that those "consumption" figures are for a smaller car. I wonder how they would be on the boat that is the V70XC.

[billr99]

What's with this kw and Nm stuff? Translate into HP and lb/ft please.

Don't forget that those "consumption" figures are for a smaller car. I wonder how they would be on the boat that is the V70XC.

Typical Yank...that stuff is that metric system crap!:D The system used by everyone but the US and Yemen.

At the time I had my '96 Passat the equivalent wagon in Volvo's line was the 855. Supposedly the interior volume of the Passat was greater than the 855, but it could not have been by much when it came to practical use. Anyway, I use to get 40-45mpg on the highway at 65-70mph. And yes, those are those little US gallons as that is my measurement system too being an expat Yank (not that I say that too loudly these days).

Anyway, the one thing that these small diesels will not get you is 0-60 times in the 6-7 sec range. I did drive a New Beetle TDI with a tuning box and it was muscular off the line but the initial turbo lag just kills the 0-30 piece of your time as well as the wheelspin once everything kind of gets motivated. Overall though if you look at the New World Order, these small diesels have some good numbers despite the current outrageous diesel fuel costs. In many cases, they beat the benefits-per-dollar-spent numbers of some of the hybrids.

Cheers,

Bill

[BLUEH20]

My first volvo was a 1983 245DL. Good vehicle--adequate fuel economy when diesel cost lest that gasoline or at least equal. Put 125,000 on the belt way and by ways around DC for 6 years.

The bigest thrill was entering the free way--heck the wagon would go from zero to sixty in about 3 days........

I also had a VW Golf Diesel 1986. The only difference in the engines was the the body they were in--both were VW's. All parts interchangeable and all labled VW.

[Willy]

Here in Begium, mostly diesel cars are sold these days. People's lives are
shortened by breathing in the fine dust particles that penetrate through
the lung tissue right into the blood.
So, IMHO, not more but less diesel engines.
Willy

[billr99]

Here in Begium, mostly diesel cars are sold these days. People's lives are
shortened by breathing in the fine dust particles that penetrate through
the lung tissue right into the blood.
So, IMHO, not more but less diesel engines.
Willy

From what I've been reading on the subject, current and coming auto diesels have taken care of this. In fact, Audi, VW, etc diesels meet all EU air quailty regs and CA regs in the US (only problem there is the sulphur content of the fuel). But you still have too many transport trucks on the road with unregulated diesels causing the health issues you mention.Coal-fired power plants aren't helping much either. Get the trucks off the road, the freight in electric trains, and clean auto diesels on the road and we would be better off than now. The real hoot :D for me is the idea of hybrid or electric cars solving anything. Seems nobody is figuring out where all this extra electric power is coming from. These same folks bitch about hydro dams, wind turbines and just about any other viable alternatives that would allow for a continuation of our current world economic structure. Of course, everybody could walk and eat grubs and that would just about solve the problem, I guess.

Later,

Bill

[Sasquatch]

...Get the trucks off the road, ...

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. (-;

[ellita]

Your dream car (diesel wagon, allegedly decent performance, with 40+ MGP) WILL be arriving in the US by 2010 (maybe even 2009?). The only problem--it will be a Subaru.

[Sasquatch]

No problem with a Subaru. It will probably be cheaper to keep up than a Volvo. The V70XC is notoriously under-engineered. I had experience with the old Subarus (pre-legacy, was it Loyale?) with lots of rusting. I think they are over that now. Now if only they could fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood in back like our old wagon. THAT was a '76 Grand Monaco with 400ci motor and it seated 6. Bring that back with some higher quality and lower gas prices, and I'd be happy. Those were the good days.

[Forkster]

I also heard that Volvo was thinking of bringing the D5 engine to North America. Is that true? Anyone?

[Willy]

I am afraid the dust problems have only just begun, and even at this moment diesel cars are still being sold without any "countermeasures".
Even so, the first medical reports now turn up about ultra-fine dust particles that almost noone can even measure, let alone do something about it :(
In some ways, older diesels are less of a problem, the emitted particles are so big that they can't enter the body, whearas the smaller particles of the modern diesel engines can (and at the same time other molecules that stick to the dust particles just come along).
I am quite sceptic about the diesel story, and economy certainly doesn't come first for me.
Willy

[Forkster]

How about they re-tune our existing engine and add a bigger turbo (larger CFM) that is 'adjustable' for performance? They could also do a weight reduction by changing heaver components for lighter/stronger materials, a larger/lighter exhaust and have the performance modes as simple as a button to push on the dash.

Reduce the weight of the wagon to 3500lbs, and if your engine gives the same horsepower with switchable performance options, you could probably get 25-30 city, 35-45mpg highway. And 15-20mpg on when you want to be naughty. :)

[dlr97]

I just test drove a 2009 VW Jetta TDI with DSG transmission; 2.0 4 cyl. turbodiesel with 140 BHP, 236 ft-lb torque. It is California certified with very low particulate output. With 3 people, AC on, 95F outside, it was getting 53 mpg at a steady 55 mph on flat roads according to the display. I would expect about 48 mpg at 60-65 mph average freeway driving. More real world acceleration than the XC70, although probably slightly slower 0-60 mph times.

Manual gearbox and a wagon version will be available, but it is smaller than the XC70 and the Haldex AWD version (available in Europe) is not going to be offered (yet) in the US. In fact only very limited numbers will be imported so most dealers are charging huge premiums.

I hope Volvo will bring a similar engine to the US. BMW for instance has a 2 liter turbodiesel that achieves 200 bhp in Euro tune.

[dlr97]

From what I've been reading on the subject, current and coming auto diesels have taken care of this. In fact, Audi, VW, etc diesels meet all EU air quailty regs and CA regs in the US (only problem there is the sulphur content of the fuel). But you still have too many transport trucks on the road with unregulated diesels causing the health issues you mention.Coal-fired power plants aren't helping much either. Get the trucks off the road, the freight in electric trains, and clean auto diesels on the road and we would be better off than now. The real hoot :D for me is the idea of hybrid or electric cars solving anything. Seems nobody is figuring out where all this extra electric power is coming from. These same folks bitch about hydro dams, wind turbines and just about any other viable alternatives that would allow for a continuation of our current world economic structure. Of course, everybody could walk and eat grubs and that would just about solve the problem, I guess.

Later,

Bill

Sulfur is no longer a problem in US Diesel fuel; all US Diesel is now ultra-low sulfur as of 2007.

On the subject of electric power: I could run an electric car for all my in-town driving just by using solar panels that are already on my roof (we only use 4/5 of the total power we generate for household electricity). Even using coal-fired plants for electric car charging would reduce CO2 output from cars by at least 50%.

The US is rich in solar and wind energy. Less land area would be required to supply 100% of current use than has been strip-mined for coal. Much of that area could be currently used land (rooftops), and some could be energy storage solar thermal plants in the southwest.

[Mink]

I'm curious to know why diesel cars aren't sold in large numbers in the USA? I think I'm right in saying they now account for more than half of all cars sold in Europe, and I suspect we're not far behind in South Africa - even though diesel is now much more expensive than gasoline. There was a time a couple of years back when a few car manufacturers refused to release diesel versions because they said our diesel fuel was too 'dirty' but apparently it's been cleaned up since because pretty much all of the major manufacturers sell turbo-diesel models now - even Honda, who resisted for a long time. Volkswagen cars have always been popular here (they're made in South Africa for both domestic sale and export, along with Mercedes, BMW, Toyota and others) and the majority seem to be TDI models these days. As you say, BMW seem to have refined the art of the diesel engine more than most. And yet it still seems to be a rarity in the USA. Why?

[Willy]

The ratio of petrol versus diesel cars in Europe depends on the fuel prices (and tax policies) in the different countries.
If you know what kind of fuel is the most economic to use, you have also found the ratio (or trend) of pertol versus diesel cars.
This is why in some countries there are less diesels (if I am not mistaken: Switserland, Austria and the Netherlands) whereas eg. in
Belgium there are a lot.
Since car manufacturers have done a lot of R&D in modern diesel technology, they lobby to have/keep the regulations and prices
so that people will want and by diesel cars.
"Ecologic" legislation lags far behind, as I mentioned before, not before 2011 or 2012 will emission reduction systems be mandatory
on diesel cars in most of the European countries (whereas my 1992 Volvo 940 petrol car "already" came with a cat!)
Willy

[goldxc70]

(snip to)The real hoot :D for me is the idea of hybrid or electric cars solving anything. Seems nobody is figuring out where all this extra electric power is coming from. These same folks bitch about hydro dams, wind turbines and just about any other viable alternatives that would allow for a continuation of our current world economic structure.

Ehhh .... all current hybrids generate their own electricity from their internal combustion engines. I don't believe that any of today's hybrids are plug-in.

If you are referring to electric cars, their electricity consumption will not be a problem as they will simply increase base load requirements. Base load is not an issue today in North America - peak load is.

[goldxc70]

Here in Begium, mostly diesel cars are sold these days. People's lives are
shortened by breathing in the fine dust particles that penetrate through
the lung tissue right into the blood.
So, IMHO, not more but less diesel engines.
Willy

Tier II emission standards will take care of particulate matter for newer diesel engines. These regulations also provide for ultra low sulpher/sulfur diesel, 15ppm, being available by 2010.

Once the new regulations are in place, all older diesels of all types should be forced to comply no matter the cost.

[Sasquatch]

Once they figure out cold fusion, electricity will be practically free, and will heat our homes, run our cars, pretty much everything.

[sjonnie]

Here in Begium, mostly diesel cars are sold these days. People's lives are
shortened by breathing in the fine dust particles that penetrate through
the lung tissue right into the blood.
So, IMHO, not more but less diesel engines.
Willy
Man, I remember the last time I was in the UK trying to walk around York, I think it was 2006, the diesel particulates made breathing outdoors horrible. Diesel can be clean technology, look at the Volkswagen engines sold over here, but you have to pay for it. Incidentally, that 4cyl 2.0L diesel in the Volkswagen Jetta produces 140hp, plenty of horsepower for everything except maybe towing.

[Miliceman]

Typical Yank...that stuff is that metric system crap!:D The system used by everyone but the US and Yemen.

Which system do they are using???

[billr99]

Which system do they are using???

Last I heard, still using Imperial.

[beowulf]

The fuel economy and the low-end torque of a 4 or 5 cylinder inline diesel engine make this a no-brainer in my book. Fuel prices are comparable at this point between Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel fuel and 93 Octane gas and when you factor in the additional longevity of diesel engines it is by far the most economical decision for the V70.

[KB3MMX]

A US Diesel option would be awesome !!

[sikbrik]

Ehhh .... all current hybrids generate their own electricity from their internal combustion engines. I don't believe that any of today's hybrids are plug-in.

If you are referring to electric cars, their electricity consumption will not be a problem as they will simply increase base load requirements. Base load is not an issue today in North America - peak load is.

I think the only point was that it's no "cleaner" than staying on gasoline, not whether we could supply the increased demand. Of course, that misses many of the other benefits of electric and doesn't consider, as you stated, that there are clean options for production and they will continue to improve - unlike internal combustion engine "technology" (<using that term loosely) which is still basically the same as it was in the 80's. :(

That said,a turbo-diesel HYBRID sounds like something I'd consider buying in a Volvo until everything has been completely electrified.

[skeith5]

My other car is a 2006 VW Jetta TDI. The best tank gave me 55MPG. I would LOVE having a diesel in my Volvo... Great performance and a rock solid engine. I've got 178k on my TDI and expect it to get me to 300k...

Scott

[MacNoob]

Surprised nobody has mentioned this:

http://www.volvocars.com/intl/campaigns/hybrid/pages/v60-plugin-hybrid.aspx

[sikbrik]

Marginally related, has anyone pondered or completed a VW 1.9 TDI swap into one of these beasts? I can get a good price on a used parts car but it would take at least 2 years to offset the swap costs vs. fuel savings. Love my volvo, don't want another VW but I like the TDI and have local biodiesel stations so I can begin to free myself of foreign oil. It just feels too complex to be worthwhile unless someone already has the roadmap.

[ColinCollier]

Sulfur is no longer a problem in US Diesel fuel; all US Diesel is now ultra-low sulfur as of 2007.

On the subject of electric power: I could run an electric car for all my in-town driving just by using solar panels (http://www.shinesolar.net) that are already on my roof (we only use 4/5 of the total power we generate for household electricity). Even using coal-fired plants for electric car charging would reduce CO2 output from cars by at least 50%.

The US is rich in solar and wind energy. Less land area would be required to supply 100% of current use than has been strip-mined for coal. Much of that area could be currently used land (rooftops), and some could be energy storage solar thermal plants in the southwest.
This is the best way to save fossil fuel and nature.. We need to make use of electric cars and try to use solar energy as fuel.. It is cheap and clean

[Swagger XC]

Somebody in our town just bought a tesla roadster. I was coming up "the grade" into town and she was on the side of the road, miles away from an outlet. My case has been proven.

[guymon]

Can't fix operator error. Their is a gauge in that thing. Because, being stuck on the side of the road in a ICE with the nearest gas station miles away, is better?

[Swagger XC]

We'll the fact that it would be easier to go to a gas station and get a can of gas vs. finding a charge station and sainting eight hours. The dash evidently gave a incorrect readout with a lot less range than the car could actually do. In reality it can only go about 70mi vs the 100 or so advertised.

[guymon]

Tesla S 85kWh, 300 miles at 55mph advertised. On a friends the lowest she seen is 200 miles driving really hard on the highway. You'd have to be really dumb to run that thing down. If you are that dumb, its only a phone call to the dealer, who will come out and help you.

[MacNoob]

I was driving around the Chicago bypass a few weeks back (in the Volvo) when I was passed by an unusual car. Finally figured out it was a Tesla S. Tried to catch up in heavy interstate traffic to get a better look but ran out of guts to speed that much. He was moving.

[Swagger XC]

It was a tesla roadster not a model s. The roadster has an advertised 200 mile range vs. the 300+ (depending on battery package) with the model s.

[guymon]

Ooops, sorry.

The roadster was really their proof of concept car. It really wasn't meant to be a daily driver. And yes the roadster was hard pressed to get the 200 miles it claimed. But it proved itself being a sharp looking FAST electric vehicle, which other car manufactures don't seem to grasp. But this is a Volvo site so I'll close this here.

[Swagger XC]

It is fast and looks good, just not practical in rural areas.

[nickbw]

Diesels are an affront to the atmosphere, their particulate emissions are far worse (for humans) than petrol and if you really do high mileages, they just might save you bucs in the short run - you will spend the savings of course on EGR problems. Why not just get a tractor?