View Full Version : Volvo association is over!
budrichard
10-04-2003, 05:26 AM
After the failure of our 99 XC http://xc70.com/cgi-bin....2;t=151 (http://xc70.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=2;t=151) , my wife has lost all confoidence in the vehicle and will be deciding on another non-Volvo to drive. I will keep the 03XC until that fails. Nothing lasts for ever in this world and change is inevitable. I have to agree with her that this type of failure is unacceptable. Without the failed parts it is impossible for me to ascertain the failure mechanism and I am trained in Root Cause analysis, particularly metalurgical failures. -Dick
picklehead
10-04-2003, 07:32 AM
Hi Dick,
Sorry to hear of this situation, I hope that Volvo attempts to do something to make this "right" for you. I know from your messages on this board that you have always been "in Volvo's camp" in terms of support and belief in their product.
Did the car give any warning sounds? When the differential gears in my wife's Jeep went bad, there was a cacaphony of noise. I know that they were constantly turning so that it was easier to notice the problem. Does the problem on your XC appear to be a "connection" point or a metal fatigue problem of a suspension part i.e. a ball joint or stabilizing bar. Thank God that you wife was not driving at highway speeds when this failure occurred.
Good luck in your new car search.
Very Respectfully,
Jim Miller
Hiro's XC
10-04-2003, 08:07 AM
Stuff happens. Glad she is ok. But I think she is over-reacting on the never drive volvo thing. Did it happen in the you P? You know nortern michigan? LONG EXPENSIVE TOW!
slender
10-04-2003, 10:24 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (budrichard @ Oct. 04 2003,05:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">my wife has lost all confoidence in the vehicle and will be deciding on another non-Volvo to drive.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
My wife had a near-miss in her Toyota Yaris today, Dick, when an imbecile ran a red light a considerable time after the priority change and narrowly missed side impacting her. It was only her presence of mind coupled to the abs system of the Yaris that saved the day. My first (private) reaction when she told me was that the Yaris does not have the side protection my Volvo has (deploying a side curtain, in particular).
My thoughts today were that my wife's next car, along with abs, driver and passenger airbags and side impact bars will have better protection in case of side-impact.
No doubt your wife's current (and quite understandable) consideration will be for a more reliable marque. Today, I would have gladly had my wife driving my slightly less reliable Volvo S80 instead of her clock-work reliable Toyota had the red-light prat been one second sooner. I`m sure you know what I mean.
Willy
10-04-2003, 11:18 AM
Hmm, isn't that a bit drastic, disposing of a car because it failed?
If my car fails I will have it repaired, I will dispose of it if it can't be repaired (or if it the cost is too high).
If you find a car that won't fail, please be so good to let us know http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/alien.gif
My wife certainly is more confident, since I failed here more than once, and until now I am allowed to stay http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Willy
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (budrichard @ Oct. 04 2003,05:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">...my wife has lost all confidence in the vehicle and will be deciding on another non-Volvo to drive. I will keep the 03XC until that fails. Nothing lasts for ever in this world and change is inevitable. I have to agree with her that this type of failure is unacceptable.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
FWIW, we know 2 owners of new pickups that had a wheel fall off. The natural reaction is to question the brand although it could happen to any car. From what I understand a car losing a wheel at speed can usually be controlled, although I hope not to ever test that theory. Good luck with whatever you choose.
budrichard
10-05-2003, 06:06 AM
Problem happened to my wife about 5 miles from home reversing out of a parking space. Wheel and brake complex completely unconnected from the front right axle. Parts holding the two together not found. I looked along the highway but could not find them. I also looked at each part removed from the vehicle. Because the vehicle came to rest on the right front axle, it was bent. Field's Volvo did all the repairs and completely picked up the costs which were well over a 1K by a quick view of their parts and labor invoice, my invoice says n/c for each item replaced. I must admit they did a fabulous job as the vehicle drives prefectly up to 95 mph where I tested it on a clear expressway. My wife really liked the S60 T5 loaner but I explained to her that S60, S80 or XC, they were all alike inside and that the added space and ground clearance in the XC is what we wanted. I have a price for a new XC replacement which is invoice- $2000 cash back if she decides on a new XC. She has to make the decision or decide to keep this one. We went over all the vehicles out on the market. She says she will look at Mercedes and Cadillac(?). The MB wagon simply does not have the ground clearance and the Cadillac is junk. She also is authoring a letter to volvo which I think is a good idea. Since the failed parts cannot be found, I told her that I cannot determine what occured. She says I sound like NASA. More to come.-Dick
Outrageous
10-05-2003, 08:44 AM
Have you ever had any service performed on the area in question--CV joint, suspension etc.? It sounds like the bolts holding the CV joint to the wheel assembly were loose and came out. I can't imagine this happening unless they hadn't been properly tightened.
I'm pleased that everything is finally working out and that no one was hurt and I can relate to how you and your wife reacted at 1st but am pleased to see that realization is not to blame all for a mishap but to figure out why it happened and to learn and to prevent it from ever happening again. Your wife's letter to Volvo will most assuredly be taken seriouly and should prompt them for further testing in safety. My 1st reactions would probably been very much like yours but I hope that I too would settle down to realize that it could be any car, any make
Sounds like a good dealership and a dealership is as important as the make if not more important.--BEST---merv
XCMark
10-06-2003, 03:51 PM
I know your wife is understandably upset, but hate to completely blame Volvo because of a bad experience. All the good Volvo provides, especially the safety factors, should warrant another look, perhaps?
Hopefully you haven't given up giving Volvo a piece of your mind, but allow them to "make it right" like another poster said.
Good luck to you!
1Lieutenant
10-07-2003, 11:40 AM
Dick,
My question to you is can the root cause of failure be determined from the facts present.
1. Multiple bolts, and possibly a fixture are missing from the suspension. These components could not be found.
2. If the wheel loss were due to component failure I suspect you would have found evidence such as sheared bolts or portions of the failed fixture remaining affixed.
This would lead me to the following possible conclusions:
1. Poor design that results in component separation and eventual failure (seems unlikely).
2. Improper installation of well designed and manufactured components with poor quality control. (seems more likely)
Since the repair has been made, I would assume that care was taken be sure all proper protocols were followed. Thus the failure should not recur.
Maybe you should swap cars with your wife.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Steve
PS My wife drives a 2001 Lexus ES300 because she could not tolerate the number of trips to the Volvo dealer to repair minor problems in her 1999 XC. I'm not sure the Lexus is as safe, but it sure is made well. NO repairs to date.
xclogan
10-07-2003, 06:59 PM
I hate to be a prude here, but bolts don't just fall out. When was the last maintenance done on the wheel/axle involved? Had anything happened recently prior to the incident (pothole, went of pavement, hit speedbump too hard, hit curb, anything? Even something insigificant?) Oil change recently or tire change/rotation/maint?
The wheel on my pick-up truck almost came off one time but that was because when the spare tire/wheel was put on the bolts were not tightened down all the way. Fortunatly a friend noticed the wobbling prior to it coming off.
Did the car drive funny or different just prior to the incident?
Something must have happened just prior, I mean you don't just drive a car into a parking spot and come out later and parts are missing. If they had come out before there would have been noticeable wearing somewhere, and a difference in the feel/handling of the vehicle. Could someone have been messing with your car or trying to steal parts or (heaven forbid) sabotage? I hate to say these things, but something had to cause a failure somewhere. I have seen a Volvo (an 850) come into a dealership with the front wheels detached before. But that was after the driver hit the concrete strips that are in parking lots to keep one from going in too far. And she had to have hit it really hard to pop out the front wheels.
From what I have read here and in the other post...there is something missing somewhere... I am not pointing a finger at your wife or you...but sit back and read the story....something is missing... (other than the parts!http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
SpudRacer
10-07-2003, 09:23 PM
I was trying to keep silent, but I'm afraid I must agree with XCLogan. I think we are not getting the whole story.
Tom
Low Tide
10-08-2003, 07:57 AM
As I read down the list.... I was thinking...well, exactly what XClogon posted... so chalk me up in the failure skeptic column. Sometimes scientific objectivity just fails to "measure" up to other potential externalities driving the decision-making process. I'm sure your NASA chum Sean O'Keefe would agree... in fact, I know he would agree.
xclogan
10-08-2003, 07:22 PM
In thinking about this a little further...
What exactly came loose? The the whole wheel come off? And what was disconnected? I do not understand, nor do I believe that the some or any of the following can just "come off":
The shock/strut assembly
The A-Arm
The steering tie-rod
The driveshaft
The brake caliper and connection hoses
The ABS connections and apparatus
etc...
If all of that came loose and the wheel/tire/brakes where just laying there then someone had to remove all of that. I have replaced my McPherson strut upper mount before, so I have seen and been in there. I believe I can safely state that all the things mentioned above are impossible to just fall off and dissappear! Someone had to do it, and I doubt that the car could have been driven with the wheel "loose" as it has been stated... If the drive shaft was disconnected then the driver WOULD have noticed it, not only in the feel of the car but in the noise it would have made as well...
Better do some more research... It is not the car or Volvo's fault... It is a person... There is no other explanation... And if there is... I would like to see it first hand...
1Lieutenant
10-12-2003, 06:21 PM
No response from Dick.....I am a bit suprised. I really would like to know the disposition of this case.
Steve
methos
10-12-2003, 08:24 PM
Right front could easily go un-noticed when approaching and getting into the car. Maybe someone followed her into the parking lot and started to steal a key component but didn't have enough time to finish the job... http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif I've had parts stolen off one of my Volvos before... http://xc70.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
budrichard
10-15-2003, 06:42 AM
As I previously stated the wheel/brake caliber assembly was completely disconnected from the front axle assembly. Since I was not there and did not observe the vehicle and it was flatbeded, I can only repeat what my wife told me . She drove to a restaurant and parked normally with 3 people in the car with her. Was inside having lunch for about an hour with 3 other people. When she came out and started to back out of the parking space, a noise was heard and the car felt 'funny'. On observation, they all observed the wheel at an angle outward to the vehicle, obviouly it could not be driven. The tow truck operator told my wife that the axle had broken. When I obserbed the vehicle at Field's Volvo the next day, they had removed the axle and assemblies from the engine but the wheel/brake was still on the vehicle as they recieved it. Whatever assembly holds the axle to the wheel was GONE, bolts and all! They had never seen anything like, and without the parts, neither they nor I could could do any type of investigation. I have a minor in metalurgy long with my degrees in Nuclear Engineering and am trained in Root Cause Investigations and have conducted many including the failure of a 4 MWe 16 cylinder Cooper Diesel where the connecting rod came through the side of the engine. I went back to the parking lot. looking for parts and only found a rubber bushing marked Volvo. I also drove the roads where the vehicle went past and could not find any parts.
I am mystified, like anyone else. I would find it hard to believe that someone was cruising looking for a Volvo part and set to work in the parking lot to remove it?
The axle was bent and all the parts from the engine to the wheel assembly were replaced.
THE ASSEMBLY WAS MISSING! If you chose not to believe me that is your perogative but don't cast dispersions on my veracity.. -Dick
BillAileo
10-15-2003, 08:30 AM
Dick,
I don't think anyone intended to cast dispersions on your veracity. I for one really appreciate hearing about both what is known about the incident as well as speculation about what might have contributed, e.g., aborted parts theft. This really is a situation that any XC70 owner would want to know more about. Please let us know should there be further developments.
Bill
littlewaywelt
10-15-2003, 08:37 AM
Dick,
I agree completely with Bill. Please keep us aprised of any developments & communication from the dealer or VCNA regarding what happened.
1Lieutenant
10-15-2003, 03:08 PM
Dick,
I don't think anyone is doubting your integrity. What we find puzzling is the absence of a key structural component of the suspension assembly. Without this part, the car CANNOT be driven. Our question is how did the car get to the parking lot with the part in place and have it disappear over lunch? Part failure would result in some component present for evaluation.
What would be your objective analysis if you were evaluating the vehicle without your wife's explanation.
Steve
xclogan
10-15-2003, 03:30 PM
The Straw that broke the camels back THEORY - Now read this before anyone jumps to any conclusion...
Assuming that the drive shaft was the only thing that failed... Then, yes the main question here is what was the root cause and when did the "break" occur. Did she notice anything different before getting out of the car?
If not then it had to have happened upon arrival or during lunch. It is remotely possible that the drive shaft cracked and "did not come apart" until the car stopped (the camel theory). I have heard of things not breaking until stopping. But that as unlikely as it sounds may be the only explanation. The only other thing I can think of (and nothing wrong with this or pointing any fingers) is that the driver hit a curb or something similar when stopping and popped out the drive shaft on that side. As I stated above I have seen this before when someone tried to drive over a curb or speed bump too hard (not necessarily too fast) and simply popped out the shafts.
That to me is the most logical explanation, but it still does not answer why the bolts were missing, they would have stayed on the vehicle or been nearby -IF- they had come loose...
I am not doubting your word here, just trying to make sense of it all. If you look at the assembly there are only a few explanations...
So am I right in assuming that the Brake lines, A-Arm, Steering Tie-Rod, and other connecting parts did not come loose or separate, it was only the drive shaft?
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